Talented yet tricky

[charlotte0916]

Hi all,

Slightly loosing the will to live with horses atm after having what’s been described by a number of friends as the worst luck they’ve ever seen buying a horse!

Basically I keep circling round as to whether I should be looking at selling her.

We’ve had ulcers, allergic reactions to the medication, cellulitis, multiple kicks, terrible manners, heaps of anxiety generally, many xrays, and an abscess.

Our latest problem is that we moved to a small, quiet yard from a livery which is lovely for her - and suits her better - but a bit lonely for me. Only one other horse (there were two when we moved) and she is now happy on individual turnout (or at least not stressy) but the YO wants to be able to ride in the day and so wants to leave her on the yard by herself.

I’ve got her from panicking and massive separation anxiety to coming to the yard by herself quietly and mostly okay if the other one leaves and I’m with her but I think being left in by herself will be a bridge too far. I don’t know what to do short of trying to acclimatise her to it gradually but will have to rely on the yard owner as I can’t get there from work in the middle of the day and she’s have to go on ulcer meds again to be sure they don’t flare up with the stress.

I can’t see to find a solution with this mare and loosing the will to live. She is talented and has a lot to recommend her when in work but I’m still finding it all difficult because I had niggles about whether we totally clicked as personalities when I first brought her anyway and all these trials haven’t done a heap to improve that. WWYD?

 

[paddy555]

why would you want to keep her? you haven't said anything nice about her so far. She is talented but so are many. So, what made you buy her and what things about her do you love (not like but love) and would really miss.
If there aren't any or many it sounds as if you are not a good match and may be better going your separate ways.

From what you describe I don't see that you could leave this sort of stressy mare alone whilst the YO rides so what would the solution be?

 

[[59668]]

Can you move to a livery yard that is more suited to her? You might find she is a different horse if she is happy

 

[cauda equina]

Could you look for a little calm companion eg from a charity?

 

[charlotte0916]

why would you want to keep her? you haven't said anything nice about her so far. She is talented but so are many. So, what made you buy her and what things about her do you love (not like but love) and would really miss.
If there aren't any or many it sounds as if you are not a good match and may be better going your separate ways.

From what you describe I don't see that you could leave this sort of stressy mare alone whilst the YO rides so what would the solution be?

She is very honest to ride, safe, sensible generally and talented on the flat and jumping. She doesn’t set my soul on fire though truth be told but keep doubting whether that’s the pure lack of riding we’ve had since she’s been with me!
She also has a huge personality which swings between being sweet and funny in doses to wildly obnoxious and somewhat dangerous.
I’m doubting whether she’d be better as she comes into more work or whether it’s a fundamental personality clash. Trying to get her into work with management she likes however is proving the tricky part!

 

[charlotte0916]

Can you move to a livery yard that is more suited to her? You might find she is a different horse if she is happy

I moved her a month ago and she’s definitely much happier at this new one.
She’s a hard candidate to please though - doesn’t like being in at all, is a nutter in poor weather when out, doesn’t love being on individual turnout but keeps being kicked because she has poor equine social skills. She also doesn’t do well with movement/busyness on the yard but can’t be left by herself.

 

[charlotte0916]

Could you look for a little calm companion eg from a charity?

I’m considering that option but honestly a bit worried about her questionable equine social skills. Everything she’s been with she’s either annoyed no end and ended up kicked - even through fencing!

If she did get on that would be super but not sure if it’s mad getting a second horse when having one has gone quite so badly.

 

[cauda equina]

If you rehomed one from a charity you could send it back if it didn't work out
A little chilled-out non-threatening pony might make all the difference to her

 

[charlotte0916]

The saga continues with this mare today, I’m at my wits end! She’s now moved right next to the two mini companions at the yard to test that theory. Previously they shared a gateway but are now sharing a tape fence line on 2 sides so she can always be close to them.

This did not stop her being an idiot for the entire time YO was out hacking today. Cartwheels and galloping around the field - she is still recovering from ligament damage too ?‍

In the stable she flies around if the other mare leaves so that’s not a safe option either.

Going to try putting her in a different stable where she can see the minis as a last ditch attempt but given the results when she is sharing the same fence line with them I’m not holding out much hope.

Gin needed.

