Talk to me about full loans

[Cheval Gal]

Thinking of full loaning in the spring to get the feel of having a horse full time (only ever shared) before I commit to buying my own horse.

Please give me the benefit of your collective experience - good and bad - of full loaning from the owner and loaner perspective.

Thanks in advance ☺

 

[doodle]

I have loaned a horse of mine. the horse I got as a companion who turned out to be a great riding horse. I initially got a sharer for her then offered ther sharer full loan. Agreement was that she stayed at the farm I had Minto on. It worked really well. Loaner had had ponies as a child and had got back into horses as an adult but wasn’t ready to own herself. She paid everything apart from insurance. Sadly it only lasted a few months when horse was pts in unforeseen illness.

 

[shamrock2021]

I never full loan but I have friends that did. It great if the horse owner nice and it can be very beneficial . They are difficult to find.

 

[Cheval Gal]

I have loaned a horse of mine. the horse I got as a companion who turned out to be a great riding horse. I initially got a sharer for her then offered ther sharer full loan. Agreement was that she stayed at the farm I had Minto on. It worked really well. Loaner had had ponies as a child and had got back into horses as an adult but wasn’t ready to own herself. She paid everything apart from insurance. Sadly it only lasted a few months when horse was pts in unforeseen illness.

So sorry to hear about the horse having to be PTS, that is really sad.

I can imagine a full loan would work well in the circumstances you describe, ie: the loaner having shared first.

 

[Equi]

I’ve loaned a few horses some successfully some unsuccessfully. The best advice I can give you is to have a solid contract in place stating everything from who pays for what and under what conditions you must send the horse back and absolutely don’t take a horse that will be difficult to take back home if you can’t get along with it (like owner is leaving the country or something)

i ended up buying my last loan as I couldn’t bear to part with him and owner had already told me he would be placed for sale as soon as he came back to them, but you have to also have in the back of your head it’s a loan so you may have to send them back at any moment against your will (but this can also be a blessing lol)

 

[Cheval Gal]

I never full loan but I have friends that did. It great if the horse owner nice and it can be very beneficial . They are difficult to find.

I agree, good owners and sharers/loaner are hard to find.

Do most owners prefer to share loan their horse before full loan?

 

[Cheval Gal]

I’ve loaned a few horses some successfully some unsuccessfully. The best advice I can give you is to have a solid contract in place stating everything from who pays for what and under what conditions you must send the horse back and absolutely don’t take a horse that will be difficult to take back home if you can’t get along with it (like owner is leaving the country or something)

i ended up buying my last loan as I couldn’t bear to part with him and owner had already told me he would be placed for sale as soon as he came back to them, but you have to also have in the back of your head it’s a loan so you may have to send them back at any moment against your will (but this can also be a blessing lol)

Great advice, thank you.

 

[doodle]

Yes it definitely worked well. She was such a sweet mare and I knew she would be helpful for someone and having 2 others to be ridden it expecting to have her to ride it worked for me too. The sharer/loaner had the back up of me being there and no worries about moving yard and settling in. I would have carried on with the share arrangement if she hadn’t wanted to loan. After Abbey was pts she went on to ride one of the horses of the owner of the farm.

 

[doodle]

Reading the other replies has reminded me. We had a share agreement and then a loan agreement. It was the bhs template and probably ott but we both knew exactly where we stood in each situation.

 

[Lillian_paddington]

I full loaned and then bought the horse - it wasn’t a LWVTB but they were willing to sell. For me it lacked the security of owning a horse - and I wouldn’t have been able to move yards for example. But on the plus side we didn’t have to commit to a purchase. In terms of looking for a loan it depends on what you want - you’re unlikely to get a beautifully produced young sports horse but you may get a riding club/all rounder sort. I have a friend who looked for a competition loan horse and despite being a lovely rider found it very difficult.
They are out there though. Before my horse’s latest issues we’d put feelers out for loan homes through word of mouth. He was schooling at a good elementary level, jumping 90-1m and would pop under 90 out xc. His hang ups at the time were hock arthritis - mild and at the time thoroughly treated - and being ‘too’ forward (he’s a gentlemen, really). So would’ve been perfect for a PC or riding club home. Of course he’s been incapable of staying in work this year so is now lame, but there you go. There are (sounder) horses like him out there.

 

[Flicker]

I have full loaned and it worked very well. The owner and I had a written contract and she was very in synch with me in terms of his care and training. She sometimes gave me lessons and I also had lessons with her trainer so that worked well.
The only thing that annoyed me a bit was that the yard he was on constantly deferred to the owner with regard to his care. One day I arrived at the yard to discover he’d had the vet for suspected colic (which I would be paying for). Yard phoned owner but nobody bothered to call me! Despite numerous conversations they never quite got out of the habit, I think because YM and owner were friendly. Minor inconvenience and he got all the care he needed but I did feel a bit excluded from time to time (especially when I was footing the bills for every aspect of his care as though he was my own).
Otherwise, I loved the opportunity to have a horse that I never would have been able to afford to buy and knowing that when he was no longer able to do what I needed him to, he’d have a lovely home to go back to.

