Taking shoes off for a brief period?

[Michen]

Long thread in vet but Boggle went lame with suspected bruising 5 weeks ish ago. Vet though bone type bruising (seems suspectible to it conformationally and suffered from it two summers ago diagnosed on MRI). I stupidly ran him on harder ground than ideal, and despite always being so careful with him clearly got complacent He has good thick soles and decent frogs.

He was ready to resume steady work nearly two weeks ago but I decided to give him longer with the intention that I would get back on this weekend and spend a month or so walking. He’s now sound and came sound very quickly after some box rest.

I’m considering taking his shoes off and will discuss with my vet but thought some experiences on here would be good. I would fully intend, all being well, for him to be reshod mid - end of August again to pick up some more events and start autumn hunting.

I do not envisage him remaining barefoot, I never managed to get him quite comfortable when upping the roadwork when he spent 7 months ish barefoot before, our hacking stops us from building up the roadwork gradually and he did become footsore and wear too much hoof, plus create very upright feet which was not ideal. He’s jolly and bouncy and occasionally ended up sore the next day. It may be different this time around so I’m not entirely ruling it out but equally I prefer to lightly stud for eventing if we do pick up some more events later in the season.

I’m unsure if 8 weeks is long enough to really be of any benefit to have a break from shoes?

I’m also a little concerned re “upsetting” his feet any further with the bruising, though I would think that if the ground gets hard again he would be better without the concussive effects of shoes, if it was indeed deep bone bruising.

Thoughts appreciated, he’s been cleared by vet for full work but i want to stick to walking for the next month or so a) to be super cautious and b) he’s worked hard over winter and spring and some chilled time will do him good.

He walks immediately well out of shoes and is does have to cross a very stoney car park to get to the field but it’s unlikely to cause much of a problem for him, so there shouldn’t be a difficult “transition” period so to speak. I’ve emailed my vet for his thoughts but lots of experience on here too so all opinions welcome!! He’s coming to the end of a four week cycle so need to decide fairly quick.

Thanks

Couple of recent ish pics of the cool fella for a less boring post!!

 

[Melody Grey]

You'll never hear on objection to trying barefoot from me! Did you experiment with using Hoof Boots before when you say he was not growing enough Hoof? Although 8 weeks isn't a huge time, I think you could see some small benefit since potentially- assuming that might be two trims worth of growth to play with, you might see some modest changes?

 

[Brownmare]

I'm not sure where you are but if you are anywhere near the Midlands I would advise getting in touch with Mark Johnson, he is an amazing farrier and barefoot trimmer and has done quite a lot if experimenting with all sorts of composite / plastic / glue on type alternative shoes to help the more sensitive types or those that have very specific needs. Even if you aren't in his area he may be willing to discuss Boggle with you and your own farrier.

 

[Michen]

You'll never hear on objection to trying barefoot from me! Did you experiment with using Hoof Boots before when you say he was not growing enough Hoof? Although 8 weeks isn't a huge time, I think you could see some small benefit since potentially- assuming that might be two trims worth of growth to play with, you might see some modest changes?

No, I didn't. Reason being there iss a very steep and slippery grass hill to get out of the yard and some throughout the hacking routes, which I felt would be lethal with hoof boots. I did look into some options and thought Scoot boots might be the best option, but then he started eventing and I wanted to stud anyway after he slipped a few times so it seemed best to shoe!

 

[Michen]

I would probably not have him trimmed, I'd be interested to see what he does with his hooves himself in that time, unless of course he's not doing enough road work to wear them down!

 

[Goldenstar]

My short shoeing break is usually twelve weeks .
But G did a eight week one early winter last year it did the feet particularly the frogs a deal of good .
Of course you don’t need to stop work so they can maintain a level of fitness .
I do have boots for road work on short breaks .

 

[Annagain]

I'm no expert in this field but can't see that trying would do any harm - they can go back on at any time if you feel it's necessary.

