The dangers of walkers and dogs

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RunToEarth

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I thought I would share these two articles both relating to walkers and dogs.

The first one is just tragic, however there seems to be a rising amount of inicdents over recent years. I read somewhere that this university lecturer who sadly lost his life when trapled by cows earlier this week, had previously worked in agriculture.

It begs the question as to why no one has raised awareness of the dangers of walking through fields of cows with calves at foot, especially with dogs.

http://www.thisisbath.co.uk/Walkers...tory-18981273-detail/story.html#axzz2TY8y7Sb5

The second article just makes my blood boil for the poor livestock that got mauled, the dog that was shot because its owner couldn't control it, and the farmer who has lost his livestock. Is it that difficult to control your dog when out?

http://www.fwi.co.uk/articles/13/05...nconsolable39-after-horrific-sheep-attack.htm
 
Farming organisations try as hard as they can to publicise it, but often get criticised for trying to 'put people off exercising their rights'. Also if they try to divert the path to a safer route eg field boundary they are blocked at every turn quite often. Yet they aren't trying to stop people walking the routes, just stop them being killed. If nothing else, taking the dog through is the biggest risk factor, much more than just walking through and personally, like many unsafe practices being restricted in life, I think that dogs should be banned from livestock fields which have stock in them, there's no use having the right to do something if you end up dead but people just seem to have no sense.

If walking in the countryside please do NOT walk a dog through a cattle field even if you have the right to. If you do, keep it on a lead but if the cattle start to come, let go of the lead as the dog will likely get away but if the dog is with you, you possibly will not.

And preferably don't walk a dog through a sheep field when they are in lamb or have lambs unless you have the dog on a lead and are able to stay a good long distance from them. Even being alarmed (and not physically attacked) can cause abortion or the ewe to abandon the lambs.
 
lachlanandmarcus said:
Farming organisations try as hard as they can to publicise it, but often get criticised for trying to 'put people off exercising their rights'. Also if they try to divert the path to a safer route eg field boundary they are blocked at every turn quite often. Yet they aren't trying to stop people walking the routes, just stop them being killed. If nothing else, taking the dog through is the biggest risk factor, much more than just walking through and personally, like many unsafe practices being restricted in life, I think that dogs should be banned from livestock fields which have stock in them, there's no use having the right to do something if you end up dead but people just seem to have no sense.

If walking in the countryside please do NOT walk a dog through a cattle field even if you have the right to. If you do, keep it on a lead but if the cattle start to come, let go of the lead as the dog will likely get away but if the dog is with you, you possibly will not.

And preferably don't walk a dog through a sheep field when they are in lamb or have lambs unless you have the dog on a lead and are able to stay a good long distance from them. Even being alarmed (and not physically attacked) can cause abortion or the ewe to abandon the lambs.
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I completely agree. I feel desperately sad for the gentleman who has lost his life, but people at some point have to realise that farm animals are really not that friendly, I spent the first 18 years of my life on my parents' dairy farm and can count on one hand the amount of times I've walked through stock fields with our dogs, and then it is on the fence line.

I really wish people would read up on the dangers of stock and understand that farmers are not trying to stop people walking their footpaths but more trying to stop people aggravating stock and getting squashed. I have seen kids from the village mess about with the cows as if it is a game, it fills me with dread, they are such defensive animals when they have young at foot, and they are so inquisitive when they are heifers running in a herd, I just wish people would realise that.
 
The gentlemen who died is local to me and although I don't know him, local papers have previously reported other problems with cows in the exact fields he and his brother were injured in. He was an experienced walker, I really don't think this was anything he did, but a very unfortunate accident.

I was involved in a cow stampede last year, driving my Renault Clio home came across a queue of cars on the road. A herd of cows had escaped from their field. I didn't see what happened exactly as was around a sharp S bend with the cows on the other bit of the bend but suddenly the cows stampeded, back past the car in front of mine.

Unfortunately not all of the herd got past my car, with a lot of cows jumping and landing on it, some on the bonnet, some direct onto the windscreen, some slid along the bonnet and landed on the floor or slammed into the windscreen. It was the scariest time I've had in a while, especially as I had all windows open - it was August and hot and dry for once. The cows also looked terrified.

Car was written off, I was fine but shocked and it really bought home how unpredictable they are.

It also taught me not to park into the verge to get out of their way but to sit in the middle of the road.
 
