That's it! Send for the Young Ones!

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flatcoat2

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So we lost again. All credit to Tim and Ben who rode so well. I don't think Nick rode well at all - a horse can only do so much. I am sorry about Peppermill but it really is time our Show Jumping selectors woke up and realised what talent they have in the younger generation instead of relying on older riders who get good horses.
Start persuading owners to allow some of our fantastic youngsters to ride their good horses and send the older ones on foot as mentors and guides.
I know Ellen was meant to go but instead of sending an older one why not accept that it might not be this year for a medal but send another one who will benefit in four years time.
 
yes, as long as they have a horse that's up to it. those were huge courses, heartbreaking for a horse without serious scope to try to jump. when the best in the world are mostly having one or two down, and clear rounds are as scarce as that...! it wouldn't do any of our fantastic young riders any good to go there and have 6 down, would it?!
if Peppermill had been right, we might be celebrating now. perhaps he only has a pulled muscle. we all know how hard it is to keep horses 100% right.
 
I am sure Bezzie Maddon and Ian Miller would agree with you. Any selection has got to be made on an unbias opinion of how good the combination is at the time whether young or old, male or female. Remember these old' riders got us to the Olympics in the first place. Personally I think Derek has done a great job, but once these Olympics are over, I would like to see a new manager in place to build a competitve pool of combinations for 2012.

I would love to see long term horse and rider combinations, but it is a very expensive sport and if someone comes along and offers substantial money for a horse, the owner has got to be either very rich or stupid not to take it. As with Potofino and Peppermill, a horse is only as good as it's last event.
 
I agree in theory. I am very disappointed with our performance I have to say. All credit to Ben though, he was definatly the best we had in our team. I will proberly get shot down but I wouldn't like to see any of the older three on our team for 2012.
 
i don't think age has anything to do with it. look at Geoff Billington in the Derby! as said above, it's about whichever combination is going best at the time, and I would add that it's about who is likely to cope best with immense pressure. the Whitakers are masters at this, all that experience is invaluable, but Ben Maher showed today that he's well up to it too.
 
I think the results were disappointing but horses are horses and when you consider the investment financially, emotionally etc of finding a horse good enough to go to the Olympics, everyone connected must be feeling desperate today. Imagine being an owner and have your horse go lame at arguably the best comp in the world, imagine being the rider after all that preparation.

Just a thought, for those that own showjumping horses I would suggest you have to have a very good relationship with the rider you choose and older people with the money to buy/ keep them would prob tend to air towards an older rider on the same wave length. Could this be one reason why the top horses gravitate to older riders and now Ben is becoming more acknowledged he will attract some good horses ( as he already is )
 
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I agree in theory. I am very disappointed with our performance I have to say. All credit to Ben though, he was definatly the best we had in our team. I will proberly get shot down but I wouldn't like to see any of the older three on our team for 2012.

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Exactly. I don't suggest young inexperienced horses should be going to the Olympics but somehow owners of these more experienced horses should be persuaded they be given to the younger riders. This has always been the argument for keeping the older riders - that owners want the best. How do the youngsters prove themselves if they are never given the horse that is up to that level so that they get the experience.
Let's hope this lesson is learnt for 2012. How long is it since GB Show Jumping Team brought home a medal as a team?
 
dont forget next year we are the home side for the European championships. we have no presure to qualify for 2012 there or WEG 2010 ( i believe the next hosts of th olympics automatically qualify for those as well) so i agree we should start building our team for the next olympics now.
 
So you're advocating "encouraged" jocking off? That a rider who has produced a horse should be asked to hand it over to someone with a less proven record?

Or that people should spend the half a million or so pounds it takes to buy a promising international showjumper for someone they have no ongoing relationship with?

No offence, but I don't think people with that sort of money to spend would appreciate being told they need to finance riders proving themselves.

As it is, as it always has been. Younger riders get successively better horses until they can break through and get a good one. Somebody pays for it - often, to be honest, a family member or other supportive individual. OR that person is so talented he/she simply cannot be denied. McLain and Eric (leaving out their respective troubles) were STARS when they were teenagers, winning in the Open ring when they were barely old enough to drive. Although this neither was at his first Olympics it's taken them 15-20 years to get the experience and the backing to help anchor a team not just contribute to it.

