Text message from the BSJA re: VOSA

N

NewHeights_SJ

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Not sure if this has been posted already but i recieved this text from the BSJA today:

'Be aware VOSA is at shows checking vehicles for road worthiness and drivers Re. Tacho and log books. Are you legal? Hickstead Derby week etc.'

What exactly do they check for re 'road worthiness'? Are tachos only for lorries over 7.5ton or commercial lorries? Log books?

Im sure alot of us will be travelling to Hickstead or other shows in the next couple of weeks and i thought it might be worth knowing what we need to do to make sure we are all legal.

N xx
 
i got this text too, and dont really understand lol - so im interested to any replies
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xx
 
I've put these 2 questions in the Latest News post but might get more chance of an answer in here......


So what happens if your passport is with the PIO being updated (change of ownership) and is taking ages...and you have entered SJ at the weekend which involves a lorry trip? I know you should have your passport with you but what happens in this case?

And does the driving hours issue affect drivers of lorries that come into the category above 3.5 tonnes but below LGV level?

Any ideas anyone?
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding & I would be willing to test this in court is...
If I was asked to present my passport & it was away with the issuing body then I would expect some form of grace. The same ought to be applied to driving licences that are with the DVLA.
I didn't think there was any form of legislation that covered the driving hours ....yet. I thought this was still at consultation stage.

>>>Am I about to be corrected twice?>>>>>
 
Do you not take a photocopy of the passport and sales document/receipt, signed by previous owner before sending off your new horse's passport? That way you have some proof of ownership if you are stopped.
 
I always take a copy of passports if sending them off - yards nearly always keep copies of passports as well in case they are inspected.

The driving hours one is difficult. Strictly if you are driving an HGV even if taxed as Private HGV and you may be receiving any reward you should have an operators licence. If you should have an operators licence then you are covered by the working hours which means those of us with full time jobs could never drive! Driving for reward can be as simple as someone contributing towards diesel or if you are going to a show where you might win something etc etc. I've never tested my theory as I've never been asked that I drive our lorry for my daughter and wife - I meet all the lorry expenses, I don't ride or own any of the horses I move so my argument would be I am never in a position to receive any reward. This area is a minefield which the police/VOSA keep threatening to start on - fine is about £3K
 
I think the point of the text from the bsja was the fact that VOSA were at South of England show last Thursday and Friday pulling in lots of horseboxes.
From what I understand the passports were not the issue here, it was whether the lorries were roadworthy and tachographs being not used or used but incorrectly.

Several people were warned/cautioned etc. No sure if anyone was actually fined.
 
Near me is a VOSA roadside testing place. They have in the past pulled us over, performed a MOT, weighed the vehicle and checked passports.

My lorry is TACHO excempt as it is a 7.5t and I am a private person. I think though that the TACHO needs to work, and should have its initial calibration - there will be a sticker on it. When my lorry was plated they did check that the TACHO worked, I had to sign a form to say I didn't need to use one.

The other thing they can check on is your mirrors as the law on those changed recently.
 
OH was pulled over by police at one of these checks that are a joint initiative by various agences, diesel tank was dipped, tax, mot and insurance were checked and trading standards asked to see passports (which we do not carry as I consider they are at risk of being stolen) - as lorry often left unattended and unlocked!, tacho was checked (ours is currently exempt as private HGV - think this changes in Sept 09 when tacho will need to be calibrated. Trading Standards are supposed to CORRECTLY ID every horse/pony on vehicle but in reality they cant without unloading and these are people with no experience of horses! When OH asked the TS Officer how she would do this she said she would crawl through the horse area checking the (4) ponies on board!!!!!! They wouldnt have even be able to tell if they were mares or geldings!!!! OH suggested to TS Officer that she would be breaking every H & S rule in the book by doing so!
Also spoke to VOSA & DSA re. driving hours following this check and told unless your occupation is for hire and reward then it does not apply and they gave example of a teacher driving the school minibus - they are teachers NOT drivers so therefore would not be clocking up ANY driving hours over a weekly period so therefore come the weekend can drive without concern!
 
