the dressage scandal...

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lucretia

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having read both letters i now see it was the no longer secret meeting in Bejing that this is really about. clearly there is a lot going on behind the scenes in international dressage that we are not party to, i didnt realise there was such a concern about the judges appointed to the olympics mainly because as a rather snotty list one britsh judge said to me at a training session "you are not likely to be judging at a high level for a while yet dear" so i sort of lost interest!! However in my inexperienced eyes, i did think most of the judging was ok, they seemed to get the right result anyway.
wish i was a fly on the walls in Lausanne thats for sure. and i dont think the comittee will go without a fight whatever the rights and wrongs are.
 
Got to disagree with you there, Lucretia, though I do usually come out on the same side as you
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I don't say the judging was outrageously out - but the 'backstory' element was just too much to the fore, for me.
The adjustments may have been slight, and the result may not have been much different, but I don't like to see the name blur the scoresheet.
I know it does, from having been on the inside, but if dressage is to remain an Olympic sport, it's got to stop.
 
i am quite happy to be disagreed with as i only really watched a bit and sort of lost interest after an american horse (not the doped one!!) did what i thought was a lovely test but didnt get any sort of mark for it but the thread on here at the time seemed to be agreeing with the judges!
and i do agree about keeping things above board and clear but that seems to be the trouble with dressage in general, because its subjective there will never be complete agreement about peoples expertise in the field be they riding training or judging and 'personal differences' will always have more of an impact unlike in showjumping where you can hate a persons guts but if they leave the rails up, you cant argue.
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I totally agree, lucretia, but ... there are personal differences, and then there are systemic failings. Not marking a horse down for simply NOT HALTING is a systemic failure, not a personal thing.
When I was working, I was told in no uncertain terms that ***** could not possibly win the ***** qualifier, despite doing clearly far and away the best test on the day, because s/he did not have 'the backstory' - this was by a world famous *trainer* who accepted the facts of the situation. Now that, I believe, was borne out at the Olympics, and that is WRONG.
Personaly differences between judges I can accept, but not Eurovision-like tactical marking. If we are not above that, we should bow out gracefully. As I have said before, my 11yo daughter, who has a reasonable degree of talent, is already convinced it's not worth it - that I consider to be a terrible indictment.
 
I do agree with both the above comments. i have had a few words to say in a similar vein in this country but what happens is that those in postions of power who should have the integrity to question proceedings even if brought to their attention by soeone conidered to be not so 'experienced' or whatever they like to call it, either cannot or will not. it is the like if you are on a high list for judging then you can do no wrong.
it is for these reasons that i ahve finally decided after ten years to give up judging when my membership expires because i am sick of recognition being dependent on whether your face fits not on how good a job you do.
 
thats why i have stuck with it all this time but its just not worth it, although funnily enough some really good people think i am a good judge but not enough and i cant afford to keep plugging away at it when i cant see things changing. i might have done if dane had got in as chairman but there you go
 
boy, it hacks me off.
me, the international groom, you know, I dreamed of my daughter being the international competitor?!
At just short of 12 she takes to jumping because dressage judging 'stinks'.
And worst of all, I can't argue with her! And her father despises the whole carnival, and encourages her with 'a fence is either up or down, girl'
Enough to make you spit!
 
Thats actually a really good idea, my BD stuff came through the other day to renew, not bothering, tired of it & disillusioned, joining BSJA instead.
 
The latest in H and H was a comment from David Holmes which said that the only ones who can make them resign is the ones that put them there which is the general assembly, well the general assembly meets in about 2 - 3 weeks time, would love to be a fly on the wall in that meeting, so we will know fairly soon if the dressage committee has hung on or been made to go.
 
I don't really know much about the background to this but just reading the two letters, Princess Haya's letter seems to raise specific points which the committee never addresses. Instead they go for some fairly emotional and slightly irrelevant comments, which makes me feel they have a case to answer and they are avoiding doing so!!!
 
I would love to know the background to this!

I have been a dressage writer at very lowly levels and seen judges give extra marks when they realise the competitor was "a name" and in one case when the horse was sired by the judge's own stallion! This is after the test, under the general marks section.

I could never understand why dressage tests put the name on the top of the sheet, and that is only at Prelim level! So it sounds as though this is going on all through the levels.
 
frankly a bit of a public shaking is exactly what dressage needs IMO. Loving the highly polite letters only thinly veneering the vitriol underneath though!
 
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frankly a bit of a public shaking is exactly what dressage needs IMO. Loving the highly polite letters only thinly veneering the vitriol underneath though!

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Yep - I'd agree! Far too many 'problems' are swept under the carpet and no-one except the very inner few ever know the REAL story. I don't think 'the scandal' will HARM dressage - hopefully it will be resolved sensibly in due course and we will all have a better understanding of how things work. (maybe!)
 
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