Maybe a mandatory warning when stock is in the field? I don't want to place the legal onus on farmers for people's own stupidity but actually one of our local farmers DOES do that. It is much appreciated when I am hacking as there were certain fields I would give a miss to as take my dog with me but once he started putting up notices meant I knew it was safe to go through. Another does it near my home and again, appreciated as its not always obvious when you go into a field as to what is in there.
 
Luci07 said:
Maybe a mandatory warning when stock is in the field? I don't want to place the legal onus on farmers for people's own stupidity but actually one of our local farmers DOES do that. It is much appreciated when I am hacking as there were certain fields I would give a miss to as take my dog with me but once he started putting up notices meant I knew it was safe to go through. Another does it near my home and again, appreciated as its not always obvious when you go into a field as to what is in there.
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I don't see how signs would help walkers can see the stock is there and the farmer can't say the cattle are safe or not safe as they simply do not know , all cattle have the potential to be extremely dangerous .
I survived an attack by cows I was extremely lucky they where bullocks and attacked the horse with no warning chargeing from some distance away. They surrounded the horse who was young as I tried to leave the field in a slow non aggressive fashion , I knew as soon as they started running their behaviour was abnormal and tried to get back to the gate.
After a stand off two of the bullocks barged the horse who was terrified and reared and went over backwards leaving me on the ground I was saved by the fact I had a dressage whip and I just slashed at their eyes until I backed under the barded wire strand in front of the fence .
The farmer then arrived the bullocks chased the horse for two and a quarter hours until we managed to get him out.
very frightening , the horse was in shock and had to be dripped before being transported home he recovered and spent part of that summer turned out with a pony in a field of cows he was fine and never showed any anxiety about cows.
 
There have been a number of incidents where people (and dogs) have been killed by cattle. There was someone on here whose bulldog was killed if I recall.:(
Most doggy people I know are aware of the risk, but obviously it isn't as common knowledge as I thought.
As to dogs killing stock, I have no idea how the message will ever get through to people. I read just this morning of 2 alpaca being killed by dogs.
 
Its not always possible to see the cattle when you enter a field. I was walking my dogs on a lead when suddenly a large herd of bullocks appeared and for the first time in my life I was seriously worried. I contemplated letting the dogs off the lead before we all got trampled, but managed to reach the footbridge and ended up having to walk a 6 mile detour to avoid returning through the field.
Its was a few weeks later that a walker was killed by a bull in the same village and his wife was critically injured.
Another field in the village had a bridlepath running through it and again, the cattle weren't visible on entry. Our horses were absolute stars despite the cattle surrounding us and following us to the gate. This wasn't normal inquisitiveness, they were bolshy and intimidating. There was no way of telling when they would be in the field, so during the summer we couldn't use the route and had to ride along a pretty hazardous road to link up with the network of bridlepaths.
I can't recall having problems with livestock in any other area before or since but it's made me very reluctant to go through fields with cattle. A sign indicating when cattle are in fields would be useful.
 
Ditto signage indicating stock type on entering public rights of way would be good, there is always some that will ignore it as we have found but I would like to think the majority read it.
We have fenced pieces off on our land before for the saftey of our stock and walkers and people have actually cut through the wire to get back in! These are areas not even a public right of way but some belligerent people seem to think they can go wherever they want. A major point some fail to think of is that in not being a public right of way it may not even be safe for them and their animal, ie. agri chemicals, machinery at work, wells, barbed wire, aside from just the livestock risk. Thinking in selfish terms, letting your dog loose if you can't garuntee it will comeback could lead to big bills for you as well as the farmer!
 
But what point would the sign be a farmer can't do anything that "blocks " a ROW and how on earth would it work for liability you but up a sign saying caution cows and calves someone uses the ROW gets hurt you have admitted liability.surely it would fall foul of thesame law that acts against beware of the dog signs.
 
RunToEarth said:
I completely agree. I feel desperately sad for the gentleman who has lost his life, but people at some point have to realise that farm animals are really not that friendly, I spent the first 18 years of my life on my parents' dairy farm and can count on one hand the amount of times I've walked through stock fields with our dogs, and then it is on the fence line.

I really wish people would read up on the dangers of stock and understand that farmers are not trying to stop people walking their footpaths but more trying to stop people aggravating stock and getting squashed. I have seen kids from the village mess about with the cows as if it is a game, it fills me with dread, they are such defensive animals when they have young at foot, and they are so inquisitive when they are heifers running in a herd, I just wish people would realise that.
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This, this, this and this again. Your average cow is far less socialized than your average domestic horse . . . and I wouldn't walk my dog through a field of horses I didn't know well (and then she'd be on the lead and we'd be hugging the fence lines).