 

[Chippers1]

I've also full loaned and it worked out very well, he ended up being gifted to me which was the best thing that ever happened to me
The owner and I got on very well (I had known them both since they arrived at the yard, she had outgrown him), we had a contract that stipulated who paid for what and we were also in sync with his care etc.
I think I got very lucky with him and his old owner, we're still good friends now even though he was pts a few years ago (again something we both consulted on and were both there at the end ) I miss that little pony a lot!

 

[Bernster]

Yes, and it has worked well if it’s something that fits with what both sides want/need. In both cases it’s been via people I know. I shared then loaned out a previous horse and she ended up buying him as I was after more of a competition type horse. Currently have one that I am loaning and it works well because it’s beneficial for me and the owner. We have the bhs loan agreement and tried to agree on all major Things up front. They’re not common arrangements as there is some risk but they are possible.

wanted ads might be a good idea as well as scouring local Facebook groups.

 

[Cheval Gal]

Thanks everyone.

So, do most full loans stay at their current yard? Not sure that is what I'd want - depending on the yard of course!

 

[ihatework]

I have both loaned horses and loaned out horses. For the most part, very successfully. The key to it is clear (and reasonable) expectations from both parties, a common goal for the horse, similar preferences for horse management and good communication. Plus get it in writing, it’s debatable if it would stand up in a court of law, but it’s better than nothing.

For me, I would be concerned about loaning out a horse of mine to a new horse owner so they could try before they buy! Firstly I don’t want mistakes being made with my horse and secondly I’d want something a little more permanent. So when you start looking try to mitigate this and it should maximise your chances of finding something suitable. What would make me consider a first time horse owner is if they had chosen wisely on a yard, with experienced help on tap and had committed to weekly lessons with a good instructor.

 

[Cheval Gal]

I have both loaned horses and loaned out horses. For the most part, very successfully. The key to it is clear (and reasonable) expectations from both parties, a common goal for the horse, similar preferences for horse management and good communication. Plus get it in writing, it’s debatable if it would stand up in a court of law, but it’s better than nothing.

For me, I would be concerned about loaning out a horse of mine to a new horse owner so they could try before they buy! Firstly I don’t want mistakes being made with my horse and secondly I’d want something a little more permanent. So when you start looking try to mitigate this and it should maximise your chances of finding something suitable. What would make me consider a first time horse owner is if they had chosen wisely on a yard, with experienced help on tap and had committed to weekly lessons with a good instructor.

Out of interest, would you classify someone who had shared for years, as a first time horse owner? Thank you

 

[ihatework]

Out of interest, would you classify someone who had shared for years, as a first time horse owner? Thank you

Yes. Sharing is cheap. Owning is not, my concern would be is that person financially secure enough to take on all the costs of horse ownership.

 

[Polos Mum]

I would have thought most people looking to put a horse on full loan would be looking for long term arrangements. If you want to loan for say 6-9 months then return the horse so you can buy your own (this is how I have interpreted your post) then the small loan market would be very much reduced for you. Maybe a pregnant person or injured might want something short term.

I don't think many people see loaning as a stepping stone between sharing and full ownership - loaning is more commonly ownership without the cash outlay to start with.

If ultimately you want to buy then I would just do that and skip the loan bit (it might take you 6-9 months to find a suitable loan horse!). If you're not sure whether you can afford ownership then set up a direct debit for £500 a month into a savings account and see how you get on. If you can afford that then great -you'll start building a pot for purchase and getting used to the outlay.

If you aren't sure whether you want the commitment maybe see about increasing the sharing you're doing or have 2 shares or volunteer somewhere where you have to go morning and night in pissing grim winter weather no matter what. If you can do a horse (any horse) twice a day through the next 3-4 months (assuming you're in UK) you'll probably be fine owning.

 

[Cheval Gal]

I would have thought most people looking to put a horse on full loan would be looking for long term arrangements. If you want to loan for say 6-9 months then return the horse so you can buy your own (this is how I have interpreted your post) then the small loan market would be very much reduced for you. Maybe a pregnant person or injured might want something short term.

I don't think many people see loaning as a stepping stone between sharing and full ownership - loaning is more commonly ownership without the cash outlay to start with.