 

[lauracwd2]

Depending on just how slippy your grass hill is you might find no issues with hoof boots and it does give you another option if the roadwork is causing an issue with hoof wear. I personally have had no slipping issues in our hoof boots on all sorts of surfaces including grass. I was using scoots very successfully but they no longer fit my horses hind feet as they have changed shape so have recently moved to Renegade Vipers and am finding the grip just as good - they got a thorough test on all sorts of terrain at a recent trec comp.

 

[JJS]

I’m a ‘horses for courses’ person where shoeing is concerned, but I always keep mine barefoot if I’m able (current four are all unshod). I honestly feel it does them a world of good, even if you’re only able to do it for a short time. I’d definitely give it a go and see how you get on.

 

[Michen]

Right cool thanks guys, actually spoke to my vet now and tbh I knew my answer already but clearly needed a bit of hand holding.

Going to get the shoes off and see how we go.

Any suggestions on fancy new products to magically aid the process? I have some red horse stronghorn stuff somewhere I’ll probably utilise!

 

[vmac66]

My mare has recently had laminitis. My farrier took her shoes off the fronts followed by the hinds a week later. She came off 2 weeks box rest completely sound, barefoot didn't bother her at all. She now has scoot boots all round as, she wears her feet down quicker than they can regrow. I pretty sure that studs can be fitted to scoots. I'm planning on keeping her barefoot, her feet are working as they should. Her fro

 

[paddy555]

Any suggestions on fancy new products to magically aid the process? I have some red horse stronghorn stuff somewhere I’ll probably utilise!

yes boots. I cannot see any point in riding even at a walk for 8 weeks a newly de shod horse just to then put the shoes back on. You only need one set back and then you will have to do something. Many horses walk well immediately out of shoes. Come back in 2 weeks and they may not be so great.
If you use a boot with good grip he may well be fine on steep grass. You cannot tell until you do it. Once he has a chance to learn he could do great. You could walk him in hand down steep wet grass a couple of times so he can learn. It is a learning process going down wet grass in boots. Some are excellent at it. They have to learn to slip and to control it. I have ridden behind a booted horse who appeared to slip everywhere on wet grass. I asked the rider how he coped. He wasn't even aware it was slipping, the horse had it totally sorted himself so it is worth a try. That horse was my arab stallion and he didn't do walk so he was a good example.

If you use boots for 8 weeks then you will have an idea if it is possible to continue in boots rather than shoe even for some of the time.
Best boots for traction are scoots and renegades. As you are talking about deep bruising I would use renegades as the soles are much thicker and you will have a lot more protection as you are walking or even trotting over stones. Another reason to boot rather than barefoot is if there is even the slightest doubt over deep bruising. If you boot you could more or less believe further bruising was not the cause. If he is barefoot you won't be able to be totally sure.

 

[Michen]

yes boots. I cannot see any point in riding even at a walk for 8 weeks a newly de shod horse just to then put the shoes back on. You only need one set back and then you will have to do something. Many horses walk well immediately out of shoes. Come back in 2 weeks and they may not be so great.
If you use a boot with good grip he may well be fine on steep grass. You cannot tell until you do it. Once he has a chance to learn he could do great. You could walk him in hand down steep wet grass a couple of times so he can learn. It is a learning process going down wet grass in boots. Some are excellent at it. They have to learn to slip and to control it. I have ridden behind a booted horse who appeared to slip everywhere on wet grass. I asked the rider how he coped. He wasn't even aware it was slipping, the horse had it totally sorted himself so it is worth a try. That horse was my arab stallion and he didn't do walk so he was a good example.