I, too, spent my formative years working with dairy and beef cows . . . not only are they not "tame" but they are a valuable asset for the former and,, therefore, shouldn't be messed with.

P
 
Goldenstar said:
But what point would the sign be a farmer can't do anything that "blocks " a ROW and how on earth would it work for liability you but up a sign saying caution cows and calves someone uses the ROW gets hurt you have admitted liability.surely it would fall foul of thesame law that acts against beware of the dog signs.
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Why not a simple sign saying 'cows/livestock in field' no need to add 'caution' to it.

Those who perhaps are afraid of cows, have dogs, young children ect who might choose to avoid that particular field can do so before they had to enter. Those who don't mind will still use the path
 
But I think the average person honestly thinks that cows are docile creatures. Perhaps the recent spate of attacks has changed this notion somewhat, but I don't think a precautionary sign is a bad thing, especially when calves are present in the field.
 
I feel ever so sorry for farmers, especially those who lose stock to dogs. It must be heart breaking to see your stock savaged or to have to shoot a dog. However, SO many times I have turned a corner in a field and been suddenly confronted by a herd of cattle or ewes with young lambs. Thankfully my collie is well trained but some warning would be very much appreciated. I sometimes go for very long walks that I've never been on before, obviously you can't tell from the map what's in the field and if you don't know the area well it can be hard to find a way round. Not to mention that some land owners jump down your throat if you stray so much as an inch off the path, even if you did it to avoid alarming their livestock! I would never blame the farmer if I was attacked by cows though, I could after all just stick to walking in the local park.
 
MurphysMinder said:
There have been a number of incidents where people (and dogs) have been killed by cattle. There was someone on here whose bulldog was killed if I recall.:(
Most doggy people I know are aware of the risk, but obviously it isn't as common knowledge as I thought.
As to dogs killing stock, I have no idea how the message will ever get through to people. I read just this morning of 2 alpaca being killed by dogs.
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I remember the incident on here a few years ago, her husband was quite badly injured as well I believe.

This is a hard one. Until I read on here about the incident that was mentioned above, I probably wouldn't have thought twice about walking along a PROW that had cows in it. Why would the PROW be through a field that was "possibly" dangerous to enter? You wouldn't have a PROW through a field inhabited by lions, or bears, if you see what I mean? Having read that, I would think twice. I hack around Epping forest, in the summer, we have free roaming British long horn cows. These are very docile, but we can walk around a corner, and they are there in front of us. This again would make me think it would be perfectly ok to walk along a right of way through a field full of cows.

The dog issue is a whole other issue. We were hacking in the forest last weekend when a little dog came towards us. It wasn't aggressive as such, but stood and barked at us, ran around us. Found his owners a good 5 minutes further along the track. They were unable to catch the dog, who by then was coming in and snapping at heels. 3 of the horses were as good as gold. 1 is nervous around dogs because of previous experiences, but luckily stood still. It took a good 5 minutes for the owners to catch the dog, and the whole time we had to stand, as every time we moved, dog would come in running. To me, that dog should not have been off the lead.
 
I don't know if it was a factor in the sad death of the man above, and injury to his elderly brother but I think there needs to be more publicity about the fact that on the whole the cows are chasing dogs not people and that if it happens to you, let go of the dog.....
 
how does joe public know about cows? most of them don't? surely a note on the gate of footpaths with stock out explaining the dangers would be sensible. You and I may know cows ahte dogs, but plenty of people don't have a clue-and that's not their fault.
And it's a bit harsh to blame the man who died when you don't know what happened, we all know about the cows that have an attitude, 'that wild heifer' who if a non savvy person was in the wrong place wrong time could do damage!
 
I had a very narrow escape in a field with bullocks. The field had the only bridleway in the area and I was walking it with OH and three dogs (on leads) to check it out before riding it. When we entered the field we did see what appeared to be cows at the very very far end of a very large field and we stayed at the completely opposite end of the field near the fence. Half way through the bullocks all run up to us and we had a really, really tough time making it back to the gate to get out. We waved sticks at them and they weren't in the least afraid. We could not let go of the dogs as the field was fenced with pigs netting and they would have been trapped.