If ultimately you want to buy then I would just do that and skip the loan bit (it might take you 6-9 months to find a suitable loan horse!). If you're not sure whether you can afford ownership then set up a direct debit for £500 a month into a savings account and see how you get on. If you can afford that then great -you'll start building a pot for purchase and getting used to the outlay.

If you aren't sure whether you want the commitment maybe see about increasing the sharing you're doing or have 2 shares or volunteer somewhere where you have to go morning and night in pissing grim winter weather no matter what. If you can do a horse (any horse) twice a day through the next 3-4 months (assuming you're in UK) you'll probably be fine owning.

Thank you.
I dont appear to have worded my op particularly well then!
I have shared for many years, and undertaken many grim winters

 

[Polos Mum]

Thank you.
I dont appear to have worded my op particularly well then!
I have shared for many years, and undertaken many grim winters

Then I would think you would have much more success in looking for something to buy, there is maybe 1 loan for every 1000 horses for sale !

You won't get that much out of a short term loan that you don't already have from years of sharing.

 

[Kaylum]

I loaned a very skinny horse who was in quite a state as the owner had about 20 that they could not feed. I put a lot of working into him, time and money. The owners came to see him quite often and then one day they bought someone who was going to buy him without telling me they put him up for sale. They just said she was a friend but obviously not. They give me a weeks notice and they came and got him. Heartbroken. This was before fb. I found out they had done this with a few others they had put out on loan.

I managed to track him down but the people didnt want me to have contact with him. They sold him a few months after and I put a post on the BHS forum to find out where he was. Got a lead and managed to make contact. I didnt get him back though as the people who had him didnt want to sell him. I loaned him for 2 years.

 

[Cheval Gal]

I loaned a very skinny horse who was in quite a state as the owner had about 20 that they could not feed. I put a lot of working into him, time and money. The owners came to see him quite often and then one day they bought someone who was going to buy him without telling me they put him up for sale. They just said she was a friend but obviously not. They give me a weeks notice and they came and got him. Heartbroken. This was before fb. I found out they had done this with a few others they had put out on loan.

I managed to track him down but the people didnt want me to have contact with him. They sold him a few months after and I put a post on the BHS forum to find out where he was. Got a lead and managed to make contact. I didnt get him back though as the people who had him didnt want to sell him. I loaned him for 2 years.

That's horrible!

 

[Surbie]

I've been loaning mine for 2 years & he's now on permanent loan to me. I have really been lucky - I get on well with his owner, she trusts me and visits him a few times a year. I send photos and updates regularly. We have a BHS contract in place, and I can have him on my choice of yard.

When we started he was at her yard. I went there for a few months so she could see how I rode and looked after him. She's said she would consider selling him to me but I don't have the extra money at the moment. Plus if he ever has to be retired I would like him to go back to her herd, which he knows, and pay for his retirement there.

 

[Flicker]

Thanks everyone.

So, do most full loans stay at their current yard? Not sure that is what I'd want - depending on the yard of course!

My loan horse came to ‘my’ yard but only because the owner knew and trusted the our YM. If I hadn’t been on that yard, I would have kept him where owner wanted him I think.

 

[PurBee]

Whatever you do, have a contract in place stating the terms clearly! Couple that with an attached photo of the horse at the time of loan!

I had a longterm loan of 2 horses, based on terms the loaners themselves came up with. I agreed. It was verbal...between ‘mates’...?

When their life situation changed they didnt notify me and dumped the horses in a field....for a winter, no feed, at all.
When the term came to and end and having had ‘updates, full of lies’...i eventually found out through a contact (who recommended loaner initially as being a good home) that the horses had been turned away And ‘nothing done with them’.
I got the horses back after revealing i had all the paperwork in place to prove i was the owner, as they were insinuating the 18months of dumping the horses in a field meant they owned them. Bizzarely i think they didnt think i paperwork my animals ...projection of their horse practices, more likely.
They were in a sorry state, you should see the before and after pics. Took a year to bring them back in condition and to be handled safely. That was after being double-barrelled by one of them shortly upon returning home, who had become so aggressive. I have no idea what happened, but my god, i was swindled to the umpteenth degree by that ‘good home’.

 

[Cheval Gal]

Whatever you do, have a contract in place stating the terms clearly! Couple that with an attached photo of the horse at the time of loan!

I had a longterm loan of 2 horses, based on terms the loaners themselves came up with. I agreed. It was verbal...between ‘mates’...?

