The 'competition horse,' Vs Tie back operation...

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ForeverBroke_

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Hi All,

Thought about putting this in veterinary but I thought I would get more of a result in here toward what I'm asking.

I have a big 17.2hh 12yo KWPN who I have owned for nearly 4 years. He had a 5* vetting of which he failed due to 'making a noise on inspiration,' - i.e making him a 'roarer.' He has never been endoscoped as for general riding club activities the vet didnt seem it a big enough issue to impact upon his workload.

Anywho, fast forward 4 years later and we are doing a lot more than I probably anticipated. He is in quite a substantial amount of work - he often has 4 lessons a week and is out competing every weekend. He is as fit as I deem that I can get him and generally speaking he copes 'ok' with his condition. He can canter quite happily around and around the school - although the noise is still there. He jumps double clears at 1m and he will happily go XC schooling (although he does get quite loud and would never cope with a full course).

More recently I have affiliated him BD and I have found that we have hit a bit of a glass ceiling re : our percentages. Following some lessons with more intensive instructors I have found that his breathing is particularly loud. I am beginning to wonder whether as he is now being asked to ride more forward/more 'up,' he is struggling. He does struggle in the heat particularly, and he will often huff and puff to himself when being led in from the field but he has never not coped and is fantastic condition.

I am therefore toying with the idea of pursuing the tieback/hobday surgery route but I am very concerned that I am doing this for 'selfish,' reasons in that I am considering putting him through a surgery to suit my own needs; if that makes sense. He is my perfect horse and he is my world and I could never sell him, or buy anything like him again.

Would you go for the op? Or accept he can't work past a certain level and 'make do?'


I am awaiting a call back from my vet to discuss my options/have a general chat as we speak.
 
I would certainly consider going for the op, as he gets older he may get worse, as you ask more he will get more uncomfortable possibly even distressed, I don't see it as purely selfish if he is able to do the job required but is being held back by a physical cause that a fairly straightforward operation may well solve.
If it was a lameness issue you would not hesitate to operate if it would "cure" him, it should make his life easier so I don't see much difference.
 
I would op him for his health benefits. It's not a major op, they recover quite quickly and they are done so frequently that most specialist vets can do them with their eyes closed and hands tied behind their backs. I think, off of the top of my head, Hobday's are in the box for 4 weeks solid eating wet food and hay from the floor before they can start gentle walking and gradually build it back up. Should take around 1.5-2months to be back cantering properly and getting them blowing. The last thing you want is to ****** up the wind op by getting them blowing too early.

Another thing to consider with a Hobday is - your horse will never neigh properly again, they can make a wheezing kind of noise but no true voice as it is the vocal chords that are being cut.

He is still young, has plenty of years of competitions left in him no real reason not to op him. Just think about whether you would rather miss the end of this outdoor season and start off on the winter indoor circuit or whether you wait until the grass season is over and do it during the winter months.
 
Thats reassuring to hear, thankyou both.

I think I'm just fretting about the general anesthetic - don't we all!

Not particularly worried about missing the rest of the outdoor season - though I suppose it might make more sense to do it when the weathers a bit pants and he'll be in more anyway re: the box rest.

He's not an overly confident chap and holds back quite a lot - he was very backward to ride initially, and I just wonder whether being given the ability to actually breathe will give him a new lease of life..
 
Any horse that I have known to have a tie-back have improved so much I think you should consider having it done really. Yes, the GA is a worry, however if all goes well he will be so much more comfortable for the years to come.
 
If he was mine he would have been done within the first few months of owning him to be honest. It must as equally distressing for a horse to get short of air as it is for us with asthma.

It is routine for many big horses, mine ID was done at 4. Vets told me to break him first.
 
Agree with other posters - it's almost a bit mean not to have him done. In my experience they recover well and feel so fantastic in themselves afterwards, it's like having a different horse. Go for it !
 
I have little experience of wind issues but as an asthma sufferer I'd say he'd probably thank you for the op! Discuss in detail with the vet and ask them for the best time - it may be that it's preferable in warmer weather.

As an aside, the fact that he's in good health and fit now should stand him in good stead for the GA. Mine had four in four weeks and he bounced back within minutes of every one....vet attributed a lot of it to his fitness at the time (didn't stop me spending every minute of each one staring at the phone willing it to ring with good news!!!)
 
It made my horse less spooky, so I would definitely go for it. He also grew thicker feet, which was bizarre, but other people reported the same. My vet's opinion was that the stress of knowing that he could not outrun a predator meant that he was producing steroids that were damaging his feet.

I would not hesitate to have it done.
 
I've heard there are some newer methods available now, such as nerve grafts? Having seen a horse with the tie back aspirating it's food I honestly would never do that to mine.. My roarer managed to cope up to 1.05 eventing simply by being extra fit. I also began training with a 'classical' dressage trainer, and as his level of relaxation and confidence improved in his work, the noise died down a lot!! It was still their when he got revved up though!!
 
It's a routine procedure , I would go for it but I would choose the surgeon with care I would only have mine done by a specialist .
I would also have him scoped while working so the you know exactly what's he's doing .
Most equine vets will have access to someone with a scope that the horse wears during work .
The surgeon then knows exactly what's the best thing to do .
 
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Lyle said:
I've heard there are some newer methods available now, such as nerve grafts? Having seen a horse with the tie back aspirating it's food I honestly would never do that to mine.. My roarer managed to cope up to 1.05 eventing simply by being extra fit. I also began training with a 'classical' dressage trainer, and as his level of relaxation and confidence improved in his work, the noise died down a lot!! It was still their when he got revved up though!!
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Horses which breathe in their food have had it done wrong. Mine ate completely normally. That's why Goldenstar says you need an expert.
 