I don't see why this was our fault. We were using a PROW, in a responsible and safe manner. The farmer was effectively obstructing the right of way by having bullocks in there. He continued to do similar things in that field and in the 4 years I lived in the area I didn't meet a single rider who had been able to use the bridleway.
 
Maybe that would work if a lot of farmers put up signs saying if chased let your dog go. I've only ever seen 1 sign about it, in the lake district which actually said, do not walk dogs on a lead.....which is a bit contrary to the usual advice !
 
Booboos said:
I had a very narrow escape in a field with bullocks. The field had the only bridleway in the area and I was walking it with OH and three dogs (on leads) to check it out before riding it. When we entered the field we did see what appeared to be cows at the very very far end of a very large field and we stayed at the completely opposite end of the field near the fence. Half way through the bullocks all run up to us and we had a really, really tough time making it back to the gate to get out. We waved sticks at them and they weren't in the least afraid. We could not let go of the dogs as the field was fenced with pigs netting and they would have been trapped.

I don't see why this was our fault. We were using a PROW, in a responsible and safe manner. The farmer was effectively obstructing the right of way by having bullocks in there. He continued to do similar things in that field and in the 4 years I lived in the area I didn't meet a single rider who had been able to use the bridleway.
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You were using the ROW, he was using his field for its normal purpose ie livestock farming!....

I ride through fields of bullocks or cows up here every time I ride out (have to or wouldnt get to hack) Not nearly as dangerous as walking a dog through. Farmers won't generally argue with someone diverting to skirt the cattle herd as they don't want to pick up a body, but they would think someone daft and reckless to take a dog through.

The horse riders choosing not to use the bridleways would in fact have probably been ok on horseback so long as they were assertive and carried a stick and prepared to shout. it's the dog that is the dangerous aspect with cattle the majority of the time and lead to most of the fatalities, with horses the most you generally get is curiosity.

I would NEVER take my dog through a cattle field, I can still exercise my right to walk through the field but while one might have the right in theory to take a dog through, it's a hollow right once you're dead. And I recognise that farmers use their fields for livestock as that's their purpose and why they're not housing estates.
 
If in doubt do not go!!...... use a tad of common sense! The farmer has as much right to "farm" his ground as you have to "garden" yours.

You are very fortunate to have access to any countryside!!!!!! imagine the alternative?
 
Spook said:
If in doubt do not go!!...... use a tad of common sense! The farmer has as much right to "farm" his ground as you have to "garden" yours.

You are very fortunate to have access to any countryside!!!!!! imagine the alternative?
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That's very harsh, the man who died and his injured brother were keen walkers, I don't know exactly what happened, maybe they had walked that route many times, maybe it was the first time but I do know they had 2 dogs with them, hence my saying there should be more publicity about letting the dogs go if you are chased.
 
As they say "You pays your money and you takes your chance" except you don't PAY..... except with possibly your life, do take care, you are so very lucky to have the countryside available at all..
 
SusieT said:
how does joe public know about cows? most of them don't? surely a note on the gate of footpaths with stock out explaining the dangers would be sensible. You and I may know cows ahte dogs, but plenty of people don't have a clue-and that's not their fault.
And it's a bit harsh to blame the man who died when you don't know what happened, we all know about the cows that have an attitude, 'that wild heifer' who if a non savvy person was in the wrong place wrong time could do damage!
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ignorance is not really an excuse IMO. If you go to a country who has a completely different culture to yours, you educate yourself on it so as not to get locked up. If you go walking in the countryside you should have educated yourself on how herd animals behave and the dangers of walking with them, they are dangerous enough when you know them and work along side them everyday, people need to respect them.

Putting signs in each field is not really workable when your stock change fields regularly, and to be fair if people understood how these animals function they would know to let go of thaor dog as soon as they saw them. The only thing you cannot put in a field with a PROW is a dairy bull, the farmer isn't breaking any law by putting stock out and not putting a sign on the gate.

I do think if people applied more common sense to things there would be fewer accidents, and that is not aimed at the story above exclusively. Two winters ago my father found someone rambling over a frozen slurry pit, he was stood above 12ft of liquid cow muck and just didn't see the danger, I may be ignorant but when I see a sign saying "danger slurry store" my immediate reaction is retreat, not to trespass along it.

Whilst people have a right to PROWs, they do have seasonal hazards which i wish people would take heed of, walking the direct line of a footpath even though their is a combine in the way isn't sensible or safe. I know some people will think Ive made these up but there are people like that and we come across them more often than you would believe.
 