 

[Antw23uk]

That's my worst nightmare of a horse. I just wouldn't have one like that, she sounds like she is making you miserable! This is supposed to be fun. The 'excuse' she is talented isn't enough, if you were earning big money off her or flying round 2* tracks or something equally talented then by all means put up with it but there are plenty of horses out there that work well on the flat and pop a jump just like her, but without the drama!

Really feel for you

 

[charlotte0916]

That's my worst nightmare of a horse. I just wouldn't have one like that, she sounds like she is making you miserable! This is supposed to be fun. The 'excuse' she is talented isn't enough, if you were earning big money off her or flying round 2* tracks or something equally talented then by all means put up with it but there are plenty of horses out there that work well on the flat and pop a jump just like her, but without the drama!

Really feel for you

Sadly mine too! Appreciate the sympathy, it’s nice to feel a bit less alone/like it’s my fault in this total nightmare. At this point it’s honestly putting me off horses. I don’t really know what to do next at this point - hard to sell a horse like her.

 

[Upthecreek]

What set-up did she come from and was she happy there? It sounds like a really busy yard is too much for her, but the current yard is too quiet as there just aren’t enough horses for her to always have company. Horses like this are tricky to manage and there isn’t always an easy solution. The current set-up doesn’t sound ideal and I think you’d have to be very careful if you get her a companion. She’ll either bond so closely to it she won’t want to leave it or kick the living daylights out of it if it’s not exactly the right match for her. Being in consistent work may well help her, but it doesn’t sound like you’ve had that option. Is she talented enough to sell to a professional who would maybe have the facilities to manage her?

 

[Caol Ila]

I moved her a month ago and she’s definitely much happier at this new one.
She’s a hard candidate to please though - doesn’t like being in at all, is a nutter in poor weather when out, doesn’t love being on individual turnout but keeps being kicked because she has poor equine social skills. She also doesn’t do well with movement/busyness on the yard but can’t be left by herself.

My mare, who I PTS in June at age 28, has been reincarnated. She fencewalked in poor weather, or when she hated the yard. She hated many yards. Sometimes, I could identify a reason. Often, it was just bad juju. She was on individual turn-out because she didn't play nice with others. She was a nightmare to keep in when everyone else was out. She could get overly-attached to her neighbor and become almost unhandle-able when the neighbour was out. In the right set-up, she did none of these things, and she was happy in individual or paired turn-out. She could never ever deal with an actual herd. Moving yards was like playing Russian Roulette. 21 years of fun, baby. I don't envy you.

On the other hand, she was a lovely mover, so much fun to ride, so personable, loved people.

I miss the bigness of her personality, the way she thought she was God's gift to f*ckin' humanity, the way she saw us all as her slaves. She had so much presence. My current horses don't have that (although one is only three, so the jury is still out). But they also don't have the nervous-breakdown inducing management quirks, which is kind of nice.

 

[Equi]

I find many big horses don’t give a toss about minis, they’re not horse enough for them. But I also know some horses who just can’t tolerate any horse leaving, even if they had 40 other ones right beside them.

my old many years ago tb was that way, didn’t matter if others were there any horse leaving sent him into the red zone. I originally had him at home alone and he was perfect…after convincing my friend to come to yard for company he got beyond my control and I ended up selling him. His new owner knew everything. She was vastly braver and more experienced than I was and even she gave in and loaned him to someone who had a yard dog just. Him and the dog became inseparable and the fact the dog could come on rides meant he was never alone and he turned back into that lovely horse again for the rest of his years. I don’t really agree with keeping horses on their own but sometimes it works.

 

[CPayne]

Have you tried a stable mirror? It really helped one of mine who would fly around the stable when I left with the other one, just the two horses. I’m told that the fist time I left with the other one he stood looking at himself for 30 minutes. This was a horse who I once met on the way back from a hack loose because he had jumped a 4’6” fence to find us.

 

[charlotte0916]

What set-up did she come from and was she happy there? It sounds like a really busy yard is too much for her, but the current yard is too quiet as there just aren’t enough horses for her to always have company. Horses like this are tricky to manage and there isn’t always an easy solution. The current set-up doesn’t sound ideal and I think you’d have to be very careful if you get her a companion. She’ll either bond so closely to it she won’t want to leave it or kick the living daylights out of it if it’s not exactly the right match for her. Being in consistent work may well help her, but it doesn’t sound like you’ve had that option. Is she talented enough to sell to a professional who would maybe have the facilities to manage her?