If you use boots for 8 weeks then you will have an idea if it is possible to continue in boots rather than shoe even for some of the time.
Best boots for traction are scoots and renegades. As you are talking about deep bruising I would use renegades as the soles are much thicker and you will have a lot more protection as you are walking or even trotting over stones. Another reason to boot rather than barefoot is if there is even the slightest doubt over deep bruising. If you boot you could more or less believe further bruising was not the cause. If he is barefoot you won't be able to be totally sure.

yes boots. I cannot see any point in riding even at a walk for 8 weeks a newly de shod horse just to then put the shoes back on. You only need one set back and then you will have to do something. Many horses walk well immediately out of shoes. Come back in 2 weeks and they may not be so great.
If you use a boot with good grip he may well be fine on steep grass. You cannot tell until you do it. Once he has a chance to learn he could do great. You could walk him in hand down steep wet grass a couple of times so he can learn. It is a learning process going down wet grass in boots. Some are excellent at it. They have to learn to slip and to control it. I have ridden behind a booted horse who appeared to slip everywhere on wet grass. I asked the rider how he coped. He wasn't even aware it was slipping, the horse had it totally sorted himself so it is worth a try. That horse was my arab stallion and he didn't do walk so he was a good example.

If you use boots for 8 weeks then you will have an idea if it is possible to continue in boots rather than shoe even for some of the time.
Best boots for traction are scoots and renegades. As you are talking about deep bruising I would use renegades as the soles are much thicker and you will have a lot more protection as you are walking or even trotting over stones. Another reason to boot rather than barefoot is if there is even the slightest doubt over deep bruising. If you boot you could more or less believe further bruising was not the cause. If he is barefoot you won't be able to be totally sure.

Can see your point. As expected he bounded out of them this evening straight over rocky hardcore but proceeded to have a hoon in the field so will see how he goes. I’ll measure him up for some but imagine it’ll be tricky with his feet changing shape so he may need some forgiving ones like cavallo but never been keen on them for staying put and rubbing.

I’m not fussed what he does, he can sit in the field for a few months but he’s already making up his own fun so mentally will probably benefit from doing something.

Re bruising, the vet doesn’t think it’s sole bruising- more concussion- so being barefoot and treading on a stone etc shouldn’t affect this?

 

[paddy555]

Can see your point. As expected he bounded out of them this evening straight over rocky hardcore but proceeded to have a hoon in the field so will see how he goes. I’ll measure him up for some but imagine it’ll be tricky with his feet changing shape so he may need some forgiving ones like cavallo but never been keen on them for staying put and rubbing.

I’m not fussed what he does, he can sit in the field for a few months but he’s already making up his own fun so mentally will probably benefit from doing something.

Re bruising, the vet doesn’t think it’s sole bruising- more concussion- so being barefoot and treading on a stone etc shouldn’t affect this?

Cavallos would be my last choice. I would go for some good riding boots. If you get him trimmed, fit either vipers or renegade classics and then get a rasp. All you have to do is run the rasp around like an emery board every couple of weeks to keep them in shape.
If you don't like renegades then you could use easyboot gloves. They have a reasonably thick sole and you could put a pad in. I have found renegades have better grip on wet grass but if all you want to do is walk around roads then they would be great boots.

I have read some of your posts re B's lameness/feet etc. With someone who may have concussion, bruising or in fact anything you describe I would be wrapping his feet in cottonwool and I wouldn't want him treading on a stone. He is not a conditioned barefoot horse. He is a horse with shoes, who may or may not have a problem with concussion/bruising and who is going to take a while to transition to having better feet.
If he was mine I would also be careful on a stoney car park.

I would be very very careful about "upsetting" his feet for a few weeks until you see how he gets on.

 

[Michen]

Cavallos would be my last choice. I would go for some good riding boots. If you get him trimmed, fit either vipers or renegade classics and then get a rasp. All you have to do is run the rasp around like an emery board every couple of weeks to keep them in shape.
If you don't like renegades then you could use easyboot gloves. They have a reasonably thick sole and you could put a pad in. I have found renegades have better grip on wet grass but if all you want to do is walk around roads then they would be great boots.

