Tennesee Walking Horses OMG The Cruelty!!!!

[Stella]

This was just brought to my attention on another forum. There are many videos showing these classes. I can only get through a couple of minutes of one and then I have seen enough. Here is an example http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=qbGQ9caL_1Q&feature=related

I finally found a video that I could watch all of the way through. This is a CNN report on the welfare (or lack of it) of these poor creatures. http://www.walkinonranch.com/CNN.html At least seeing some people in America standing up against it is heart warming. I recognise that some of the worst gadgets are banned, but why aren't these shows closed down? I say this with all due respect to our American cousins, but the USA is a country of paradoxes. In some things very sophisticated and state of the art, whilst simultaneously accepting of punitive, barbaric and intolerant practices

Many things offend me, not least the hubris that leads to the 'policing of the world', but what is done to these poor horses leaves me truly enranged and distressed!

 

[siennamum]

I couldn't agree more. Utterly vile & pitiful.

 

[LadyJendali]

It deeply saddens me to see this practice.......ive looked at a few on there, how can people find this enjoyable enough to whoop and holler!!!!

 

[Stella]

Why do they want the horse to move in such an odd manner that looks nothing at all like the natural action of any horse?

Did anyone get as far as the canter on that video

Just makes you want to cry as the poor creatures try so hard to keep the weight off their front feet

The bits they use are like nothing on earth too

 

[JadeWisc]

[ QUOTE ]
Why do they want the horse to move in such an odd manner that looks nothing at all like the natural action of any horse?

[/ QUOTE ]


Dressage is not the natural action of a horse either???

What a lot of people do not undestand is that these are gaited horses . They natually move much different. The first vid does look ridiculous though to me . Not my thing at all . These horses look so much better when it is not so exaggerated in my opinion. Watching a well gaited TWH in natural action is beautiful though.

I was not able to see the second vid? Most are trained without any cruelty however and I assume that is why the shows are left to continue. You will find evil people in all forms of horsemanship who get results in less than favorable ways and that is what makes news unfortunatley. Although the following for them is not that large where I am from I doubt most of them are in any distress. Sad for any that are though and unfortunately cruelty to horses happens in all disciplines in all parts of the world

sad fact of life.

Animal welfare is taken very seriously here though and the American horse is better protected than most equines around the globe . I suppose if I were a horse and had to choose.... I would rather have weights put on my front hooves to do a short perfromace , then be taken home and treated like royalty and seriously cared for ,be worth a lot of money with the best of vet care than be a heavilly packed cart horse in a third world country worked to the bone and fed as little as possible with little vet care offered......
????



wish I could watch the second vid. Not working for me

 

[itsme123]

Yes, it's unnatural, and I do not agree with it. Yet people in this country will pay to go and see the Lippizaners, which are trained to do very unnatural movements...

Where does this 'cruelty' begin and end??

From fat show ponies who see no light of day for most of the year, and are ridden by adults except when in the ring (some claim this is cruel)

horses asked to work in a contact

showjumpers, asked to jump far from natural heights.

Dressage horses asked to trot sideways.

stabling a horse...

putting shoes on (which with studs do weigh a fair amount)

horses ridden by fat riders.

Horses asked to have bits in their mouths.


You could say alot of things were 'unnatural', but in RL they're just normal everyday things to us.

 

[Mid]

Actually, TWHs don't rack naturally. They are gaited horses, and they do move differently, but this is an unnatural gait, created by weighted boots, lengthened hooves, and other gadgets.

They usually perform with weighted chains around the fetlocks, but training can be more brutal. Even the tail is fake - It's done by cutting the muscle of the croup, breaking the dock bone, and then bandaged and put in a tail set. The tail set is on whenever the horse is in the stable... It's called Nicking, and was banned in the UK decades ago. Oh, and they add hair extensions.

The gait is made by putting these on the horse's front hooves, as well as nails sticking into the sole of the foot.

Of course, there's soring.

And injections into the hocks to make them crawl...

And they're broken in as yearlings.

And the rider sits on the weakest part of the horse's back.

And the ears are smacked to teach the horse to keep them forwards at all times...

Most dressage is based on the movements a horse performs when playing in the field. Even our old fat highland pony can piaffe when he gets bitten on the bum by one of the other ponies.

Look at his hooves... How can anyone thing this is 'majestic'?!

 

[Stella]

The link to the second video is a bit temperamental! I have found that you have to press stop on the music at the top, then click, hold and pull the bar along very slightly on the video, then click the play button!! I hope it works. I'd really be interested to hear your comments if and when you manage to watch it.

As for dressage. All of the movements, with the exception of tempi changes, are seen naturally in the field. Horses passage and piaffe, extend and collect their strides when showing off or just feeling good

With regard to the tempi changes, although of course they don't do them in sets naturally, they do nevertheless change legs in canter naturally. So dressage is simply harnessing natural movements and teaching horses to exucute them when asked.

I do appreciate that the Tenesse walking horse has a unique action. I have seen videos of them at liberty in the field. However, what is produced in these shows is a weird and cruel parody of their natural action

Charlie - this is just a whole other level of cruelty! And re dressage horses - see above !

