Teaching a horse to yield to pressure?

[el_Snowflakes]

Hi all,

Just wondered what methods you use to teach a horse to yield to pressure. My mare is strong both to ride and lead and i wonder if shes ever been taught to 'give'?! any (sensible ) suggestions welcome!

 

[TigerTail]

Being strong when ridden and on the ground are two totally separate issues to me - although the riding one can in some instances stem from the ground one.

On the ground it is handler taught - so if she is strong its because you've always gone with 'oh shes always been like this' and let her do it. Therefore she doesnt know she is doing anything wrong so will carry on.

To stop her being strong you need to be consistent, EVERY TIME! She never walks infront of you. She never dances around you. When you say stand she stands still, if she takes a step forward you back her up that step, same for back and sideways. You need to have control of her feet at all times. You should never have to move out of the way for her, should always be the other way or she is being your boss mare which is no good.
I would be using a dually halter to begin with, which tightens when the horse goes past you etc so makes being in the wrong place uncomfortable for them. It then slackens immediately when they go back to where they should be.

Id recommend you get Kelly MArks Perfect Manners book for some ideas.

Riding wise it could either be a further manifestation of her lack of respect for you, or she has never been taught to understand the bit properly in which case she needs re mouthing, flexions and lots of in hand work

 

[el_Snowflakes]

thanks for your answer. Can I ask what you mean by 'flexions'?

 

[bobreader]

On the ground lead her with a lunge line, always give her about 1 mtr line when you walk, as she starts to go by you step in front of her and kick back vigorously and DO NOT look back, ( no need to make contact when you kick but if you do you wont do any harm ) walk forward 10 paces and stop abruptly and if she stops abruptly as well dont look back but praise her, if she doesnt stop kick back again and repeat the excercise. takes 5 mins max.
Its exactly what the mares do in the field and its exactly what she will understand instantly.
Or spend money on equipment and lessons .
Flexion should be started on the ground but can be started on horse back,
with an ordinary snaffle bit slide your hand down the rein and pull back towards your hip gently, the second she comes round off the pressure and her feet are not moving release and praise and do the other side. The more she flexes left and right the lighter she will become but you must release as soon as she gives to the pressure.
Simple honest horsemanship, good luck.

 

[tazzle]

on the other hand .........

you could teach her to respond to the very lightest pressure by rewarding her when she does so.

if she has learnt in the past that it's a "battle of stength / wills" then she might just keep upping the "ante". ..... maybe she needs to learn that she can give a little and listen to small amounts of pressure. (A few years ago now I "relearnt" about levels of pressure with Taz and discovered just how "light" we could be with each other ...... and was kinda sad that I had previously been quite "crude" in my communication with her despite my determination to be a positive reinforcer. )

I am not saying btw one way is right or wrong just describing to you another method as you asked I used clicker training cos whoever had "trained" my horse before me had totally ruined her..... contact with people either caused her to leave or she steamrollered over them ( I have seen clicker work with some pretty big and bargy bold horses too )

Clicker and any positive reinforcement method works by providing motivation / reward for the horse to do the "right " thing ( like standing / walking in the "right" place). Using this method does not mean the human becomes a wimp that never says "no" or does not correct unwanted behaviour .... it does change the mindset from making the horse do something to encourage them to learn for themselves what the human wants and decide to do it.


soooooo...... eg if I wanted a flexion ( since you asked )

a flexion at its simplest is the horse giving you its head / neck to the side

I can choose neg reinforcement . ie I open hand to the side and apply very light pressure on the rein..... the horse at this point usually does one of several things.....

* it immediately and softly gives with its head with relaxation at the poll and the ears level
* it gives its nose but braces at the poll
* does not move but is not actively bracing
* it braces totally

soooooooo . if I get the first ..... flipping excellent

if any of the others then we need to work on it

I then can choose either to maintain the same light pressure and reward any slight change ..... or to up the pressure either with a steady increase or a "jiggle" till the horse gives.

If I wanted to use pos only I could take a hand to the side and do a little finger wiggle to get horses attention and reward any attention or movement toward that side. Once the horse is turning reliable to that then introduce the contact on the rein as the cue... fade the finger wiggle and the pressure from the contact is the cue.


With Taz I use mainly clicker but I do sessions too with the more usual neg reinforcement ......... and that can apply to "BHS" / NH or any "methodology" one cares to mention cos everyone uses it .... the application of it however varies tremendously. I prefer to use the lightest possible and reward little tries




I am hesitiant to make an actual suggestion as I have not seen you and your mare elsazzo and it would depend soooooo much on you both as individuals and as a partnership as to what is the best way forward. to give an example of why. Taz is sensitive to body language and intent and can be moved around doing lateral work etc even by little children but when a lady who has asked me to help her learn this stuff tried it with her..... she did not move a muscle This lady had no "intent" and Taz knew it. Taz was not being rude either, its something she has learnt, to ignore movement of arms / legs / bodies that have no "intent" in them ( useful when she is working with people with disabilities ...and others .... whos limbs do not always "do as they are told")

If the above lady had to deal with a horse that reacted badly to her physically putting pressure on it as in some examples already given someone could get badly hurt.




My only suggestion is to go back to groundwork to learn all about applying different sorts of pressure and asking her to give to it ............ some people use body (language), some use whips, some use whirling ropes. All can be used gently , all can be used "effectively".

mmmmmmm rambled on

 

[el_Snowflakes]

Thanks so much for your replies

Ah I do the 'flexion' thing already! Maybe I need to do it more often as i only do it occasionally

 

[tazzle]

Thanks so much for your replies

Ah I do the 'flexion' thing already! Maybe I need to do it more often as i only do it occasionally

one of the things that I learnt at a clinic was to ask for flexions first before you do anything else at all (no matter how well trained horse is) ...... if it does not give its head willingly and softly then you dont have its attention ..... then do do what it takes to get it before asking for anything else Of course there are times when the horse has too much energy and needs to leave but then all I would try and do is direct that movement in a direction until horse can stand still ... and start again.