I have read some of your posts re B's lameness/feet etc. With someone who may have concussion, bruising or in fact anything you describe I would be wrapping his feet in cottonwool and I wouldn't want him treading on a stone. He is not a conditioned barefoot horse. He is a horse with shoes, who may or may not have a problem with concussion/bruising and who is going to take a while to transition to having better feet.
If he was mine I would also be careful on a stoney car park.

I would be very very careful about "upsetting" his feet for a few weeks until you see how he gets on.

I have never heard anyone say the gloves are a good option for a horse just out of shoes as they require such a precise fit (Ester the exception as she seems to have got away with gloves from the word go!).

He has good frogs, digital cushion, good soles. Although he grew feet with less than ideal conformation when barefoot, and he did go footy when I couldn’t gradually up the road work rather than a sudden longer hack, he spent 8 months in full work without shoes and did well considering. That included hacking over all terrain, xc schooling, jumping. The downfall was when I upped the roadwork and didn’t get the hoof growth to match. Or we went for an exciting hack away from home and he jogged a lot on the road etc. He’s 7 and has spent 17 months of his life in shoes so I’d say he’s more of a barefoot horse than a shod one!

We can only suspect what caused the lameness, but he returned to soundness quickly albeit I obviously panicked and thought he was going to die!!

My vet is fully supportive of taking off the shoes and feels the less concussion the better and the more he can utilise his natural shock absorbers the better too now that he has come sound and remained sound despite plenty of field antics.

It may be that this time I manage to get things perfect and he doesn’t need re shoeing at all- who knows.. nothing is set in stone here.

 

[paddy555]

I have put several horses straight into gloves from shoes. You can use a 6mm pad. Hire a fit kit to get the size. I am sure it will all turn out well.

Good luck, I look forward to reading about his progress.

 

[Melody Grey]

I’ve only ever used Cavallos but I would recommend them, particularly for someone starting out with boots. I used them intending for them to be a starting point but haven’t found the need to go into anything else 3 yrs on! In my experience the grip is good, they’re hard wearing, they stay on faultlessly, cheap new and readily available second hand. They’re not the most elegant boot granted, but I feel there’s a lot going for them.

 

[tristar]

easyboot gloves for me, so easy to put on and off, i would boot in pref

we have all sorts of boots here, the best are gloves and the boas are pretty easy to deal with,the scoots got the straps eaten and are enough to give me a hernia putting on and off

i once bought some cavallos but returned them, they were like buckets on the feet

 

[Michen]

I keep eyeing up the Swiss gallopers!

 

[Remi'sMum]

I love my Scoots and have thin-ish pads in them which don’t affect the fit. I don’t need to use them all that often anymore. Mine is 8 months out of shoes and his feet have changed loads. I didn’t start to see significant changes till the 2-3 month mark.

 

[Michen]

I love my Scoots and have thin-ish pads in them which don’t affect the fit. I don’t need to use them all that often anymore. Mine is 8 months out of shoes and his feet have changed loads. I didn’t start to see significant changes till the 2-3 month mark.

Thanks! Did they fit the feet throughout the changes or need to be precise?
I’m weirdly excited the shoes are off, so if it seems there are big changes I’m totally not opposed to keeping them off for longer or entirely, if I want to do an event or two then there’s a couple where everything bar xc is on a surface re slippage. if I can find some really good hoof boots I wonder if they’d be useable for hunting over specific ground etc.

 

[Slightlyconfused]

Mine had cavello, did everything in them no problem.
I treated him to the treks when they came out and they are so much better than the older style.


You can get studs to put in them. He had a studded pair for wet/mud conditions and they were fine walking on the bit of road to get to the Bridle ways.

I'm eyeing up the scoots for my big spotty.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

It may suit, may not. Worth a try for sure!