Her timeline was a bit unclear on previous yards. She originally was a premature bottle fed foal (assuming that’s where some of the problems have come from), moved to her last owner as a 2yr old on a dairy farm and I think was largely with cows and 2 others for company. Seems to be a gap where I assume she was at livery then on a sales livery. She was very tired when I viewed her and relatively quiet - I think 6 days a week of hard work took the edge off but sales were still keen for her to be viewed as early as poss each am, I think she gets worse the longer she’s stabled in the day! Talent wise she’s largely unproven - moves nicely, good event breeding, good brain to event and sorts herself out but not sure she’d be top track. Probably make an intermediate horse but only even been xc schooling once. That’s one of my ideas currently - send to a pro once her ligament is healed.

 

[charlotte0916]

My mare, who I PTS in June at age 28, has been reincarnated. She fencewalked in poor weather, or when she hated the yard. She hated many yards. Sometimes, I could identify a reason. Often, it was just bad juju. She was on individual turn-out because she didn't play nice with others. She was a nightmare to keep in when everyone else was out. She could get overly-attached to her neighbor and become almost unhandle-able when the neighbour was out. In the right set-up, she did none of these things, and she was happy in individual or paired turn-out. She could never ever deal with an actual herd. Moving yards was like playing Russian Roulette. 21 years of fun, baby. I don't envy you.

On the other hand, she was a lovely mover, so much fun to ride, so personable, loved people.

I miss the bigness of her personality, the way she thought she was God's gift to f*ckin' humanity, the way she saw us all as her slaves. She had so much presence. My current horses don't have that (although one is only three, so the jury is still out). But they also don't have the nervous-breakdown inducing management quirks, which is kind of nice.

Must be a long lost relation of my mare!! Let me know if you’d like another to fill that hole in your life ?
Bizarrely she’s one of the easiest horses I’ve ever ridden, let alone for a youngster, it’s just on the ground/management she’s an absolute odd ball. Although we’ve not managed to do much of that.
Any survival tips welcome!!

 

[charlotte0916]

I find many big horses don’t give a toss about minis, they’re not horse enough for them. But I also know some horses who just can’t tolerate any horse leaving, even if they had 40 other ones right beside them.

my old many years ago tb was that way, didn’t matter if others were there any horse leaving sent him into the red zone. I originally had him at home alone and he was perfect…after convincing my friend to come to yard for company he got beyond my control and I ended up selling him. His new owner knew everything. She was vastly braver and more experienced than I was and even she gave in and loaned him to someone who had a yard dog just. Him and the dog became inseparable and the fact the dog could come on rides meant he was never alone and he turned back into that lovely horse again for the rest of his years. I don’t really agree with keeping horses on their own but sometimes it works.

You’ve hit the nail on the head re your old tb. It doesn’t matter how much horses are around her, horses moving sets her off. It’s like she gets completely in melt down over it. Tossing her head, rearing, pacing the stable, galloping in the field, fretting, the full works. Unfortunately I’m only 21 and at the start of my career so will inevitably have to move at some point so livery yards (with other horses ?) are my practical option. In some ways I think her dream would be to leave at a private home with a retiree herd in the next field.

 

[charlotte0916]

Have you tried a stable mirror? It really helped one of mine who would fly around the stable when I left with the other one, just the two horses. I’m told that the fist time I left with the other one he stood looking at himself for 30 minutes. This was a horse who I once met on the way back from a hack loose because he had jumped a 4’6” fence to find us.

I have tried a stable mirror, I have heard good things so was hoping for significant results but no joy sadly. I’ve tried stable mirror, hay ball, jolly ball, soft toy, stable with window, stable next to others, stable away from others. Nothing makes a significant difference. She’s a real enigma!

 

[Melody Grey]

I can sympathise- the last mare I had (and probably will be the last last mare!) was neurotic at times. She had many vet issues that we sadly never got to the bottom of, but equally as trying as yours with the behaviour.
In this position again, I’d be looking at bloods/ ovaries/ ulcers/ PSSM? This amount of stressiness must have an underlying cause.

