Thanks to the support given to Ruby

M

magic104

Well-Known Member
Joined
2 April 2006
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www.jc-countryside.co.uk
I am just so excited had to share. After all the support shown to Ruby's owner on breeding from her I am taking the plunge again. Sooooo have decided to breed from King. It would make more sense as this way I can increase my chances of getting a filly & I get to carry on with Flicks line. He moves well & has good bone & though a bit colty sure he has a good temperment like his parents. Because he has the bone, thought I would find a couple of TB mares. I would never have considered this option if it were not for the encouragement shown for others. I know it is slightly different, but only in that he is a colt & will be donating a bit of sperm.

I may also consider a nice ISH mare, but TB's are so cheap to pick up & I can wait until the sales in Jan/Feb time. So exciting to think in 2014 I could actually have my filly!!
 
It is not meant to be. King is a lovely stamp of horse & I want a filly. Lucky for me he is a colt as now I have more chances of getting my filly as he can pregnate more then one mare, hopefully. He has a pedigree, he moves nicely, he has a good temperment & I have even been told he may have stallion potential anyway.

And thanks to you guys no one can call me irresponsible, well they can but it would be a bit pot, kettle, black!!
 
magic104 said:
And thanks to you guys no one can call me irresponsible, well they can but it would be a bit pot, kettle, black!!
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you can look at his 2 ways... at face value - your a hypocrite and not at face value - your acting like a child

As for other people trying to start an argument - really, other people?
 
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GinnieRedwings said:
Magic, this is simply not funny :-(
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Sportznight said:
Ditto Ginny!
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Maesfen said:
Wrong place M, surprised at your stupidity; some very impressionable people visit here that will take that the wrong way.
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Until yesterday, I had thought better of you Magic, when someone asks for constructive critism, you could give your opinion and be constructive without being so harsh and as for this thread, well your just being silly now.
 
Well for your information guys there has been more then 1 person supporting MY view on this

"Thankfully there are plenty on here that will give you suggestions on stallions, for me your mare is not good enough to breed from. Judging by the photos obvious conformation problems, long backed, shallow feet, upright pasterns. She also looks to be built down hill, it is just not enough to have a good temperment. To add to it all you have no idea of how she is made up as you dont know her breeding. You are going to find a stallion who really stamps his stock, Legrand & Htobago seem to do that, though if I had a stallion I would be worried about using him on this mare.

The harsh reality is your circumstances could change where you are not able to keep the offspring & unless she has a fantastic competition record it will never bring back the cost of getting it on the ground. I am truely sorry, but I for one think this mare represents all that is wrong in UK breeding. I honestly do not mean to be harsh, & I feel awful, as you obviously love her very much, but think very hard on your choice of stallion. As I said you will get plenty of suggestions & there will be others who think your mare is suitable. As she has already bred a foal, who was the sire & do you have any photos to give an indication of the sort of foal she can produce?"

I am not bothered by what you think as it is neither here nor there & as I said there are plenty of others who feel your just looking for an argument or that you are blind to the mares faults - "for me your mare is not good enough to breed from." For ME that would be MY opinion

"Judging by the photos obvious conformation problems, long backed, shallow feet, upright pasterns. She also looks to be built down hill," The comment Judging by the photos indicates just that

"it is just not enough to have a good temperment." - So you lot dont agree then??

To add to it all you have no idea of how she is made up as you dont know her breeding. You are going to (have to) find a stallion who really stamps his stock, Legrand & Htobago seem to do that, though if I had a stallion I would be worried about using him on this mare- The mare has no known breeding therefore it is normal to find a stallion who can stamp his mark to try to narrow down what you might get. And IF I owned the stallion my concern would be if the offspring was not great would that reflect badly on my stallion.