My gelding had a break from shoes for 10 weeks (may of been longer) while he had a op and then was turned away. Vet and farrier said it was was worth a try as his feet aren’t great. His hoofs got worse and didn’t grow a single mm in all that time, my farrier and vet were gob smacked specially for a cob. In the end he had to be shod even though he was turned away.. on vets recommendations. My vet said poor hinds (such as if they don’t cope well unshod) can lead to suspensory, ligament issues long term which was what he originally had. It does make me wonder, not to scare you!

On the other hand my other gelding has been barefoot a month and more than happy, hoofs look great, and he has always been fully shod for the last 6 years.

 

[Remi'sMum]

Thanks! Did they fit the feet throughout the changes or need to be precise?
I’m weirdly excited the shoes are off, so if it seems there are big changes I’m totally not opposed to keeping them off for longer or entirely, if I want to do an event or two then there’s a couple where everything bar xc is on a surface re slippage. if I can find some really good hoof boots I wonder if they’d be useable for hunting over specific ground etc.

I’ve got away with the same pair throughout. I thought we might need to go down a size but in fact haven’t needed to. I Only use them in front but they’re so easy to put on and off. I believe you can get studs for them? A lot will boil down to hoof shape as to what suits though

 

[DirectorFury]

What size hoof is he @Michen ? I've got a pair of size 6 Swiss Galoppers sat at the house you're welcome to try on him for a few months as M isn't using them and they're just gathering dust!
I've also got a pair of the Floating Boots (I think size M2) going spare until she has shoes off again if you wanted to give them a try on different surfaces.

 

[Goldenstar]

Frankly I dont greatly like boots and only use them for gentle road work .
I have four horses working lightly barefoot atm and what I would say it’s impossible to say what your horse will do because they are all so different .
I love the feeling of doing flatwork on a Bf horse is the nicest feeling all quiet and just different .
If I only did dressage I would never shoe .
My horses get forage plus performance balancer and they grow about 7mm of horn a month in summer I know this because I am sad I measure it when it gets cut off .
So assuming you get say 5 which most horses do you can easily work out how long it will take to get to the nail holes being grown out that’s when in my experiance you start to see real change for the better .

 

[ester]

yup and same size- I think that's the more abnormal bit- that and they were ok on a bullnosed hoof albeit we weren't travelling at speed (when he has lost one I think it's usually been from an over reach and popped them off) I think from before they weren't the right size for B though.

You know what I think of cavallos

hoof armor?

Some one on here did use gloves on their haffy hunting over flinty ground successfully. I wouldnt' have wanted though TBF- he still moves differently in them to bare and would definitely have needed to try the muller tape along with the power straps. The trouble is once you've lost one it can't grip so well on a then muddy hoof.

Scoots I'd want to rasp the break over on, now people have had them for longer they don't seem to stand up to the same mileage as renegades/easyboots though.

 

[SusieT]

Without a doubt, I would leave shoes on - he is just sound, making a change now is far more likely to muddy the waters (If he goes lame again, is it bruising, will it settle in a few weeks in shoes etc. etc.) If he stays sound and you're keen for a break, take them off when the ground is a bit softer you know he was 'reliably' sound before you removed the shoes so any lameness can be evaluated with that in mind

 

[HashRouge]

Without a doubt, I would leave shoes on - he is just sound, making a change now is far more likely to muddy the waters (If he goes lame again, is it bruising, will it settle in a few weeks in shoes etc. etc.) If he stays sound and you're keen for a break, take them off when the ground is a bit softer you know he was 'reliably' sound before you removed the shoes so any lameness can be evaluated with that in mind

She's already taken then off

 

[paddy555]

Scoots I'd want to rasp the break over on, now people have had them for longer they don't seem to stand up to the same mileage as renegades/easyboots though.

sorry but don't agree. The scoots have the same break over as gloves and renegades. There is nothing wrong with the breakover and I am not sure if you could rasp it back on the scoots. They stand up to more mileage than the gloves, and I have found that they would outlast renegade classics by about 3 to 1 on road use. (don't know how long the vipers last)

the only reason scoots may not be top of my list for Boggle is that the sole is thinner and more flexible