Teaching a horse to work on the bit...

metalmare

metalmare

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Hi all,

My pony is now at the point, having settled into his home, had his saddle checked, his teeth done and his bit changed to a milder french link loose ring, where I feel I can begin to develop his schooling, without feeling that his reactions might be discomfort more than inexperience.

He already has a few positives to build on: he has a very active walk, he usually walks in a good rhythm and he isn't too high above the bit.

I'd like to start harnessing this now and asking him to work on the bit for short periods of time. I have no school so this is mostly straight line work in walk.

He drops onto the bit beautifully when asked, flexing at the poll and relaxing his jaw. I get that lovely elastic, light feeling that you get when riding a well schooled horse on the bit. He maintains this for around 5 seconds, then starts head shaking and remains thoroughly cheesed off for the rest of the ride. I've pretty much ruled out physical causes: I now think it's an evasion to harder work. I would say his muscles were tired, but not after 5 seconds!

How can I (gently) support him in developing his schooling?

One thing I suspect is that when he gives, I too give the rein as reward: I wonder whether I give a little too much and allow him to feel he can have his head?

This must be common - advice much appreciated, thank you!
 
No, he's not especially young. He's 13 and from what I can make of his history it seems he's been passed from pillar to post and never had any consistent or high level schooling, although for all that he certainly isn't spoiled. He's no blank canvas either though and he knows his own mind!

Thank you for the link.
 
I've had a look at the other thread which was interesting, but the difference in my case is that the pony is usually working in front of the leg and actively from behind and that he does drop onto the bit. It's maintaining it where the problem lies - he isn't steady in his head carriage.
 
Well, I wasn't expecting a magical cure guys but I guess I'll just continue using my brain and my powers of deduction on this one as it looks like a topic no-one is too keen to elaborate on... :-)
 
I'm doing the same with my 16 year old mare. My instructors tell me that I'm to be persistent - give when she gives but insist again that she accepts the bit as soon as she resists by raising her head.
 
I feel that persistence is also what I need and I think I am a soft touch. It's just hard to go from him relaxing and swinging along not on the bit to saying 'oi' and having an argument about going on the bit, BUT... sometimes things have to get worse before they get better and I've no doubt a bit of self-belief and insistence on my part will do the world of good!
 
Just a little point, but does he maybe not have the muscle built up yet to hold the position for long? My big baby boy will do it for a little while, but then lets go. I know it will just take a little while for him to build up the proper strength to work properly on the bit :)
 
I would treat an older horse that hadn#t been ridden correctly the same as a recently backed youngster; neither will have strong enough musculature to sustain self-carriage, let alone with a jockey on top, for very long.

I would therefore work on the lunge, long reining etc encouraging the horse to develop the correct musculature as well as doing hill work to strengthen back end and pole work in hand.
 
What made the difference for me was when my instructor got on her and she was miraculously in an outline in all three paces - and through the transistions too (I've owned her since a month old, and she's never worked in an outline in her life until the last few months!). Now I know that it's me - if I'm strong enough in my seat and back (and head!), she's capable of doing it for me too.
 
Ahh, I see where you're coming from.
In that case, I'll go with what gunnerdog is saying. As he's not been in consistent work, it's likely that he won't have developed the muscles required to hold himself for long periods of time, so it's a matter of just building it up little by little. Polework, as mentioned - raised poles can do wonders once they're a little stronger. But it sounds like you're essentially on the right track, it's just a matter of being very definite about working whilst you're asking him to, but not holding it for longer than he can manage.
 
Forget about the head. Use your seat and legs to get him working through from behind. Do lots of transitions, polework, hillwork, work over different kinds of terrain and changes of direction to help to develop muscles correctly.
 
That's all really good advice - thank you!

I was thinking that he ought to be able to hold it for more than a few seconds, but as you all point out, the muscles along his whole body probably feel uncomfortable... in fact, if I tried to touch my toes I couldn't do it let alone hold it for 5 seconds... it's perhaps to do with suppleness as much as tone?

I don't believe horses argue for the hell of it, which is why I've felt uncomfortable about simply insisting and why I've asked advice on here. Although, I am also aware that I am a complete pansy with the contact! And I still need to learn to be more definite and consistent in the contact whether he's on or above the bit.

I'll use the ideas you've all suggested to develop his whole musculature.

Are there any suppling exercises I could also try?
 
Think about it like this - try holding your arms out completely straight for as long as you can. They'll begin to get tired. Now imagine the weight of a horses skull (which isn't inconsiderable) and the strength required to hold it in a position which, at the end of the day, they wouldn't naturally maintain. So, for perhaps an hour a day, we're asking them to do this - the other 23 hours they're out, being a horse, not caring what their body is doing. And if a horse has been in inconsistent work, then you can't expect them to have the muscle tone to be able to hold themselves.

Remember coming across this a while ago, and just thought it was interesting what's said about it taking a year or so to correctly develop top line before even thinking about proper collection: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8cOq7YWXys

I'm afraid I can't offer suppling exercises as such, as I've never been one for moving the head around - tend to focus far more on engaging the back/hind end. However, on the ground carrot stretches could help to start working on developing those muscles. Just be careful not to overdo it, as he could risk over straining muscles when they're unused to being worked.
Ridden, lateral work can be excellent for helping to develop straightness (ironically) and teaching him/you how to move the shoulders/quarters around etc from the seat. Also, poles on a curve/corner can be a useful little thing for engaging the hinds/back and working on shortening/lengthening in trot, provided he's balanced enough to do this.

