Teaching to accept a contact

[asommerville]

I have a rising 5 year old gelding who i backed lightlyl at 3, did a wee bit of work at 4 and now am looking to work a bit harder in order to compete in some dressage.

The problem I have (and I know its my fault - maybe I should have taught him a bit more when he was younger but he was ) is that he is very reluctant to accept a contact and go forward into it. He is getting his saddle checked next week and I am planning on getting his teeth done.

I understand that he needs to be worked 'forward' to go into the contact and have been considering lunging him with a lunging aid (or gadget I suppose ) I am not a fan of these things generally but wondered if anyone could suggest something that might help. As I said he's getting his saddle checked and I'm reluctant to ride until this is done...tbh though in the past he has always been the same even after ensuring his saddle fits, when you try to take a contact he flings his head about and also tries to open his mouth (has a flash on at the mo but again i'm not keen on adding a load of gadgets to baby horses)

So point of this post is can anyone suggest any lunging aids or exercises that I can use to start to teach him to accept a contact? I wondered if the flash was making him throw his head about but he doesn't do it when on the lunge with his bridle on.

Dont know if this is relevent but he is an Arab x ID and has got a short neck

Any advice is as usual much appreciated!

 

[ghostly]

Have you tried lunging in a pessoa? I noticed you said he doesn't throw his head when lunging so you are right to get his saddle checked. Perhaps a couple of sessions in a pessoa or similar will start building the correct muscles and he will be able to replicate this with you on board. As far as him taking the contact, I would use a firm steady hand relaxing the fingers when he does offer to take it down and forward, but not dropping the contact on him either.

Do you feed him on the floor? I would if you don't already as with him already having a shorter neck anything you can do to encourage the stretch will be beneficial.

Once you are sure he is spot on physically and not in any pain it might be a case of tough love until he realises what you want from him.

 

[asommerville]

*bump* any other suggestions ?

 

[Beausmate]

What are you riding him in? When were his teeth last done?

 

[Littlelegs]

Does he go forward properly without a contact, eg when ridden on the buckle?

 

[showjumpingfilly]

Have to agree with ghostly and suggest the pessoa too. Let him work it out whilst on the lunge.

If your saddle turns out to be ok then try to keep your reins at an equal length and ride him forwards into the bridle. Don't worry too much about his outline to start with, but make sure you've got an even contact.
Then work on increase the contact whilst riding forwards, as soon as he gives (even tiny amounts) then you give too.

 

[be positive]

Do you lunge him into a contact, either to your hand if lungeing correctly or other gadget. If he does not take the contact then I would try using two reins and establishing a correct way of going on the two reins before using a pessoa. You can feel him at the end of the reins and encourage him into the contact.

Ridden, I like to get more control from behind, lots of baby leg yielding, moving off the leg in transitions and really going forward while holding a firm, not restrictive contact, I believe that the horse needs to understand it is ok to take a hold and at times you feel as if you are being a little too firm until they relax their jaw and accept the contact.
An baby horse will not always relax and stretch to seek the contact, if you are too light they will just feel as if they are getting no guidance, once they understand you can then encourage them to stretch down and work more over the back.

 

[asommerville]

His teeth were done in october so would be getting done fairly soon tbh

I do usually lunge him in 2 reins but nothing else - side reins etc, dont lunge him in anything anymore apart from the bridle but he does seem to go forward more on the lunge than ridden....maybe im not trying hard enough to get him to go forwards when ridden?

 

[asommerville]

Sorry riding in an eggbutt snaffle , he has a really small mouth and have had to look for a fairly thin one as the usual are too thick and seem to irritate him and almost make him look like he's gagging

 

[Countrychic]

What about trying a French link

 

[Beausmate]

^^Good idea. If he has a small mouth, he may find the single joint fairly uncomfortable.

 

[Littlelegs]

If he goes forward on the lunge I'd work him in side reins on it, building up slowly. Ridden I'd concentrate on getting him moving forward off your leg, its hard to gather him in at the front if there's nothing coming through from behind to push into the contact. Best explanation I ever had was to think of a piece of paper, if you push one end at a time it stays flat (i.e. just contact or just legs) push both together & middle( i.e.back) goes up, hope that makes sense? If he's more forward hacking I'd do my schooling then until he's moving forward into a contact.

 

[Littlelegs]

As far as bits go I like old fashioned copper rollers, encourages them into a contact & as mild as a snaffle

 

[Crazydancer]

My 5 yr old made it perfect clear to me that she did not like her bit!! I thought I'd bought the same one as she'd been ridden in before I bought her, but it wasn't quite the same. She opened her mouth, yanked back at my hands, shook her head etc. Couldn't get any sort of work out of her.
I tried her in a JP snaffle, with the curved sides, and she's been fine with that, I would look at trying another bit for yours. Can you borrow a few to try from other liveries if needs be?

She starts to work from behind after we've done a bit of 'up to hand' work like transitions, and then a bit of leg yielding, as soon as we do this she offers a beautiful contact without any 'suggestion' from my hands, I just keep them level and steady with an even, light contact, and she just goes into them.
Hope that helps!

 

[ausipaliboi]

I had a mare who had a very long mouth and every bit she rode in smacked the roof of her mouth and she was forever chucking her head. At a friends recommendation I used a thick and heavy eggbut and it worked a treat. The weight stopped it from flicking up and smacking the roof of her mouth and she never threw her head again. I really didn't belive a bigger heavier bit would work as I was trying lighter and finer but the big one worked in the end.

 

[**Vanner**]

My boy has a shallow mouth and can't stand a single jointed snaffle. I would seriously recommend going to a french link or lozenge. My boy is in a KK ultra.