When their life situation changed they didnt notify me and dumped the horses in a field....for a winter, no feed, at all.
When the term came to and end and having had ‘updates, full of lies’...i eventually found out through a contact (who recommended loaner initially as being a good home) that the horses had been turned away And ‘nothing done with them’.
I got the horses back after revealing i had all the paperwork in place to prove i was the owner, as they were insinuating the 18months of dumping the horses in a field meant they owned them. Bizzarely i think they didnt think i paperwork my animals ...projection of their horse practices, more likely.
They were in a sorry state, you should see the before and after pics. Took a year to bring them back in condition and to be handled safely. That was after being double-barrelled by one of them shortly upon returning home, who had become so aggressive. I have no idea what happened, but my god, i was swindled to the umpteenth degree by that ‘good home’.

That is awful, and I'm so glad you got your horses back. Are they ok now? Did you know the 'good home' well?

I must say, it is enough to put anyone off loaning out their horse

I have heard of loaning horror stories through the grapevine: horses being sold on by the loaner; health issues upon return; mistreatment. It really is shameful.

 

[PurBee]

That is awful, and I'm so glad you got your horses back. Are they ok now? Did you know the 'good home' well?

I must say, it is enough to put anyone off loaning out their horse

I have heard of loaning horror stories through the grapevine: horses being sold on by the loaner; health issues upon return; mistreatment. It really is shameful.

it really comes down to honesty. As you’re the loanee, state what you want and can manage. Someone will provide and match well. If you can no longer cope, for whatever reason, notify owner and loan ends. No hurt feelings, amicable and reasonable.
You’ve shared horses lots so its a reasonable step-up to take on a loan and you sound like a dream loanee!

it can be simple, but dishonesty makes it very complex and horrid for all involved - especially the horses!

Being a loanee, you could be accused of all sorts by an owner too...hence why i think a video and picture documentation of the loaned horse at time of loan is an excellent addition to a contract, to prove the condition of the horse and its movement/weight/nature etc.

It’s an awful thing to not be trusting, yet i’ve learnt being overtly trusting doesn’t insulate one from dishonest individuals.

If contract and picture evidence is clear, its something legal to fall back on, IF you should ever need to. Most loans work out wonderfully from what i’ve heard from others, yet some do derail, mostly ‘oral contracts’ like my situation, so written contracts provide rigid confirmation of terms for both parties involved. No-one can later say “no, that wasnt agreed...what i said” etc.

 

[Surbie]

Being a loanee, you could be accused of all sorts by an owner too...hence why i think a video and picture documentation of the loaned horse at time of loan is an excellent addition to a contract, to prove the condition of the horse and its movement/weight/nature etc.

Just to add, I was advised to take many pictures of everything the horse comes with, again to document the condition of it on arrival, just to be on the safe side.

 

[Cheval Gal]

it really comes down to honesty. As you’re the loanee, state what you want and can manage. Someone will provide and match well. If you can no longer cope, for whatever reason, notify owner and loan ends. No hurt feelings, amicable and reasonable.
You’ve shared horses lots so its a reasonable step-up to take on a loan and you sound like a dream loanee!

it can be simple, but dishonesty makes it very complex and horrid for all involved - especially the horses!

Being a loanee, you could be accused of all sorts by an owner too...hence why i think a video and picture documentation of the loaned horse at time of loan is an excellent addition to a contract, to prove the condition of the horse and its movement/weight/nature etc.

It’s an awful thing to not be trusting, yet i’ve learnt being overtly trusting doesn’t insulate one from dishonest individuals.

If contract and picture evidence is clear, its something legal to fall back on, IF you should ever need to. Most loans work out wonderfully from what i’ve heard from others, yet some do derail, mostly ‘oral contracts’ like my situation, so written contracts provide rigid confirmation of terms for both parties involved. No-one can later say “no, that wasnt agreed...what i said” etc.

Thank you for such a detailed reply.
I do think my years of sharing does afford me the experience 'on the ground' so to speak, that I'd need as a full loaner. I understand a horse's requirements and needs, stable management, routine and basic health issues. I also feel I have much to learn even after these years, so would prefer a yard with a proactive and knowledgeable YO to ask advice from.
Having shared, I get the need for honesty and partnership - and as you rightly say, it works both ways. I currently have a contract and feel it safeguards both myself and the owner in that the specifics are very clearly laid out in terms of who has responsibility for what, and what restrictions there might be.
It is sad that such contracts are needed, but absolutely get why this is the case. Your experience highlights it. And picture evidence, I had never thought of but it does make sense.

Thanks again for all the replies.

 

[atropa]

So I've seen this from both sides. I have been a full loaner, taking a horse one that I'd previously shared. On one hand it was great as it enormously benefitted his owner who had become my friend, and I knew him inside out already. On the other hand I quickly realised he wasn't acutely fulfilling my riding dreams.
I am now the owner of three horses, one of whom is on full loan. She is at a different yard from me, but only because she went on full loan when I moved home. Her loaner is her previous sharer of 2 years, so I know she is taken care of excellently. Despite this, we still have a full written BHS contract in place.