TB in poor condition - Advice Please!!

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flying_tackle

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My 10 year old ex-racer TB has lost a lot of weight and condition over winter. I have only had him since Nov (he came out of racing in July) and am new to horse owning so have been keeping him on full livery. He dropped a lot of weight around Jan/Feb time and after raising concerns with the yard owner his haylage was upped in March from 16lbs every night to 24lbs and his hard feed (pasture mix) has been upped very slightly from 1-2lbs in one feed to 2-3lbs in two feeds. He is also on blue chip.

He is improving slowly but surely (I know this will take time and don't want to rush him). He is also showing pre-laminitic signs so understand that the urge to feed him up on too many concentrates will harm.

My question is (this being my first TB winter!), is whether it is usual for him to have lost so much weight and condition over winter? It was only after a few weeks of nagging the YO that he got put on the higher rations - should this have been done in anticipation of him struggling to keep winter weight due to his type?

Also, the advice I have been given by the YO is that as my riding/schooling regime dropped off in Jan (due alternate bouts of my ill health and him going lame) this is why he has lost muscle tone. The YO has now offered to work with us both (now we are fully fit), at no cost to me, on a schooling programme to prove this point! I understand this but my view would be that this should have been avoided by acting on the initial weight loss of fat back in Jan. Does anyone else agree?

Sorry this is such a long post but have got to a point now where i don't know whether to keep him there (now he is on the right lines) or move him to DIY.

Am I getting the right advice from the YO?

Any advice appreciated!!
 
Was he warm enough at night? TBs are prone to quick weight loss especially if they are cold. Make sure he has enough rugs.
I'm personally a little wary of pasture mix as it has sent a number of horses I know loopy - the name is misleading, it is very high in energy! I keep weight on my TB with conditioning cubes, the best are either Baileys No4 or Spillers.
Whilst muscle tone could account for some loss of condition my TB has been off work for six months and still looks the picture of health, if a little under muscled! Next winter I'd be inclined to give him ad lib haylege from the word go.
 
i second the suggestion of Baileys Conditioning Cubes, and also of more rugs. if the horse is getting enough hay or haylage (adlib, ideally) and is warm enough, and wormed, it should not lose weight. weight loss has nothing to do with you not working the horse and it losing muscle tone, that's rubbish... they can be (reasonably) fat and happy out in the field with no exercise at all, and look fine. the horse might need a blood test to find out what is going on.
what do you mean by pre-laminitic signs? unless the horse is cresty (obviously fat neck) and has ridged hooves and a history of laminitis, if it isn't holding weight i can't see what you mean. don't underfeed because you think it might get laminitis, feed plenty of good hay ideally, see how he copes with the grass etc.
best of luck.
 
second everything that has already been said....Lots of rugs, adlib forage and a conditioning feed such as baileys no 4.

Did the world of good for my boy last year, this year due to the cost and having 2 TB "hatracks" i went down the route of Rugs, adlib forage and alfabeet.

My two are on 4 small meals a day with adlib forage

Am confused by what you mean of pre laminitic. I would have a chat with your farrier as some TB's can be very sensitive with their feet and can bruise very easily giving a pottery gait.

I would seriously re look at your feeding regime, as it doesn't sound like it is suiting your boy. Lots of forage is always the best
 
TB's do drop weight easily in the winter and it can be a hard balancing act to keep the weight on and keep them sane!?

I totally agreed with what has been said above and also recommend Baileys Conditioning Cubes, I also use Alfa A Oil with it - and that is great for non-heating weight gain.

I used to give my TB two massive haynets each night and he'd have finished them by morning.
 
It's all very confusing. Want to do the best for him but as a relative novice it can be hard to know exactly what that is.

Re: pre-laminitic signs, he is currently recovering from an abscess and he has very soft soles at the front which the vet has said is a pre-cursor to laminitis. Hence the advice from the YO to only increase his hard feed with work very slowly. Also been advised by the YO that his grazing needs to be closely monitored becuase of this, especially in spring/summer, and as I work full time I don't know if I could realistically do this on DIY.

Since I made a fuss about his weight he now has enough haylage, has been double rugged day and night( as I'd already bought him the most heavyweight ones I could find!!) and is slowly putting weight on but I have doubts that he was getting the care he needed in the first place. What you have said seems to have confirmed that for me so thank you - I now know I'm not going mad!! No matter how confident the YO is!!
 
Full livery yards rarely give ad lib haylage from what I have seen, which in a horse like this is first thing to do IMO.

I also see it as slightly pointless to be feeding that amount of pasture mix when he would be much better off on a conditioning cube (Baileys or D&H Build up are excellent). Can you speak to the YO about that? Also what chaff is he having with the mix? Something like ALfa Oil would be the best. Do you get a choice in feed? I dislike full livery that doesn't give a choice.

