The breeding and selling of banned breeds

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16 October 2021
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An acquaintance's son (early 20s) is breeding and selling pitbulls.

The boy is everything that you would stereotypically imagine a backyard bull breeder to be based on his public posting to social media.

The reason that I've become aware of this situation is one that would identify me so I'd rather not post other than say it was via social media.

I thought that the dog pictured was a pitbull based on what I've seen Kayley Cuoco and Karl Cook post about their own dog and rescues that they support.

I did go looking based on publicly tagged pictures and it's the acquaintances son breeding and advertising the dogs via a fb page that he had set up for his "stud" along with his public profile page. These are all public posts and the dogs are openly referred to as pitbulls.

Cue lots of pictures with the dogs straining in chains while he poses and pictures of a dog scaling a tree to attack and hang from something he's hung from branches. He at least doesn't appear to crop ears but is pictured with people who have.

Feeling conflicted as to if I should be doing something or winding my neck in and minding my own business. I wouldn't like to be responsible for the destruction of the dogs when they've done no harm.

I've no first hand experience of pitbulls, for obvious reasons, but from what I've seen on US rescue sites they can be lovely dogs. I wouldn't want innocent dogs being destroyed but it also doesn't sit right that this person is running an illegal breeding operation, selling puppies and advertising his dogs (on Facebook) for stud. I am not a "blame the breed" person and 100% blame the people.

Should it be reported or live and let live? His dogs appear healthy and in good condition. Based solely on the Facebook pictures that I have seen there isn't a welfare issue. The mother has one as a pet that lives with a small dog.

My own bias is at play too because I am judging him based on the "chavvy" pictures and being acquainted with ear croppers. I also don't like the acquaintance, unrelated to anything posted, and it's possible that I would feel more comfortable turning a blind eye if it was someone I liked? That's why I'm asking for the opinion of strangers because I know that you are straight talkers!

Please do not personally attack me. I am not a rule, let alone law, breaker and now that I know (ignorance was bliss) I do not know if I should be doing something or not for.

What would you do, or not do, if you found out about a local banned breed breeder?
 

twiggy2

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The problem is most people who would knowingly buy a pit bull want a status symbol, now before I get shot down in flames (most pits I have known have been cracking lovely dogs) what sensible dog loving person would bring a puppy into their lives knowing that any day it could be taken and held in kennels for (sometimes) years before being destroyed because it gets recognised for what it is?
Also these dogs sometimes end up in rescue and are homed without being recognised then it all goes wrong and the innocent dog gets taken from a niave owner and everyone suffers except the breeder.
 
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I would speak to the local Dog Warden about this. If they can't take any action, theywill refer you on to the police. Or you could ring CrimeStoppers anonymously.I don't see how you could possibly pretend that you don't know about this'stud'. How ould you feeel if in the future, you found out that one of the dogs he had bred had been used for dog-fighting? Or that one of his dogs had attacked another pet dog? I am very much of the 'dangerous breeder, not dangerous breed' mindset but this sounds like a dangerous breeder imo.
 

twiggy2

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I think that he is training them in the way he is would make me want to report them.
Many people i have met over the years train their dogs to pull weights, hang off things hanging from trees, race, etc etc, they have been much loved family pets that owners have become fed up with walking jnnpublic due to the public reaction, of they are clubs and start with staffing but branch out jntk many and any breeds. No interest jn fighting or dogs as status symbols just owners who want their dogs to have an active fullfilled life without the bad press they attract
 

P3LH

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I think sadly you’d be surprised how often this goes on. There is someone locally who is quite brazen on social media that they are breeding pit bulls, they have had some dogo Argentino types imported and what they call ‘bloodhound crosses’ but mutual friends tell me are imported fila’s.

they are well loved, well kept and well cared for but….
 

fankino04

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I'm very much a blame the person not the breed person and many pit bulls in the US seem lovely dogs, however if he is breeding and selling them illegally, using pics of them looking viscous etc and assorting with those who crop their ears it is doubtful that these puppies will get sold to responsible homes and have a happy life, more likely sold to chavs who want them as status symbols and will end up having them siezed either before or after attacking someone or something so I would report him, call me judgemental if you want.
 

stangs

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Are they definitely pit bulls? Not sure how he’d get breeding stock into the UK, unless they’re American bullys being crossed with staffies to get more of a pitbull type. Either way, if that’s how he’s marketing them…

No responsible dog owner in the UK would buy a pitbull, for the simple reason that, if reported, their dog is at best condemned to a life of muzzles and leashes in public, and, at worst, killed.
 
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Anon to licensing authority. All they need is premise address and ideally adverts or a link to adverts.
Who are the licensing authority? I cannot find such a place to contact.

