Taking liveries to court for rent - no contracts

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khadijah

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Hiya All,

I wonder if anyone can help; Im enquiring for my YO who is a very lovely and very old lady. As my husband has had some experience of county court she asked me for some advice on wether she can pursue a livery who owes a substantial amount of rent, the horse was removed by owner and put on loan and since then YO has received a couple of random £50 or so payments.


She does not make anyone sign contracts, but she does have proof of money owed as this livery has sent a couple of letters saying sorry about owed money and my horse has been moved to go on loan etc etc.

Shes a cracking YO never ever asks for rent, if someone genuinely cant pay due to difficulty she would just patiently wait. The reason she wants to pursue this lady is that she appears to be a con artist who has done this kind of thing before and YO is furious. This woman was so dishonest she was even claiming against someone for a back injury whilst riding someone's horse on a weekly basis !

I said I can pick up an application for court for her and she could at least give it a try but she will have to pay the fee, which she's happy to.


Has anyone experienced this kind of situation, where there are no contracts ?

Also the YO thinks that the woman knows what she is doing and by sending a couple of sporadic payments that this means she is not legally able to pursue her ..... not sure about this but I do get what she means.


what do you guys think ?


thanks in advance !
 
They do have a contract but it is a verbal one and so she needs to amass as much evidence as she can that it existed, and the terms of it. If they have made sporadic payments, that evidences the existence of the contract, and if there is any accompanying letter which tells her it is to cover a certain period, that will evidence the rate at which she is charging them. Any other liveries on similar terms will be a kind of evidence that she allows people to use her facilities in return for regular payment.
The thing she has to bear in mind though, is if she does take them to court, and the court finds in her favour, she will still have to enforce the judgement. If they have no moey that will involve earnings orders, or bailiffs, and if they have nothing, she will get....nothing. Just so she knows the risks, I hope she is succesful though, too many people cut and run.

First stage is to give them the opportunity to pay in full - send a recorded delivery letter, setting out in detail what the debt consists of (dates, rates, less payments made to date) and a reasonable deadline by which she should have received payment IN FULL otherwise she will seek to recover the debt through the County Court.
 
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As above there is a contract - just not written down. The small claims court process is relatively simple - with a friend she could work through that at little cost (and not much to loose).
Winning in court doesn't guarantee cash, as noted above, but the ex livery will have to prove to court they can't afford to repay your friend.
 
Thank you all so much for your replies, thats a great help. I think she would like to take it further just to stand up against this thief ... even if the poor thing doesn't get what's rightfully hers.

At least by taking it further she can really find out if this person is skint or just trying it on !

She will be very grateful to you all thanks so much again !
 
This was something that was very much like a case I had.

A so called friend (A) had a horse (a lovely Anglo Arab)on loan from another good friend (B) of mine. (A) lost her job so I moved the horse for her, this time she paid me for doing the job. (A) moved to new job and then another job, I went down to pick the horse up and have him at my yard for what (A) wanted 2-4weeks. She could not find another job so I kept the horse (B) happy with this. I kept getting txt's but no money, I had the horse throughout a winter I had the vet twice to him,he was meant to have a passport so when I found out he did not I insisted that on was bought. His vaccination history was unknown so these had to be restarted. Fortunately the owner paid for these to be done.

When I asked her for the rent she owed me I kept getting tall stories about she would send it and then she said she had lost her cheque book. (B) decided to take her horse back and not allow (A) to continue to have him on loan.

I was lucky that when I collected the horse I also had all his tack and rugs. These I still have and intend to use what fits my horses and I will then sell anything else. The advice to sell the excess has come from my Solicitor.

Putting a case together took me to talk to others that (A) had worked for, all saying the same thing, she owed money for livery and cheques that she had given them had bounced.

I will never get the full amount she owes me but the horse is now on loan to a very nice lady who is really cares for him.

Verbal or written a contract is law so I would persue with anyway the YO can to get her money.
 
I think you have to give them 28 days to pay up or else. make sure you ask for the full total by the given date and then file a small claim. It is a damn nuisance but these people just keep doing this so it helps other people wether you get the money back or not. Wish her the best of luck from me
 
I am sorry but the problem is not the lack of a contract. The problem is that the person is paying off the debt. I know it may not seem like it ,but if they are not denying the debt and making payments ,regardless of how small or infrequent your friend will have a tough time in court. In the final outcome ,even if the court finds in your favour,what are they going to do? The debtor will claim that she has been trying to pay off the debt to the best of her ability and can do no more.The court may impose some ridiculously low monthly payment ,which will eventualy cease and then you have to apply to send in the baliffs,who may get a few quid once or twice,but they will also eventualy give up.
 
I think it is important to lay down a marker that you won't be defrauded in this way, word soon gets around in small rural communities. My contractor who is basically a farmers son with a tractor has lost lots of money because of non payment, and I keep saying to him just take one of them to court, the rest will soon decide they would rather pay.
 
The other thing you/ your friend could/ should do is warn others of this lady - I had similar and I posted on facebook and preloved and told everyone ONLY that if a lady which XYZ horses came looking for new livery they should seriously consider taking a large deposit. I did not comment on what she did or did not do (that can get you into trouble and be argued with!)
The lady that ripped me off was well know to lots of people I've spoken to since but sadly I had no warning in advance.
 
Agree with Mike, even if she got a court* order in her favour (simply a decision from the court to say the money is owed and that it should be paid - you already know this), it doesn't necessarily mean that the other person will pay the money back any quicker or at all. £10 a month might be all that the court says needs to be paid. Some people are just very good at avoiding paying money. Depends on how much is owed if it is worth the hassle of pursuing it.
 
Excellent advice im on my phone at mo so hard to read it properly will check later when on pc

But I def agree with making an example of non payers because who on earth would ever want to have their name in court !!
 
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