 

[dotty1]

One of his videos is of a class for two year old mares and geldings!!!, they are being ridden by huge men. They all look so immature.Dreadful.

 

[Mid]

And this is one of the bits for sale as suitable for breaking in a youngster (or so the tack shop site says)

 

[JadeWisc]

[ QUOTE ]
As for dressage. All of the movements, with the exception of tempi changes, are seen naturally in the field. [/quote}

Oh yes!

My horses are often found performing dressage on their own. The Piaffe is the one Misty does most

 

[JadeWisc]

were you taking the time to explain all of that to me?

bless you.

 

[Stella]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As for dressage. All of the movements, with the exception of tempi changes, are seen naturally in the field. [/quote}

Oh yes!

My horses are often found performing dressage on their own. The Piaffe is the one Misty does most

[/ QUOTE ]
Why be sarcastic? Can't we discuss this like adults? Your horses will be capable of the moves to some extent. Bring a stallion to the yard or put a new mare over the fence, you might just see them transform

 

[kimky]

This is F*king sick. How can any one do this do any animal. Of course a 4inch high shoes will foook up there joints and the chains it just unspeakable !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[JadeWisc]

[ QUOTE ]
As for dressage. All of the movements, with the exception of tempi changes, are seen naturally in the field. [/quote}

Oh yes!

My horses are often found performing dressage on their own. The Piaffe is the one Misty does most

Why be sarcastic? Can't we discuss this like adults? Your horses will be capable of the moves to some extent. Bring a stallion to the yard or put a new mare over the fence, you might just see them transform

[/ QUOTE ]

A horse can flip itself over backwards when scared too ??? I have seen many a scared or excited horses and none has done a dressage routine without being told to. Of course the horses are "capable" of the moves or there would be no dressage. The TWH's are "capable" of the moves in this vid also or they surely could not do it?

I will say I find watching a dressage horse far more beautiful. These TWH look like hyenas to me. Do you think it gets a bad reaction beacause it is akward looking and ugly to those not used to seeing it? It sure looks silly to me
I will still stand my the fact that most of them are under no more stress than any other show horse. Of course there are exceptions but again, same as all forms of horsemanship.

btw...I make a sracastic comment about everything

It is just my way of not taking it all too seriously is all

Not meant to be insulting just fun

I am very much an adult though

( well sometimes I guess

)

 

[Governor]

Arabs aren't gaited horses as far as I know...
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ploSG67K6d8&feature=related

I used to ride a grey arab stallion myself (complete schoolmaster) who certainly didn't move like that. He'd extend beautifully but not in the unatural, half lame stilted manner caused by however they're training/riding this horse.

 

[JadeWisc]

[ QUOTE ]
This is F*king sick. How can any one do this do any animal. Of course a 4inch high shoes will foook up there joints and the chains it just unspeakable !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]


Yes and jumping is great for a horses joints

 

[Mollymillymoo]

Jade I appreciate you want to stick up for your fellow countrymen and women, they've taken a bit of a bashing on here the last day or so! But you cannot seriously tell me you are not shocked by this cruelty? How can you possibly liken dressage to this abuse of immature horses? I will admit abuse occurs abundantly in our racing industry, and I hate it, but I do not get my back up on forums when foreigners point it out. The rubbing of horrible chemicals into 2 year old horses legs, the use of weighted stilt-like shoes and the position of the big riders on those babies backs just makes my blood boil. Dressage does involve some cruelties but nothing in the same league as this. And to be honest I would rather be my cob than any of those poor creatures (how can you consider them to be treated like royalty when they suffer such horrible abuse?), loved by a family, lightly competed in spheres he enjoys, rugged up when its cold, given plenty of food and vet care readily available when its needed. Please don't take offence but can you not see our point?

 

[JadeWisc]

Am I the only person thinking that man is an awful rider? He looks like me on my mare

The horse is so pretty though! Would look better not being ridden like that

 

[Stella]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As for dressage. All of the movements, with the exception of tempi changes, are seen naturally in the field. [/quote}

Oh yes!

My horses are often found performing dressage on their own. The Piaffe is the one Misty does most

Why be sarcastic? Can't we discuss this like adults? Your horses will be capable of the moves to some extent. Bring a stallion to the yard or put a new mare over the fence, you might just see them transform

[/ QUOTE ]

A horse can flip itself over backwards when scared too ??? I have seen many a scared or excited horses and none has done a dressage routine without being told to. Of course the horses are "capable" of the moves or there would be no dressage. The TWH's are "capable" of the moves in this vid also or they surely could not do it?

I will say I find watching a dressage horse far more beautiful. These TWH look like hyenas to me. Do you think it gets a bad reaction beacause it is akward looking and ugly to those not used to seeing it? It sure looks silly to me
I will still stand my the fact that most of them are under no more stress than any other show horse. Of course there are exceptions but again, same as all forms of horsemanship.

btw...I make a sracastic comment about everything

It is just my way of not taking it all too seriously is all

Not meant to be insulting just fun

I am very much an adult though

( well sometimes I guess

)

[/ QUOTE ] Did you watch the second video - the CNN report? If you did and you still think there is little or no cruely in this, then I don't know what to say

Back to dressage - We don't choose to harness and train the fear reactions though

What is your point here?