Are they definitely pit bulls? Not sure how he’d get breeding stock into the UK, unless they’re American bullys being crossed with staffies to get more of a pitbull type.
Yes, 100% pit bulls. I looked into it a bit further. He has tagged breeders that he has bought from and they tag people and so on. There are, that I found, close to 100 separate pit bull breeder in the UK advertising openly on social media and more with private accounts.

It is so open I find it hard to believe that police/dog wardens/rspca are not already aware.

What should happen if a pit bull, or other illegal breeding, visits a vet? As it is illegal I would have thought that the vet should be seizing or at least reporting them. Clearly that is not happening because some of these dogs have had cesarean sections.
 

stangs

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Either he tells the vets that it’s a different breed, or the vets know and don’t care. Given that people go into the profession because they love dogs, I find it hard to imagine that a vet would go out of their way to report the dog knowing it would have to be put to sleep.
 
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They are unquestionably pit bulls. Do you know how you can sometimes take a second look at a Staffordshire bull terrier Cross and wonder? Well there isn't a shred of doubt with these dogs.

That is what plays on my conscious. These dogs are well looked after, aren't used for fighting and there is no ear cropping etc. I'm effectively causing their premature deaths if anyone takes a report serious. Even more so when professionals with legal obligations have not taken any action.
 

CorvusCorax

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I don't think vets have the power to seize animals at all, or to report them unless there are welfare or temperament concerns.
If they do get seized, they could wind up being kennelled for months, then if there is a court case, based on the assessment, they will either live under strict control measures including muzzling and walking on short leash for the rest of their lives - or the judge could decide they should just get PTS because they shouldn't exist in the first place.
Teaching weight pull or hanging onto things doesn't mean they are bad dogs, both of these are part of my own dogs' strength/conditioning training. It just looks bad when certain breeds are doing it.
 

twiggy2

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Either he tells the vets that it’s a different breed, or the vets know and don’t care. Given that people go into the profession because they love dogs, I find it hard to imagine that a vet would go out of their way to report the dog knowing it would have to be put to sleep.
The problem is that if the vets report them then the dogs don't get taken to vets anymore, so the vets are in a very difficult situation dammed if you don't and the dog is dammed if you do.
 
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That is my moral dilemma. The owner/breeder is doing something illegal but that's not the fault of the dogs.

I fully agree regarding the training. One of my friends trained her staffies to pull weights. Another friend was a dog trainer in the police* and now runs training classes that include improving grip strength. I have an awareness from watching the classes but I have never trained a dog in this way myself.

* he said that he doubted any cal I to them to report owning the dogs would be followed up as they are so busy. It would only be taken seriously if an incident happened/was happening.

The issue in this case is that the pitbull owner is not training correctly regardless of breed. He has the dog latching on in public spaces and winds it up. This is in public videos so I do not know what happens in private. If another dog or child were to enter the picture I wouldn't trust the "training". Human fault not the dog.

Conjecting but I imagine that his dog training "knowledge" comes from watching similar thugs and wannabes online.

I think that I will let sleeping dogs lie. The dogs are well cared for, professionals haven't bothered escalating the matter and personally I couldn't live with the dogs enduring what CorvusCorax has described.
 

Gloi

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I think that I will let sleeping dogs lie. The dogs are well cared for, professionals haven't bothered escalating the matter and personally I couldn't live with the dogs enduring what CorvusCorax has described.
How will you feel the if you find the ones he sells are used for fighting or injure someone. Let the police decide if they want to do anything.
 

splashgirl45

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its a shame that a breed of dog is demonised because a certain section of the public mistreat them and make them dangerous. if you watch pitbulls and parolees on really channel 17 , most of the pits they rescue are lovely characters. they are not my type of dog, nor are staffies or other bull breeds as i like lurcher types but i can understand people liking their characters. its about time the dangerous dogs act was changed from being breed specific to what a dog has actually done....if the dogs are well looked after and are well behaved and not a danger to the public or other dogs i wouldnt get involved..
 

Smitty

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In the light of the awful Wales tradgedy, what are peoples feelings now?

I personally feel these dogs have no place in our society.

I do a lot of camping and many campsites do not allow certain breeds. I presume this is due to their insurance and the increased risk of liability these breeds pose.
 

splashgirl45

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its not the breeds, its the owners...many years ago after german shepherds got very popular there were a few incidents and that breed was demonised. people need to realise that any powerful dog can cause huge damage to people or other dogs and i feel there should be some sort of license required , the same as the type of license required to own a tiger or similar.. it will never happen but blaming the breeds is wrong IMO..a numpty owner with a peke is just a nuisance but with a mastiff or any other large breed its much more serious
 
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We don’t know the breed of the dog that killed this poor lad. But clearly it was a large (possibly bull or mastiff) type dog.

Any large breed dog has the ability to cause significant damage to a person, but that’s not reason enough to ban certain breeds. As ever education is the key.

But sadly incidents of this type will continue to happen whilst certain breeds are owned by sectors of society who see them as status symbols or who do not supervise interactions appropriately.
 
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