teaching a young horse leg aids

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mayangold

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I have a just turned 4 yr old coming into regular work after a lazy winter. However I am struggling with getting her to move off the leg as she stops dead if she doesn’t want to go forward and bucks on the spot (and oh boy can she buck).
History is she was backed last October by well known locally professional. She was walk, trot and cantering and able to be the lead horse. Over the dark winter months she has been long reined extensively ie 2 or 3 times a week and I have been getting up on her and pottering about the yard twice a week with someone holding her head.
Now we are trying to progress I realise how reliant she is on that person on the ground. She’s taking her instructions from them not my leg. She will hack behind a lead horse and ride up alongside but will not cross the invisible barrier to become lead horse. She is happy out on her own/ in front on the long lines.
Back has been checked
Teeth done in January
Saddle fitted, re flocked and checked by saddler and then re checked by back lady.
Any ideas for teaching her to move off the leg when she’d rather not?
P.S giving her a smack with a stick is out! Id end up in the next county!!!
 
Try a whip-whop as an addition to the leg. I use a lead rope with about eighteen inches hanging to swing shoulder to shoulder. Not to hit, it should be just enough to be seen as a swishy thing behind her eye that comes to rest on her shoulder on each side.
 
Will she rein back without fuss or threatening to rear? If so, try gently reining back until she is fed up and really wants to go forward - then apply strong forward aids. In theory, making it uncomfortable for her to NOT go forward.
 
Colivet, she isn't misbehaving, she doesn't understand the aids. :)
When I use the whip-whop I hold both reins in one hand. I have been known to use the reins themselves as a whip-whop at times when my other horse is being a bit slow to respond to the leg so maybe you could try that first.
 
Hepsibah said:
Colivet, she isn't misbehaving, she doesn't understand the aids. :)
When I use the whip-whop I hold both reins in one hand. I have been known to use the reins themselves as a whip-whop at times when my other horse is being a bit slow to respond to the leg so maybe you could try that first.
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I understood from OP's post that when backed initially, she was going forward from the leg in all paces even when alone or as lead horse and that her reluctance to do so is a recent development. It sounds to me that if she stops and bucks it is more a case of "no, I don't want to" rather than "sorry, I don't understand". Either way, the whip-whop could well be effective. Making it uncomfortable to stop going forward might also help.
 
I think its lack of understanding (ie the leg doesnt= insticitve go foward, although she can do it if she thinks about it) combined with the fact she'd really rather not go forward. So Both "I dont understand" and 'I dont want to go forward anyway'"

Does that make sense?
 
Does she understand the voice aids ?, if she will go from the voice you can back the voice up with a leg aid and eventually dispense with the voice.
 
As the professional you purchased her from is local and they had her doing all you require and more, send her back to them to get her going again and have some lessons from them to cement your partnership.

They know the horse and will interpret correctly her current behaviour, rather than anyone second guessing on a forum.
 
AdorableAlice said:
Does she understand the voice aids ?, if she will go from the voice you can back the voice up with a leg aid and eventually dispense with the voice.
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This ^^^^.

We have someone walking behind when long reining as well as the person "steering" with the reins. If a verbal signal 'walk on' doesn't get an immediate response, there will be an additional 'inducement' (swish of a lunge whip, shout, anything to get moderate movement without scaring the wits out of them!). It does take timing to be successful. Then repeat exactly the same lessons with a rider when they consistently get it right.

In training, you are aiming for an automatic/immediate response. The subject should comply automatically, without having to think about it, much the same as you will change gear when driving a car in response to a change in the sound of the engine. You don't need to think about it.

It was explained to me like this: When a response is trained, the neurological signals will take the shortest path from receptors to the muscles used to perform the action. The impulses go through the cerebellun or spinal cord and by pass the 'thinking part of the brain' as it is quicker. Does that make sense? Forming these pathways usually takes repetition.
 
gunnergundog- sending her back to the professional is the back up plan if i cant get over this minor pot hole on the path to progress myself. Hence my asking for ideas on the forum (as an aside for the sake of clarity, the professional had her for breaking but I have owned her since a foal).

AdorableAlice -yes she understands voice aids from our long lining, and i suppose I do use them much less in the saddle. I hadn't really thought of it like that but it seems silly now not to use them.

Dry Rot- that forming of neurological pathways is what I am trying to achieve. Shes fab on the lines but inclined to argue with a rider.
 
I could have written this OP. I am in the same position with my 4 year old. I am seeking some expert help when my field dries out as I'm sure the problem is me not being clear, rather than him being naughty. Hes also fine with someone walking, and with long lining.
 
How can a poor horse understand leg aids if they haven't been taught that voice and leg aids go together ALWAYS until you can slowly dispense with the voice as described by Dry Rot. This seems to be more of a you problem for not understanding that yourself rather than a their problem because she doesn't understand what you want because your directions aren't clear, not that she is being naughty or thick.

Go back to total obedience on the long reins (using your voice clearly) then follow on under saddle using the same voice aids coupled with your legs; timing is crucial and stop using someone to lead her, it's making her reliant on them as you've found out.
 
I'm confused how she could be up to walk, trot and canter when backed without someone one the ground, but has now forgotten the leg aids. If she was well taught initially and was consistently doing all three gaits in the school she wouldn't have forgotten that leg means go forward. Do you have any video of her from the trainer? Did she go well from your leg when you rode her in October after being backed? Why did she need someone at her head when you were on her over winter if she had been already taught to go forward independently by the trainer?
 
FlashyP thats exactly what I an wondering. She was going well for the trainer and I rode her out from the trainers yard so I know she defiantly was. She always had a thing about bucking leaving the yard and the trainer said 'have someone on the ground with you for the first few weeks as ever few times she seems to want to have a buck'. And we have never really progressed.
 
perhaps she needs to go back for a second time to get her going again? Id rather not send her back as it IS expensive. But if that's the best thing for her its what ill do.
 
For all who kindly commented- a little update:

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it turns out she understood fine- but she has kissing spines and was in pain. Needless to say I'm gutted and really disappointed in myself that I didn't get her checked before and assumed it was behavioural.

Anyway this was taken this morning when she came over for a cuddle

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I'm so sorry that it wasn't the outcome you hoped for :( hopefully not you have a reason though you can start her rehab. I'm so pleased you listened to her rather than trying to push her through it - good on you!
 
Thats really awful, hope you have a sucessful outcome from treatment. However, as you said professional trainer mentioned bucking is it possible she had this back then?
 
I am so sorry to read this. You did say in OP that her back had been checked, so well done for listening to the mare and having further investigations done. What treatment will shhe have?

She has a very pretty face.
 
mayangold said:
it turns out she understood fine- but she has kissing spines and was in pain.
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Absolutely gutting for you OP :( But I was just about to comment saying when mine went like that he had back/shoulder pain and once it was resolved he was fine again. Shes a very lucky pony to have an owner that listened to her and investigated further. You might not have done it immediately, I didnt either! But once you realised there was something else going on you dealt with it properly, and because of that shes a lucky girl :) Fingers crossed that you can find a resolution :)
 
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