For example we got a tbxhann in October who was very underweight and looked like a racehorse, he's been on 1 scoop Alfa Oil, 1 scoop Alfa beet and half scoop Build up cubes twice a day, along with ad lib haylage and decent rugs all winter and now he looks fab. He actually came off the conditioning cubes in Jan as he was looking so good (he windsucks, so they were the 1st to go)
 
Well this is also my first year of horse onwership and I bought myself a very skinny neglected TB in July. She's a weaver, so it was my intention that she lives out full time in a good heavy duty weatherbeata rug. She is looking a little bit ribby at the moment, probably dropped of in the Jan-Feb months I would guess, but then again I've been riding her a lot too, just hacking currently, but going out for good couple of hours most days. She's full of energy but not silly.

I'm simply feeding Scats own brand hi-fibre cubes, hobson & dorrell build up cubes and alfa-a oil chaff. She only gets one extra scoop of hobson dorrell build up after riding.

She also gets a small section of horsehage green mostly only after I've ridden.

Here's a picture of her from recently ...
 
This is a photo of when I first got him.

George.jpg


This is him last week

George2.jpg
 
If the vet is concerned over laminitis I would not feed pasture mix but go for a high fibre diet (low starch and cereal content). You can also feed oil as extra calories. ALso you could give them a balancer like Baileys Lo cal
 
That is absolutely shocking.

Sorry - I would be taking my business away from the yard you are at. That is just appalling. He clearly has not been being fed enough.

Take over his care yourself - really it is not rocket science. Give him as much hay as he can eat - and more - get him on some good high fibre based hard feed - put him on some decent grazing and hey presto.

I really am shocked I'm afraid!!!!
 
I had not seen the pic, but as AmyMay said if this was my horse at a full livery yard I would by no means be happy. He has very little muscle and no fat - to me it looks like the horse is not being fed anywhere near as much as your being told. If it is I would get the vet out to run blood tests etc. I think your vet may be the best route TBH, as they may be able to recommend a decent yard where the horses look well
 
Oh dear, he looks terrible!! Do not believe all this about the pre laminitic signs, that sounds like a complete load of BS to me. Lots of TB's have soft soles.

I would feed more haylage ( is it good quality?) as much as he wants basically, plus lots of good grazing, and 3 feeds a day, something like Baileys no 4, a scoop in each feed along with a 2scoops of Winergy Growth ( which is only fibre with lots of oil)
I would also add brewers yeast, and linseed oil or rice bran oil.
A lot more rugs on at all times as well.
 
I would lovel to know how much you are being charged for your horse to be on full livery under the expert care of your YO!
 
If that is your horse looking "better" then good grief! Hand in your notice and get out asap! I feel quite furious for you! They have duty of care over your horse and to let it get into that condition is disgusting! It has nothing to do with lack of work, your horse is underweight pure and simple!

I hope this doesn't upset you, I really don't want it to, but like Amymay, feel very stongly about this!
 
You need to get some help asap......your horse is thin and needs some help sooner rather than later.

Please get some advice and help - you have a lovely horse who has come thru the winter looking very poor.

Good luck - call up your vet and/or any of the feed companies who will advise you. Your YO has been negligent.....
 
It looks to me as if your horse may have something wrong with him to be looking this poor. Has the vet taken any bloods? My oldy dropped heaps of weight over a few weeks last winter and he had some sort of infection (the vet still doesn't know exactly what). It took several months, but we did get the weight back on him with the help of Top Spec and conditioning cubes.
 
Thank you all so much for the advice and support. I feel very sad and disappointed with myself. Thought I was doing the right thing going full livery (uts £60 p/w by the way).

My sister has been trying to convince me for ages that he wasn't getting the right care (her horse is at the same yard - and has lost 40kg since his saddle was fitted in December!).

Sorry for being so hard to convince Shel. New yard and lots of tlc here we come!!
 
if soft soles mean pre-laminitic then I am totally up the swanny!!


My boy has very soft soles and my vet said that was just how he was made and that it wasn't anything sinister. it did mean that he was predisposed to brusing and abcesses and I was advised by both vet and farrier to have him perminently in pads.

I work full time and keep both my ex-racers on DIY livery, that way I can keep an eye on what is going on with them, and I learn't as I went along, I was also very lucky with my YM.

As a first time owner it is very hard as you are having to learn very quickly and the support that you thought you could count on isn't worth what you are paying. I would look at finding another yard ( and possibly vet).