 

[Mollymillymoo]

your poor mare! lol I'm sure you don't ride like that

I really don't like the way they call it 'english pleasure', we do not ride like that! lol
but that horse does not look nice, I wonder how long it will take before people start to realise that isn't really good for their animals.

 

[Governor]

[ QUOTE ]
Am I the only person thinking that man is an awful rider? He looks like me on my mare

The horse is so pretty though! Would look better not being ridden like that

[/ QUOTE ]

I know its pretty diabolical (but hey I can't talk)...always helps to sit on a more comfy part of the horse's back though.

Check this out...could be the same horse but just ridden in a completely different way (granted the rider is a bit big) -
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=FqFwfWum1l8&feature=related

 

[Eccles]

Absolutely shocking and totally wrong.

Completely incomparable to dressage, horse/ponies can naturally perform these movements in the field.

Makes me mad!

 

[JadeWisc]

nooooooooo

I never stuck up for any cruelty!

I would never do that! I was not even able to see the second vid so was only making comments about other parts of the OP. I was saying that the average gaited show horse prob has a pretty good life as compared to many horses around the world. I will NOT condone soring or evil training methods though. This I made clear and agree with!

The compariosn with dressage was ONLY made when someone said this was not the "natural movement of a horse" The compariosn stopped there and I just wanted to suggest that many forms of horsemanship have horses performing less than common or natural moves that a horse does on a regular basis on it's own.

Lord I don't want to see any animal suffer

 

[JadeWisc]

[ QUOTE ]
Did you watch the second video - the CNN report? If you did and you still think there is little or no cruely in this, then I don't know what to say

[/ QUOTE ]


stella,

I NEVER said I did not think what happened in vid two was cruel. I made it clear that I was unable to watch it and said I am aware bad things happen but that it is not widespread. I also was quite clear I am against any form of cruelty

[ QUOTE ]

Back to dressage - We don't choose to harness and train the fear reactions though

What is your point here?

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not sure I understand what you are asking me here? What did I say about that topic? I cannot remember if I did and do not know how I am supposed to respond to this

 

[Mollymillymoo]

Maybe I read your posts the wrong way but it seemed you were suggesting that dressage and jumping practises are just as cruel, and you wouldn't mind being one of these TWH's as they are well cared for. And I'm sure they are outside of their training, they look healthy enough. I've forgotten my point now but I'm sure it'll come back to me lol

 

[kirstyhen]

I dont like it, however i think it would be easy to disagree knowing ony one side of the story and not being used to it. Im sure aspects of it are cruel, and certain producers probably employ more cruel methods than others, but this is true of anything in the horse world.
People that produce horses quickly and take short cuts usually employ cruel methods but there are people that do it correctly and take their time. Its in all disciplines, putting side reins on in the stable, rapping, rollkur (whatever you think some people see it as cruel) feeding horses for fatness instead of taking the time to build condition through correctly working them.
Its easy to judge and bag all people into one group, without seeing the full story.
If i was to base my schooling on what my horse did in the field, id spend all day grazing him on the verge that runs round the school and maybe wander about a bit!!!

 

[faerie666]

[ QUOTE ]
Arabs aren't gaited horses as far as I know...
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ploSG67K6d8&feature=related

I used to ride a grey arab stallion myself (complete schoolmaster) who certainly didn't move like that. He'd extend beautifully but not in the unatural, half lame stilted manner caused by however they're training/riding this horse.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, the Arab in this video, whilst it does seem to be wearing "stilts" on his front feet to give him knee action, he is still trotting instead of gaiting.
The TWHs gait is a two beat movement where the front and back leg on the same side move simultaneously and there is always one pair of legs on the ground, whereas trot is two beat with diagonal front and back legs moving at the same time with a phase in the air.
I don't agree with the practice either btw., just wanted to point out that the sequence of movement is different in gaited horses.

 

[JadeWisc]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe I read your posts the wrong way but it seemed you were suggesting that dressage and jumping practises are just as cruel, and you wouldn't mind being one of these TWH's as they are well cared for. And I'm sure they are outside of their training, they look healthy enough. I've forgotten my point now but I'm sure it'll come back to me lol

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you are summing it all up very vaguely and putting it all together to sound like I made a point I did not make. I did touch on each of those topics but it was not to be all summed up as you have written here.

For example...I did say I would rather be a TWH with weights but only compared to a cart horse in a third world counrty. I hardly said They ALL were well cared for and I never condoned any cruelty that could happen.

The compariosn to jumping horses came when someone said what they do to TWH must be bad for their joints. I would assume a lot if jumping could be the same?

The comparison to dressage came when someone mentiond a horses natural movement
NEVER did I say that dressage or jumping were "just as cruel" to whatever was shown in vid two.
You see my point

 

[kirstyhen]

I see what your saying!!!