The stallion is not a miracle worker, the mare is 60/70% of the foal & therefore the important factor when breeding. For some reason you guys are so hung up on trashing my opinion, trying to twist what I am saying that you are loosing sight of that. Your energies would have been better spent giving the poster stallion suggestions that might give her what she wants. Instead you turned that thread into a war of words, because there is no way I was going to lay down & let you all make me out to be something I am NOT. Even likened me to KR, cheeky bugger. I have on many occasions kept my thoughts to myself, but I am seeing more & more horses being bred that shouldn't & more & more owners who only just about know one end of a horse from another. Despite BHS, H&H & charities telling us to think hard about breeding people who should know better continue to encourage those with unsuitable mares. Or stallions are suggested when you dont even has a clue as to what the mare looks like. I kept quiet through it all because I knew full well as soon as you voice an opinion against the tide you get the comments seen yesterday & today. I will stand up for myself & if I am wrong I will apologise. You go on about me not leaving it alone, yet time & again I had to keep saying NOT once did I tell this mare owner not to breed from her mare. Yet someone just had to keep on about it, twisting what was said trying to keep the argument going.

As for bringing the FB comment onto here, well I have seen others do just that without ANYONE calling them for it. Double bl**dy standards there me thinks!! So yes I thought better of you to, but there you go, both made a mistake. And while people think it ok to breed from mares with so many faults, (but fab temperments) the likes of KR can state that UK breeding standards are low, because people like you have just given them the amunition. So yes we are divided on what should & should not be bred from because what you are suggesting sadly is not rare at all. If so all I can say is that hen is more like a great white!!
 
TBH if I want to breed from my cob mare I will, its my money my mare and my risk. I personally dont give a monkeys what the likes of KR or anyone else has to say about the breeding of horses in the UK, I dont want a sports horse to plod around the lanes on. I want a nice 15.2HH approx saint of a horse, which is something most studs do not produce.
Bloodlines are just money makers in your world, in my world they mean nothing. I have seen far too many people buy horses that are way out of their league, who are just parked up in the field because their owners cannot cope with them in the saddle out on a hack.
And I am pretty sure as a mare owner I realize that a stallion is only 50% of the resulting foal, we are not silly enough to think the stallion can improve every fault just as a mare cannot improve any of the stallions faults, because we all know there is no such thing as perfection in the horse world.
I really believe you have important point to make, maybe you need to re word them in a nicer way as you do come across as rather aggressive on the subject, its like us everyday mare owners are simply not worthy of breeding from our ordinary mares with no competition records. :D
 
Sigh...... I haven't likened you to KR. Why? Because I wouldn't want to insult him.

THE END (well for me anyway, I pretty sure 'Last-word Magic' will live up to her name and come back with 'War and Peace The Sequel Part 325')
 
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Alba said:
Sigh...... I haven't likened you to KR. Why? Because I wouldn't want to insult him.

THE END (well for me anyway, I pretty sure 'Last-word Magic' will live up to her name and come back with 'War and Peace The Sequel Part 325')
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Would not want to disapoint now. Surprised you did not suggest either of your colts?

For 2012 onwards

Refined and athletic Cremello Colt http://www.halonasportshorses.co.uk/amaree.htm
From 2012 onwards

Buckskin & White Warmblood with real presence & wow factor http://www.halonasportshorses.co.uk/Kenzo.htm
 
Oh no, not more phone calls - sorry guys - these boys are at private stud only, offspring available next year though, the Amaree x Dietlinde is already booked and so is the Kenzo x Crystal Leda but others available :-)
 
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Magic this is all about your boy which you clearly think even at 2 months old is worthy so I am surprised you haven't offered him if the owner is willing to wait a couple of years.

I see you have very wisely removed the photo of him lying next to the potentially LETHAL fencing. Maybe that is something that should be taken into consideration before anyone breeds, do you have the facilities to keep your much longed for baby safe?

Wow, thats some name for him to live up too!

http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=10780301
 
Magic - why do you feel the need to name people, who for whatever reason, do not post under their actual name. I can understand you perhaps feeling somewhat lambasted atm, however it is my opinion that to a certain extent, you have brought the various criticisms of your perceived posting style, on this thread and others, on yourself. It's a shame really, as more often than not you do offer constructive criticism, however I truly too feel that sometimes you need to think a bit, before you post.
 