Where abouts are you as there must be someone on here that is somewhere close to you that could advise/help
 
I am glad that you can see the yard has been awful to your horse, I would as I said previiously get the vet to check for any medical conditions. I would still be leaving yards though
 
He needs alot of food ASAP!!But make sure you introduce it slowly, and in small amounts. You need three feeds a day, and i agree with 3 scoops of baileys No.4 and 2/3 scoops winergy growth a day. The winergy will provide high fibre and high oil and very low starch, perfect for tbs.Give him as much hay as he will eat. I would also have him checked out-a drop in weight like that is horrific. Like everyone else said, that is completely unacceptable, he has gone from looking in very good nick to looking like a starved animal.This isnt meant to sound mean to you at all but I would get him sorted, take it into your own hands. And pasture mix does very little for weight gain
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New yard is a good plan.
Also with regards to the soft soles, it's a typical TB thing. I'd be looking to swap farriers! Had two TBs both of whom have had problems with bruised soles, the current one spent almost six months off work due to it before we put gel pads in. It doesn't mean they might turn laminitic, it simply means they have typical TB feet. I'd get the horse off pasture mix onto Dengi Hi Fi, conditioning cubes and oil. If possible three feeds a day - my TB has a scoop of Hi Fi and three-quarters of a scoop of conditioning cubes three times a day, he would have more but he is not in much work and looks well.
With regards to doubel rugging - it is necessary. My TB wears a full weight fal under rug with neck plus a light weight stable, all rounded off with a heavy weight stable in the middle of witner. He has just this week gone down to simply wearing the one heavy weight stable rug.
TBs are sensitive creatures and take a lot of rugs and ffed. Their feet also take a lot of care.
 
I think you and your poor horse have learnt a very tough lesson. Yes, you have paid for it to be looked after, but you should also take some responsibility in this.

As a novice horse owner you obviously felt you were doing the best by asking someone more experienced than you to look after your horse - and you were. However, it doesn't take experience to know that something is seriously amiss when you look at how your horse has lost so much weight. It doens't happen overnight - and the decline would have been obvious to you.

The more I look at the photo's the more distressing I find it - because in the months that this has been going on someone should have done something about it - and sorry, but that person was you.

You would appear to have been taken advantage of by someone purporting to run a livery business (how you can keep a horse on full livery for £60.00 is beyond me though - and no wonder corners have been cut). But bottom line is that the responsibility of this animal lies with you - and I think you should consider very carefully the responsibility that this carries.

I'm sorry to be so blunt about it - but this situation shouldn't have arrisen - and had you been a bit more proactive it could have been prevented.
 
that is shocking, poor horse, poor you. get him out of there... YO is simply not feeding that horse enough. it isn't rocket science. worm him, feed him as much good quality hay as he wants to eat, rug him sufficiently, a bit of vit and mineral supplement and he'll look 1000x better. you don't need a magic weight gain formula for him at all, just more good basic long forage.
YO should be ashamed.
 
AmyMay, I totally agree with you. I take full responsibility for his condition. I think I have been too easily convinced for too long by someone who I thought knew what they were doing.

All I can say is it will NEVER happen again and I'll trust my instincts.....
 
Good girl. And remember - full livery usually equals around £100 a week - any less, and the YO can't afford to keep your horse properly!
 
Unless you live in the out back and beyond £60/week is peanuts for full livery.... Around here it's a good £100/week.....

Don't beat yourself up too much. You are new to this, and you have tried to correct the situation but the YO has not responded adequately.

Good luck searching for a new yard. If you need advice, people are always here to help. I would suggest finding youself a good Riding Instructor who will help guide you through looking after your horse on DIY. I do this all the time with my more novicey clients and don't mind at all.
 
Oh dear he is very thin, thinner than my mare was back in the summer and I didn't ride her for a month because of what she looked like! I 've seen some skinny TB's but his withers are razor sharp with all ribs showing !!! I was recommended build up by my local riding school, it builds top line I believe. Its hard to decide what to feed I suppose with all the advice available, I just followed what my local feed supplier recommended and then added the build up cubes after Id spoken a lady who runs the local riding school. I only feed once a day too. Must be the grazing keeping mine ok.
 
My TB went on loan looking like your boy when you 1st got him, 3 months later he looked like your horse in the second pic. Needless to say I brought him straight home!! Since I have had him back (middle of Feb) I have been feeding him twice a day on 2 large scoops of alfa a, 2 small scoops of D & H yearling cubes (can be used for condition as well as youngstock), 1 large scoop of speedibeet and pink powder. He also has ad lib haylage. The last 2 weeks I have also been giving him a large tubtrug full up with readigrass in his stable over night. He has really picked up, although still underweight I can ride him now. Like you he was in the care of people I thought were knowledgeable. I would never loan him or any other horse ever again. His care will always be down to me from now on, I would never trust anyone again.
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