I can empathise with you on contact issues, as it's something that I've struggled with. It's the matter of maintaining a consistent contact with a forward feeling to the hands - so that, whilst your elbows remain at your sides, the hands are pushing forward. However, the horse moves its head, so the contact has to be adjusted accordingly by taking the hands wider etc in order to take up the contact more/give more. Whilst dismounted, loop your thumbs through belt loops or something similar and pull forwards, noticing which muscles in your back/core are being used, then try to maintain that toned feeling whilst holding your hands in riding position. I have a 'Riders Belt', which has done wonders, especially for work without stirrups, but you don't need gadgets to achieve it.


As you say, horses don't argue for the hell of it (the majority of the time). And he certainly doesn't sound the sort that would. Just notice what he's doing, and reflect on what it could mean - are you giving the right aids clearly enough, so that he understands what it is that you want of him? Is he capable of doing what you ask of him? It's when they don't understand, or find things difficult, that problems arise. But you seem to know that pretty well already, to be frank, so I reckon I'm preaching to the choir rather. :p
 
Thank you for the advice and the video link - I'll give that a good watch :-)

I also thought about carrot stretches - he has a short, stocky neck being a welsh, so I thought, continuing the analogy of touching the toes, that a stretch between the front legs to the girth might not harm.

I believe gymnasts attain suppleness by doing gentle daily stretches... little and often. It makes sense that the same could be true for a horse.

The interesting bit is putting it into practice - during the week my husband is the main carer of the pony so he has had his instructions! Apparently day one involved more walking backwards and shuffling than stretching. I think this reluctance to stretch adds weight to the argument that he is probably tight through those muscles. Day two apparently was much better. Tomorrow I get to see for myself.
 
Wouldn't normally feel qualified to comment but after having the most amazing lesson yesterday I just thought I'd add 1 thing! I noticed u said that u release when he comes onto a contact no was also having contact issues but my instructor told me not to release, that's not a reward, that makes them go huh I did what u asked where did u go. When he achieves the contact you need to keep ur hands perfectly still and maintain softness through ur wrists and elbows to allow the elasticity and that stillness is the reward. I'm not saying that u should have been moving ur hands around loads to get him there though. 1 hand should always have been still but the other will have been encouraging him to bend /flex into ur opposite leg and that, as long as he is going forward, will create the contact! Hope that helps!
 
Without getting into a whole argument about how to get a horse on the bit - people do it very differently and many methods lead to acceptable ends... but here is a tip/analogy i used a lot when I was teaching, perhaps it will help you - perhaps not - people learn in different ways but for what it is worth....

whatever you are doing to ask for that first flex onto the bit think about this being you communicating with him at a normal tone - not shouting, not whispering but just "talking" to him using rein and seat and leg.

Now when he gives to you, don't think about completely releasing the contact but rather think about changing the tone of your aids so move from talking at a normal level to whispering (just a tiny tiny little reminder) if he comes 'of the bit' "talk" in the normal tone again then when he gives again start to whisper.

After you have practised for a short time choose a time when he is relaxed and on the bit and completely give the rein, give him a pat. Long rein and stretch if safe to do so. Then retake rein and ride for bit as you usually do not asking for 'on the bit' just being happy together. When he is relaxed and happy after a while try the "asking then whispering" stuff again. After a while you will learn to feel when he is about the come off the bit and you can speak to correct him before the change would be visible to anyone watching. Riding is like having a private conversation with your horse - the aim is that no one else can see you talking to him/her!

Hope its helpful.
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Yes, it's really interesting what you're all saying about the contact. I know it's a really complex subject I've asked advice on as it's all so personal to individual pairings, but it's still really helpful to hear different people's viewpoints and the analogies and videos are really useful. I'm a born learner - I love it. So I'm never too proud to ask for and accept advice.

I've also contacted my trimmer, who is an all round fantastic horse woman (my horse always goes to see her before me when she's out to him (so did my last)... she just has that brilliant connection).

She agrees he is probably too stiff and that any sort of carrot stretches, massage, etc will help. She also suggested I could seek the support of a physio, etc.

With regards to ridden work, her recommendation was still to practise working on the bit, but at first to ask him, then release almost before he's dropped onto the bit, so there's no chance of pain if he's holding a position he's not supple enough for.

She said to do this several times a ride so it's like a game where he gets rewarded for trying, as he is willing.

Then when he is good at this I maintain the try for a hoofbeat, progressing to a stride... she said to imagine it will take forever and then I will be pleasantly surprised when one day he shows his topline is supple enough to maintain an outline.

I can see exactly where she's coming from - making it a positive experience and a game, while gently suppling his topline both on top and from the ground.
 
This is him in his natural outline - you see he has quite a short topline and a stocky neck - not the sort of pony that is naturally built for suppleness. He's not one who will, for example, take the chance to work long and low - on a loose rein he works pretty much as you see him here.

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