I can advocate for geldings generally being a lot easier!!

ETA: I wouldn’t normally resort to trying calmers, but I might here! (For yourself or the horse)

 

[charlotte0916]

I can sympathise- the last mare I had (and probably will be the last last mare!) was neurotic at times. She had many vet issues that we sadly never got to the bottom of, but equally as trying as yours with the behaviour.
In this position again, I’d be looking at bloods/ ovaries/ ulcers/ PSSM? This amount of stressiness must have an underlying cause.

I can advocate for geldings generally being a lot easier!!

ETA: I wouldn’t normally resort to trying calmers, but I might here! (For yourself or the horse)

Normally I like a mare for the added personality but this one takes it a bit far! So far she’s been scoped, treated and scoped clear for ulcers, since kept on an ulcer supplement from the vet. Back xrayed, clean. Physio found some soreness but unclear why - potentially boxrest/ulcers hangover. Ovaries haven’t been scanned yet but I’m considering that in spring. I’ve just put her on a high dose of vit e this week to test the pssm theory.
It’s baffling, she’s confused all the professionals and friends who’ve met her so far.

 

[Squeak]

Tbh from everything you've said as long as you don't think she has health issues then I'd sell her with full disclosure. She doesn't sound like she's giving you any pleasure but a lot of stress instead. Life is too short and she might be a perfect fit for someone else who can control things a bit more such as having the horses at home or a professional.

 

[LEC]

You will not change the lack of social skills - its a common thing among bottle fed foals as they completely miss the social cues learn't from their mother. It could have been helped by putting the horse with a herd of youngsters for 2 years but sounds like this was missed as well. Cows are not good examples as do not have the same social cues as horses and tend to live in much more tightly bound herds barging into each other for example. They also don't kick as a mechanism for final warning.

With the neurotic horse I have, the shetland is a weak 3rd choice on companion but will do if nothing else. We have a all weather turnout so she is put in restricted space if the other horses are off together as otherwise she would lose her mind in a field and either jump fences or injure herself. There is no way you could put her in a stable as would cause her serious anxiety. At least in the all weather she can move, be outside and not injure herself.

I feel for you as difficult horses do suck the fun out of things. Luckily with mine I have the whole yard set up around her which tells you how bad it is. I have got 10x better with groundwork which has helped but most if it is about managing her adrenaline. If her adrenaline is up even slightly being tied up then she will try and kick you. She just has serious fight or flight mechanisms.

As you are not competing I think I would stick her on Valerian and play with the dosage. At least valerian unlike most other calmers has active ingredients which is why its banned.

 

[mini_b]

Having read bits of this and come back to it.
If you want to get rid of her and get something that’s not absolutely wearing you down, can you afford to to send her on sales livery with someone good, all quirks disclosed and cut your losses a bit?

im absolutely not saying palm your problem off on someone else, but someone with more time and a different set up might get on with her a bit better.

 

[charlotte0916]

On a positive note we had a good hack today! She really is one of the easiest horses let alone youngsters I’ve ever sat on - which is why I’ve kept her this long.
She was once again a total t*t when we tried stabling her while the other horse left today - although she could see the other two in front of her.
My next plan is - try switching to riding first thing to take the edge off her. Potentially in combo with ground work sessions on anxiety with a good instructor. I won’t be able to sell her as is currently due to the ligament so I think my options are either gin and creative solutions with a dash of lots of hard work (for both of us) or turn her away until spring next to a friends broodmare. Send good luck - thank you all for your thoughts, it’s really good to know I’m not missing anything and she may just be a particularly hard nut to crack

 

[MuffettMischief]

Have you tried regumate? You can buy small 14/15 days worth bottle to try it. You’ll know pretty soon if it’s doing the trick! I had similar issues recently and this did the trick

 

[rextherobber]

Get Michael Peace out to see her?

 

[TheMule]

I had a mare who was fairly similar and in the end I totally changed how I keep horses because of her. She was at her happiest in a little herd of 4, living out full time. That way she always had a friend and could tolerate the others going out riding etc.
That is much easier to arrange now I have my own set up, but I did manage to keep her happy at a couple of livery yards, with understanding YOs. She has to be in with the others though, over fences did not count in her book! I compromised and always had a little cheapie project horse living with her so I could control the variables.