Tamarillo clone

I can see no reason why he cannot event in the future, racing is totally different as it does not allow any form of alternative breeding such as AI or embryo transfer, all foals must be conceived naturally, there is nothing in the rules of eventing to prevent foals going on to compete however they get into the world.
 
LittleBecky said:
Sorry i dont think cloning is right... each person and animal is unique in its own way!

Cloning defeats the object of being unique!
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I find it interesting that the clones don't look exactly the same. Look at the while leg markings on these clones and the original horse (Jazz).

jazz.jpg


jazz-clone1.jpg


jazz-clone2.jpg


http://horsetalk.co.nz/2012/07/01/clones-star-dressage-sire-jazz-born/#axzz2fR2w4UH7
 
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I'm not sure if I agree or not to be honest i suppose i can see why they wanted to do it in this case but what a beautiful foal would be amazing to see William fox Pitt on him in the future
 
Cloning doesn't feel right to me. I think whole point is individuality. An awful lot of expectation for this foal too! Let nature have its way....
 
Faracat said:
I find it interesting that the clones don't look exactly the same. Look at the while leg markings on these clones and the original horse (Jazz).

jazz.jpg


jazz-clone1.jpg


jazz-clone2.jpg


http://horsetalk.co.nz/2012/07/01/clones-star-dressage-sire-jazz-born/#axzz2fR2w4UH7
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It is strange! I think it has something to do with the gene that determines the white markings doesn't determine where those markings occur (which legs etc) it just determines how much white will be present.. so theoretically one could have two huge stockings and another 4 smaller white socks .. as long as the total amount 'matches'

(don't quote me on that ;-) im sure i read it somewhere a while back!)
 
Yes, I've read that too, but the foal with four whites has a bigger 'area' of white than the foal with two. I have also read that how the foal lays in the womb affects the white markings.
 
Don't agree. It takes breeding out of the equation! Whats going to happen in a few years when really all we have is a full set of replicas from the history of equestrianism running about and no new 'bred 'blood'

Because at the end of the day, in times to come, who is going to want to take the chance breeding something and pouring over bloodlines when you could just buy a Totilas or Tamarillo clone? You know if they're trained right they have an almost certain chance of reaching the top!
 
I must be going mad, didn't know successful cloning was going on! Thought the offspring were often sickly etc.

I find it quite weird to be honest, having 2 horses genetically exactly the same. Cool, but weird. I wouldn't be opposed to cloning my own mare just to see if the result was EXACTLY like her!
 
I can kind of understand replicating Tamarillo to use as a breeding stallion (doesn't guarantee his offspring will be any good though), the owners must have been wondering 'what if' in any case. But I don't get cloning Jazz, he was a stallion his legacy lives on. Why not just freeze his swimmers?
 
Jenni_ said:
You know if they're trained right they have an almost certain chance of reaching the top!
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It will be a really interesting experiment in nature vs nurture, yes physically they will be the same but mentally will depend on their upbringing, experiences training etc. even how the dam treats them as a foal could have an influence and the clone is being brought up by a different dam. Who knows what the impact of how they are treated by other field mates in their early years has on their confidence etc.

Lots of horses are physically capable but can't mentally cope with top competition
You've then got illness and injury to contend with which will have physical impacts.
 
My first reaction was that it is exciting news, but as we all know, what produces a champion horse is not just its breeding, but its life experience. Full brothers and sisters don't achieve the same. I hope he does get to compete, just to see what happens. What happens now in some breeding circles is to store the semen from a stallion, then geld them and compete them. Then if they are successful they have the seman available to use.

This is, precisely why no artificial means are allowed in TB breeding, otherwise there would be hundreds of foals by Saddlers Wells.
 
It is very interesting, especially when WFP says he acts like the original? My daughters are identical twins, so basically are genetic clones but personality wise they are quite different, so could it be that "Tom's" personality has an effect on his competitive career?
 
I can just see it now, 2024 Olympics will be made up of Valegro clones

I don't like the idea myself, it's good competition to have different horses, different breeding etc, would it not all get very boring if they were all the same?
 
is it worse than the indiscriminate breeding that abounds? better than the huge amounts of wastage produced by the sports horse industry? (taking into account cloning may not guarantee anything other than genetics.)

these horses have at least been produced with a plan and with a reason (ie proven track record). I don't really have strong feelings for or against but there is a certain knee jerk reaction that comes with the word 'clone' much like there is when someone mentions GM crops.
 
Wheels said:
I can just see it now, 2024 Olympics will be made up of Valegro clones

I don't like the idea myself, it's good competition to have different horses, different breeding etc, would it not all get very boring if they were all the same?
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But you still get certain people that get on/ like certain horses - you get great horses sold that the new owner can't ride one side of - it's still a partnership and you'd still get someone who'd beat a valegro clone because of skill/ investment in schooling
 
There is a lot of Nature Vs Nurture here, yes he may genetically be the same as Tamarillo but how someone or something turns out also has a lot to do with how it is brought up and trained. It may have the same potential as Tamarillo but that doesnt always mean it will be as successful. Plus you have to take into consideration that the evolved horses that will be competing in a few years, will more than likely be better than the ones that he would have competed against as the "original"

Personally I think cloning is a tricky subject
 
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