And, as said, Ian and Beezie might take exception to a "youth is everything" system. The fact is they still get rides because they still win. If they stopped winning for any length of time you can bet their sponsored horses would soon be with other riders, regardless of age.

You can't judge on one competition and the Olympics is a particularly unreliable one. Success rarely come just from picking the right people, it comes from developing enough people and horses that the pool is deep enough to draw not only the rider "on form" but to have enough of them to pick from. Easier said than done.

The biggest problem is money is dependent on results so the worse a team does the less money there is for the next development stage. Often this means there are cycles where many riders and horses are either coming up or going down, not primed for the day. You can bet they'll be younger riders in 2012 because the wheel will go around again - one day Ben will be the old man!
 
I understand what you are trying to say but our 'oldies' don't always win by any means, if they did then we wouldn't be looking for change. We are not that successful in team competitions any more.
The young are hungrier for the challenge of representing their country.
 
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I understand what you are trying to say but our 'oldies' don't always win by any means, if they did then we wouldn't be looking for change. We are not that successful in team competitions any more.
The young are hungrier for the challenge of representing their country.

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I agree with this if I'm honest; the youngsters have got to be given a chance in the first place to gain the experience of international competition and that won't happen if the old men are always on the team en bloc as they seem to be/have been up til now.
Would it not be an idea to have two oldies to be mentors to two younger ones on teams for a while so they can learn the ropes and the difference between foreign and national competitions; it's the only way they're going to learn enough for 2012 IMO.
Full marks to Ben and Tim today but I'm afraid to say, Nick looked like a puff daddy out there!
 
Surely one of our biggest problems is lack of horsepower? Even our top riders don't really have a true second string of really top class horse. Take Peppermill away & John's not really got much else at that level, Michael & Tim are in the same boat. Arko is certainly brilliant but only on his day, and as much as I love Russell I don't think he's quite at this level. AFAIK Rolette is Ben's only real horse at this level also.

There's not much of a pool to choose from either, as we've sadly seen here. Take away a couple & we're struggling to fill a team. Yes there's riders who have been left at home, but can we honestly say their horses would have coped? Rolette may be young but she is proven at this level whereas Peter Charles' horse isn't (I don't think, correct me if I'm wrong :-)). And it's not just a case of coming out & jumping a GP, it's several rounds over several days they've got to cope with.

Why don't we have the horse power we used to? Is it a lack of support from the BSJA, poor investment in breeding, fundamental issues with the show circuit (classes not upto height etc) or something else? We've certainly got the riders, whatever their age, why not the horses?
 
Well Tarrsteps, I agree with what you say. Why should a rider be 'jocked off' a horse when they have produced it and have a proven record with it. I think the problem lies with our selectors and maybe the BSJA will recognise this (!) or not! Ben proved himself to be a worthy player in the competition today and I know that many doubted the fact that the horse was 'young' and relatively inexperienced at that level but fair play to him - he was an old head on young shoulders and deserves an individual medal!
When we get to the 2012 selections let's hope that we have a fair selection policy in place with fair selectors and that those with a PROVEN track record of jumping at a level required to qualify them for an Olympic place is used. I feel that this means most of our jumping should be done in Europe where there are better shows, better facilities and better tracks to 'test' our potential riders. It would also give a far better insight as to the competition we would be up against. Perhaps a policy such as is used for pony teams, juniors and young riders should be put into place and those (all ages included) who feel they would like to have a crack at the whip should attend. This could be done on a nationwide basis (not for the faint hearted) with a selection of riders who could be nurtured through to the final stages. With this in place we may find who should actually be worthy of such a prestigious place on our teams! No doubt I will get shot down for this but something needs to be done and four years is not long! We have some great young horses in this country who could through correct training be produced to this level.
I agree with some of the other comments regarding our other team members - and perhaps they should take a good look at the wonderful Ian Millar who was an absolute credit to his team - at 61 years of age!!! He obviously has a great fitness regime in place and it paid off! Not of course forgetting Maclain and Eric too.
 
As I've said on other threads - we should be sending the best, not the youngest. John is still number 1 in England so why shouldn't he go?

There are plenty of youngsters with just as much horsepower as the older ones, but they haven't the experience yet to be selected for the Olympics - but their time will come.

That said, personally I wouldn't have picked Nick for the team.
 
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