You may find you need to encourage him to accept the contact by playing with the bit in his mouth just on the inside rein to encourage him to relax his jaw and soften.

Remember that working in an outline with the back raised is the strongest position for a horse so getting this is fundamental to further training.

 

[M_G]

Sorry riding in an eggbutt snaffle , he has a really small mouth and have had to look for a fairly thin one as the usual are too thick and seem to irritate him and almost make him look like he's gagging

Have you thought about trying a full cheek french link?

I only suggest this as my youngster loves his and actively searches for a contact.

 

[asommerville]

I have tried a french link but he was worse in it tbh...know i sound daft but i think the link was too big for his mouth. have also tried a number of different snaffles and the thin one with the more pronounced curve was the one he seemed to go best in. I hadnt thought about a lozenge tho woild the bit on his tongue be smaller than the french link?

 

[Crazydancer]

Have you tried a mullen mouth snaffle? Without a joint at all? That's the bit I found my old gelding liked best, he's Arab x Welsh and has a small mouth.

 

[asommerville]

* bump * anyone advise on the lozenge bit?

 

[Beausmate]

You can get a ball link bit or one with a peanut link rather than a lozenge if you think the French link/regular size lozenges are too long.

 

[Housemouse]

Try and find a classical trainer who will help you achieve lightness without resorting to training aids.

You need to help your horse to self carriage. A Pessoa or other training aid will work one set of muscles when all should be worked for a symbiotic whole.

The bit you use will make no difference. What is important is that it is used correctly.

 

[Beausmate]

The bit will make a difference if your horse isn't comfortable wearing it.

 

[siennamum]

I wouldn't be too stressed at his age myself. I would work on encouraging him into the outside rein with leg yielding & spirals, moving off the outside leg in turns and really ignoring where his head is at.

When he is gently curved round your inside leg with a light contact on the outside rein a good trick is to open the inside hand slightly (& always forward, never back to you) and turn your thumb over so it is facing in, with your fingers facing upwards. He should drop his head and take the contact down.

 

[Crazydancer]

I wouldn't be too stressed at his age myself. I would work on encouraging him into the outside rein with leg yielding & spirals, moving off the outside leg in turns and really ignoring where his head is at.

When he is gently curved round your inside leg with a light contact on the outside rein a good trick is to open the inside hand slightly (& always forward, never back to you) and turn your thumb over so it is facing in, with your fingers facing upwards. He should drop his head and take the contact down.

While I totally agree with all of the above, I think the problem the OP is having (and I also had) is that none of this is possible if even when holding the lightest of contacts, the horse is having a paddy and flinging his/her head around.... it was very clear in my case that my mare didn't like the bit - and once changed, then yes, all of the above applied.
Now with a bit she's happy with, she 'nose-pokes' to start, and as I'd posted, once she's up to the hand, we do a bit of leg yielding, and then she finds her balance and goes beautifully (although not yet consistently as I'm actually not the greatest of riders!!)

 

[Littlelegs]

crazydancer- whilst this may be true for your horse, ime head flinging when you pick up a contact is due to schooling, & if you want it more specifically, too much hand in comparison to the amount of forwards movement there is, far more often than it is due to the bit. The op herself has said the horse doesn't go forwards, which to me implies this is what needs improving, rather than the bit which is a secondary issue.

 

[Marydoll]

Try and find a classical trainer who will help you achieve lightness without resorting to training aids.

You need to help your horse to self carriage. A Pessoa or other training aid will work one set of muscles when all should be worked for a symbiotic whole.

The bit you use will make no difference. What is important is that it is used correctly.

The bit used needs to suit the conformation of the horses mouth, so i disagree with your statement, the bit used can make a world of difference to the horse.

 

[siennamum]

While I totally agree with all of the above, I think the problem the OP is having (and I also had) is that none of this is possible if even when holding the lightest of contacts, the horse is having a paddy and flinging his/her head around.... it was very clear in my case that my mare didn't like the bit - and once changed, then yes, all of the above applied.
Now with a bit she's happy with, she 'nose-pokes' to start, and as I'd posted, once she's up to the hand, we do a bit of leg yielding, and then she finds her balance and goes beautifully (although not yet consistently as I'm actually not the greatest of riders!!)

Ah, I shoudl have read the original post better.

I would be a bit concerned if the bit were having that kind of an effect tbh.

We hear time and time again about dentists/vets, missing painful teeth so although horse has been checked, I would reinvestigate with a new person. May be throwing good money after bad, but would put your mind at rest OP.

I would then get someone with bitting expertise. You will need the bit to suit the mouth shape. My youngster is currently in a tongue saver, he has a small mouth, hasn't got a fleshy tongue, but hates tongue pressure and loves this bit.

I also like mullen mouth, happy mouths they are very simple and understandable for the horse. The secret is to ensure your hands are doing nothing which can provoke the horse and let it come to understand the bit isn't an enemy. Someone suggested getting a classical trainer, really I would agree, find someone on the ground who will really help get the horse into a frame without hoiking the front end in. They can also tell you if you are doing anything to upset horse, or if he maybe needs riding through it.

 

[bushbaby28]

I have this problem with my tb and have found pole work fantastic as it encourages them to lift their back and stretch to seek a contact. We've been doing this recently and its the first time in 4 years i've honestly felt his mouth! Before, if you held a contact he'd just go behind the bit and evade it. Poles keep it interesting as well so will keep a youngster on his toes.

 

[TigerTail]

Why is he in a flash?

Have you educated him as to what the bit is and for? Ie with flexions etc?

Mouth conformation does play a part with bit acceptance, Ive gone through several my self, however in hand work with a friend who had my mare in just a simple steel snaffle and she was a different horse. A lot can be the hands of the rider and their use