We passed the farmer going into her home as we were openning the gate to the field with the bullocks. To be polite we said good morning and asked if we were on the right track for the bridleway and she said yes. She said nothing about the bullocks. IMO had we been hurt she would have been morally responsible for putting the animals in a bridleway and for not warning us about it.

It is pointless to have a right of way that cannot be used (this particular field had three collapsed gates leading to it, one of which was so heavy I couldn't move it on my own on foot - I think this farmer knew exactly what she was doing with the gates and the bullocks in the bridleway).
 
Goldenstar said:
But what point would the sign be a farmer can't do anything that "blocks " a ROW and how on earth would it work for liability you but up a sign saying caution cows and calves someone uses the ROW gets hurt you have admitted liability.surely it would fall foul of thesame law that acts against beware of the dog signs.
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This farmer was left with a £1 million bill after a walker was left brain damaged by a cow attack; http://www.fwi.co.uk/articles/21/07/2009/116693/avoid-cow-attacks-and-their-costs.htm#.UZdTDklwbIU

The advice is that putting signs up indicating that livestock are in the field is good, but warning signs about them being dangerous is potentially admitting liability.
Under the Countryside Rights Of Way Act, its illegal to put people off walking along ROW, and if a particular herd or breed is known to be aggressive, then the farmer could be liable if he doesn't take reasonable steps to protect people using the route.
Its a two way responsibility, the public and farmers have a duty to be informed and respectful of each others right to both earn a living and walk along footpaths safely.

Have to disagree with the poster who said its safer to ride a horse than walk.
My horses are very used to cattle and but some herds are very bolshy and not only won't move away when you move towards them but try to push horse and rider. With the particular incident I mentioned before, waving a whip at them didn't have any effect at all. They were completely fearless.
Lucky for the farmer, our horses were so good with a herd stuck up their backsides, that we managed to safely open the gate onto a main road, get the horses out and prevent his livestock following us onto the road.
 
Booboos said:
We passed the farmer going into her home as we were openning the gate to the field with the bullocks. To be polite we said good morning and asked if we were on the right track for the bridleway and she said yes. She said nothing about the bullocks. IMO had we been hurt she would have been morally responsible for putting the animals in a bridleway and for not warning us about it.

It is pointless to have a right of way that cannot be used (this particular field had three collapsed gates leading to it, one of which was so heavy I couldn't move it on my own on foot - I think this farmer knew exactly what she was doing with the gates and the bullocks in the bridleway).
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I agree that it is annoying when gates are not kept in good order or if the way is blocked on purpose (rocks put behind gates so that they are difficult to open etc). I live on a dairy farm and we do have one footpath that is part of a popular route but no bridleways, however if a group of walkers said hello to me it wouldn't occur to me to warm them about cows being in fields.

Edited to say- perhaps the farmer wasn't trying to cause you problems but it just didn't occur to her to mention it, on a farm you should really expect there to be livestock about. Also she perhaps didn't know that they would cause a problem, they are unpredictable animals.
 
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The common factor in most of these trampling incidents is dogs. Perhaps if there was more education for people, about walking dogs through fields of cattle and how to react if the cattle do decide to attack the dog, things might be a little safer for folk.
 
I understand that people have a right to use bridleways and paths, but does that include the right to take a dog with them?
If it's widely known cattle will attack people with dogs are the dog walkers putting themselves at risk and increasing their own liability?
 
Pale Rider said:
I understand that people have a right to use bridleways and paths, but does that include the right to take a dog with them?
If it's widely known cattle will attack people with dogs are the dog walkers putting themselves at risk and increasing their own liability?
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They do, but only because footpaths were often working routes in the past, for farm workers or even taking a coffin etc, and they may have had working dogs with them, not because there is a specific right to have them with you, it is sort of implied.

I do think that a system where dogs are not allowed through livestock fields when stock are in them and farmers can put up standard signs at those times (and remove them as they remove the stock) would save the majority of the lost lives. It would have to work a little differently here in Scotland as people could come from different access points, rather than along specific footpaths, but here they can already divert to the next field without risk so it would be incumbent on them to look for cattle unless entering via the main track entrance/exit points where the signs were displayed.

In the meantime, I do think that taking a dog through cattle fields does constitute such an increase in the risk that it would or should constitute an element of contributory negligence in the event of an accident (for all I know it already does)
 
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