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magic104,

somewhere along the line, either I've missed something, or you've been at the bottle.

By PM if you'd prefer, but for heavens sake, what are you on about?

Alec.
 
Alec Swan said:
magic104,

somewhere along the line, either I've missed something, or you've been at the bottle.

By PM if you'd prefer, but for heavens sake, what are you on about?

Alec.
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Alec it all started with this thread Another Stallion Suggestions - With pics by mouseinthehouse who funny enough has been monitoring proceedings ever since they posted the photo & request. I unwittingly have been drawn into nothing more then a sh&tstirring excercise. But hey ho, it has been an enlighting couple of days!!
 
FTR, I never questioned your opinion or your right to have your opinion, nor said if I agreed or disagreed with that opinion! I simply pointed out the way you put your point of view across is unnecessarily harsh and could be seen in a way that it may/may not be intended. Everything else, as far as where my involvement is concerned, has been made up in your imagination, so get your facts right.
 
Bezique said:
FTR, I never questioned your opinion or your right to have your opinion, nor said if I agreed or disagreed with that opinion! I simply pointed out the way you put your point of view across is unnecessarily harsh and could be seen in a way that it may/may not be intended. Everything else, as far as where my involvement is concerned, has been made up in your imagination, so get your facts right.
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I have not imagined anything, it is there in black & white. In the past I have stood up for you, even at your request. You paid me back by pointing to my post on the FB page which is a closed page. Neither of us are perfect, but mine was a genuine error, you deliberatly posted that. So as I said no imagination, I have seen the connection with you & at least one other (Alba), so yes I would say you are acting like a pack, because you are all connected.

I got drawn in, my tough luck, but I have always defended myself along with others if I feel they are being unjustly treated, as you well know. Known of you were capable of debating this, it was turned into something personal. Fine, I hope you are all happy to have been drawn in along side myself to someones idea of a wind up. Anyway have a good life, its late & I have had a long day so off to bed.
 
Bezique said:
FTR, I never questioned your opinion or your right to have your opinion, nor said if I agreed or disagreed with that opinion! I simply pointed out the way you put your point of view across is unnecessarily harsh and could be seen in a way that it may/may not be intended. Everything else, as far as where my involvement is concerned, has been made up in your imagination, so get your facts right.
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magic104 said:
I have not imagined anything, it is there in black & white. In the past I have stood up for you, even at your request. You paid me back by pointing to my post on the FB page which is a closed page. Neither of us are perfect, but mine was a genuine error, you deliberatly posted that. So as I said no imagination, I have seen the connection with you & at least one other (Alba), so yes I would say you are acting like a pack, because you are all connected.

I got drawn in, my tough luck, but I have always defended myself along with others if I feel they are being unjustly treated, as you well know. Known of you were capable of debating this, it was turned into something personal. Fine, I hope you are all happy to have been drawn in along side myself to someones idea of a wind up. Anyway have a good life, its late & I have had a long day so off to bed.
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Tell me I'm wrong, if I am, but it seems to me that you're hanging out your washing, and it isn't a particularly edifying experience.

Might I suggest that you resort to the age old system, whereby we (sorry, that's you) save ourselves untold embarrassment? It's mostly done by PM, amongst the more civilised.

Alec.

Ets, I'm almost tempted to send the more virulent, a virtual razor, not for the purpose of self harm, but to remove male plumage! a.
 
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Like to play on the forum before going to bed. Nice relaxation. Having read these posts, I am not only none the wiser, but I need a sedative. Bad grammar, bad spelling, incomprehensible arguments, and a load of vitriol. One thing, its certainly put me off the idea of breeding.......................
 
Rose Folly said:
Like to play on the forum before going to bed. Nice relaxation. Having read these posts, I am not only none the wiser, but I need a sedative. Bad grammar, bad spelling, incomprehensible arguments, and a load of vitriol. One thing, its certainly put me off the idea of breeding.......................
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Mostly, or so it seems, you do need to apply for permission! ;)

Alec.
 