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There is a chance that every horse could aspirate food, because the laryngeal is tied back leaving the airway 80-90% open all the time. This is not just with horses, but also other animals such as dogs! The animals have to learn a different way of swallowing to prevent this. It's just my personal opinion, that I wouldn't put my horse through that :) At least with a nerve graft, if it is unsuccessful, they are no worse than when they started.
 
J is partially tied back he functions quite normally apart from the most ridiculous whinny however he make a noise still ,it's his soft palate he was tied back while in training unfortunately it was his palate that was the issue not his larynx that's why I
Say I would not have it done without being very sure what's going on by having the horse wear a scope during work.
 
Fleabite said:
Hi All,

Thought about putting this in veterinary but I thought I would get more of a result in here toward what I'm asking.

I have a big 17.2hh 12yo KWPN who I have owned for nearly 4 years. He had a 5* vetting of which he failed due to 'making a noise on inspiration,' - i.e making him a 'roarer.' He has never been endoscoped as for general riding club activities the vet didnt seem it a big enough issue to impact upon his workload.

Anywho, fast forward 4 years later and we are doing a lot more than I probably anticipated. He is in quite a substantial amount of work - he often has 4 lessons a week and is out competing every weekend. He is as fit as I deem that I can get him and generally speaking he copes 'ok' with his condition. He can canter quite happily around and around the school - although the noise is still there. He jumps double clears at 1m and he will happily go XC schooling (although he does get quite loud and would never cope with a full course).

More recently I have affiliated him BD and I have found that we have hit a bit of a glass ceiling re : our percentages. Following some lessons with more intensive instructors I have found that his breathing is particularly loud. I am beginning to wonder whether as he is now being asked to ride more forward/more 'up,' he is struggling. He does struggle in the heat particularly, and he will often huff and puff to himself when being led in from the field but he has never not coped and is fantastic condition.

I am therefore toying with the idea of pursuing the tieback/hobday surgery route but I am very concerned that I am doing this for 'selfish,' reasons in that I am considering putting him through a surgery to suit my own needs; if that makes sense. He is my perfect horse and he is my world and I could never sell him, or buy anything like him again.

Would you go for the op? Or accept he can't work past a certain level and 'make do?'


I am awaiting a call back from my vet to discuss my options/have a general chat as we speak.
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Haven't looked at any other replies yet, but do it!! My last horse had a tie back, and whilst he'd never had huge problems before it, just loud breathing and inability to really gallop, he was a different horse after the op. He went on to do XC and eventing, gallop on the beach, and generally was a much happier and healthier horse to deal with, although I wouldn't have suspected a huge problem beforehand I saw a huge difference.

My mum, who is asthmatic, told me I was an idiot. She said whenever her breathing is a bit tight it is horrible - and why hadn't I done the horse a favour and relieved it a bit sooner?
 
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Gamebird said:
If he's not too bad (probably gr 4 or under) then he could have standing laser surgery - no GA and a very quick return to work.
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Our mare makes a noise and was scoped by the vet last year and she said at the time not to do anything, we are now out of the time window for insurance and she has got worse and is finding it hard now competing at BE novice. As we have no insurance cover now I was wondering, roughly what is the cost of this option as we are looking into what we can afford to do. We just wish we had pushed it with the vet more at the time now.
 
Jane_Lou said:
Our mare makes a noise and was scoped by the vet last year and she said at the time not to do anything, we are now out of the time window for insurance and she has got worse and is finding it hard now competing at BE novice. As we have no insurance cover now I was wondering, roughly what is the cost of this option as we are looking into what we can afford to do. We just wish we had pushed it with the vet more at the time now.
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You'd have to ring around and ask (no-one will mind). CPT' s suggestion sounds very high to me considering no GA required, but Cheshire can be a world of its own ;)
 
Gamebird said:
You'd have to ring around and ask (no-one will mind). CPT' s suggestion sounds very high to me considering no GA required, but Cheshire can be a world of its own ;)
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My quote was for a tie back, which does does require GA, sorry.

A laser hobday will not normally sort out a wind problem with laryngeal hemiplegia. My horse had both (they normally host as well) and he still made a horse, but he breathed so much better and was a happier horse for having had it done.
 
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We had one done who scored 4/5on scoping. He had a hobday and tie back - best thing we could ever have done for him

Now he's getting more oxygen to his brain, he's a whole lot perkier and able to perform at a much higher level. He has a neigh - not the one he had before the op - now he roars like a dinosaur :-)

He's meant to be on shavings, soaked hay and not have sugar beet but tbh, he's happy on straw, hay and eats any feed he likes.

I couldn't recommend the op more highly
 
Just caught up on this tread and was interested to read that it can make horses less spooky if they have the op. My girl is just 7 hadn't done a lot when I bought her rising 6. She is very, very spooky and I've been having an ex-jockey hack her out as he has better stick ability than me! She was 'thick' in the wind when I bought her but the jockey thinks it is getting worse and might be contributing to her panics. She was 16.3 when I bought her but has grown over a hand since then and is TB x Cob. Her breathing isn't laboured and she coughs sometimes when starting work which then turns into a noise. Any thoughts?
 
My friend has a 21yr old very successful FEI dressage horse who is a roarer. He has never had surgery and has competed his whole life at the top. He is a very bad roarer and sounds terrible but carries on with his work very happily.

And just to add his owners husband is an event rider and performance horse vet and has never thought this horse has needed surgery.
 
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