[ QUOTE ]
OH was pulled over by police at one of these checks that are a joint initiative by various agences, diesel tank was dipped, tax, mot and insurance were checked and trading standards asked to see passports (which we do not carry as I consider they are at risk of being stolen) - as lorry often left unattended and unlocked!, tacho was checked (ours is currently exempt as private HGV - think this changes in Sept 09 when tacho will need to be calibrated. Trading Standards are supposed to CORRECTLY ID every horse/pony on vehicle but in reality they cant without unloading and these are people with no experience of horses! When OH asked the TS Officer how she would do this she said she would crawl through the horse area checking the (4) ponies on board!!!!!! They wouldnt have even be able to tell if they were mares or geldings!!!! OH suggested to TS Officer that she would be breaking every H & S rule in the book by doing so!
Also spoke to VOSA & DSA re. driving hours following this check and told unless your occupation is for hire and reward then it does not apply and they gave example of a teacher driving the school minibus - they are teachers NOT drivers so therefore would not be clocking up ANY driving hours over a weekly period so therefore come the weekend can drive without concern!

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this the question that is coming up is if you are driving for reward - it is being suggested that if you are driving to compete where you might win something that is potentially driving for reward, likewise if you transport someone else's horse, even if with your own, and they pay towards expenses you are again driving for reward. Then the working hours kicks in and they look at your total working hours not just hours driving and the offence is not having an operators licence.
 
Know of someone at SOE who had pro- obition(sp) order put on HGV unable to move vehicle till proved fit, had to stay overnight and had fine
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When went for plating recently they warned us they were out checking in the local area
 
When VOSA carry out roadside checks they are interested in two main areas.Drivers hours and vehicle roadworthyness.
Every driver regardless of the weight of there vehicle,has a legal obligation not to drive when too tired. Since this is rather subjective and unfortunately only tends to come to light after a serious accident,for many years commercial operators have been bound by the drivers hours regulations.
One of the requirements being the keeping of records (tachograph).
Due to the fact that a significant number of LGV,s(over 7.5 tonnes)are really being used commercially,and hiding behind the pretence of being used privately,the regulations have been changed to include the requirement to keep to the drivers hours regulations and to use the tachograph.
With regard to roadworthyness.The vehicle should be able to pass an MOT test at any time,and that is effectively what they will check at the roadside.
Drivers of commercial vehicles are required to carry out daily checks prior to driving,but inreality, everyone should.Items such as tyre tread,pressure and sidewall cracking.Lights,Indicators,mirrors,oil water screenwash,Brake fluid if applicable,brakes,basicly anything that you can check with a carefull walk round.One thing I have left off this list is wheel nuts,I mention it seperately because it IS SO IMPORTANT. Wheel nuts do work loose.it is a simple fact of life and has little to do with them not being tightend correctly.If you have pretty chrome wheel covers,take them off and THROW THEM AWAY,they are dangerous,you cannot check the wheel studs.(the first sign of a loose nut is a radial track of brown rust running out from the stud).
Finally, VOSA also can check the vehicle weight at the roadside.The fines for being overloaded are huge!
 
If your lorry is under 7.5 tonnes and is for private use it should be tacho exempt - i think there may aslo be an age limit on this though, Mine is M reg & i fill out a form each year for the plating so they don't check the calibration of the Tacho.
Roadworthyness is making sure all your lights work, tyres are not worn, there is nothing handing off or dangerous, that sort of thing. They have the power to dip your tank to make sure you are not running on red diesel.
At present my understanding is that if your lorry is private HGV & under the 7.5 tonnes then the driver hours do not apply if you do not drive commercialy for a living.
If the vehicle is newer than a 2000 Registration then new rules can in regarding mirrors & the requirment to fit extra mirrors to look down to see cyclists & pedestrians.
I would suggest as a matter of good habit that you should photocopy the passport before you send it off, so you can show the horse has one & get the PIO to acknowledge their recipt of it, so you can show it has gone to them.
 
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