Come on everybody - let this go now - from an outsiders point of view it appears to be achieving nothing but bad feeling.....draw a line and move on x
 
stoneybroke said:
Come on everybody - let this go now - from an outsiders point of view it appears to be achieving nothing but bad feeling.....draw a line and move on x
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Whilst I agree, I have to say, that this thread and others in here atm, are good examples of why I NEVER post about my own horses on here any more and in fact, rarely post these days at all!
 
I've watched the unpleasant unfolding of these threads, also trying not to join in. After all, magic was once very nice to me and called me a cute little terrier puppy when I wouldn't let a topic go. Its the nicest thing anybody has said to me on here. (Sniff).

However, this whole thing; judging a horse by one photo... Now I looked at the link to Magic's foal and purported stallion prospect. Then I looked at his breeding; this is his grandsire, Cavalier Royale:

http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?showpic=10213060&nm=2&time=1312703286

First time I had actually seen a conformation shot of him. If you didn't know who he is and what he's done for Irish breeding, what would you think? Horribly long backed and shallow, a horse in two halves; steep shoulder leading to an awkward neck and head set; rather upright front pastern, hind legs awkwardly camped out (those over-long hind legs being the source of his power and jump, of course). Of course, in hindsight we know he's a great sire; we focus on his ability, the jump you see in the other picture and the way in which he has nicked with the Irish mares. But if some poor innocent had posted his picture on HHO and said "This is my young colt; I don't know his breeding but I like him and I am going to keep him entire" I wonder what sort of response they would have received?

In the end its down to the breeder; you have to know your horse and use your judgement.

With that in mind I would be interested - genuinely interested - to know how Magic REALLY rates her colt and views her mare's performance as a brood mare.

Myself, I'm ambivalent here; I can fully understand someone breeding from a mare they love, but I still couldn't bring myself to use a stallion with the conformation of Cavalier Royalle, even though I know I'm missing out.

Tricky, eh?
 
I'm a bit biased as Cavalier Royale is my shared mare Izzy's sire. She is a wonderful old fashioned type and has just produced the most amazing foal herself. I think the difference with this sire is, he IS proven and has proven offspring on the ground over many years. It may have been a gamble to use him in his first year at stud, but now I would have no hesitation in using him.

I do think using photographs is a very difficult way to judge conformation. I know with my own mares I can take 20 photos and get 18 which makes them look as they though are just plain weird, and 2 which will show them as they really are (not weird!). Photos in winter woollies are even more impossible.

I do find it hard though, and this is against no one in particular, as many have said it on here, when breeders suggest other people should not breed but buy. That said, if a mare or stallion is obviously hideously put together, or has a condition which can be inherited etc, I think people are right to point that out - but do it kindly, this is after all someone's beloved horse. I actually can't really remember the photo of the original mare on here, only that I remember wishing we could see a summer photo of her without all her hair - I know one of mine looks like a yak in winter and never gives a true idea of what lies underneath.

Finally, those who do breed sport horses (and hopefully that is what I have bred, they aren't old enough to know yet if they will go on to compete) - should still be breeding horses that the majority of riders can ride and owners gain pleasure from owning. It doesn't do any horse any favours to be completely nutty and rideable by only one person in the world.
 
Nice post, HBM, and certainly no insult intended to your Cavalier Royalle descendant. I picked this stallion, of course, because his reputation is secure and he cannot be harmed by negative comment.

One thing I find myself wondering; if we bred out the apparent faults, would we breed out the ability? Those grasshopper hind legs, for example. The massive engine and the lightweight body. Maybe the steep shoulder gives a higher action which is useful here? Maybe this is an exaggerated physique which is actually helpful to this horse's performance and that of his offspring; even though (speaking in general) there may be soundness issues arising from exaggeration or specialisation to suit a given discipline?
 
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