The economy and horses!

[paddy555]

I would support some sort of tax break for people who are in single households above a certain age,

but people above a certain age are more likely to be on a higher level of income. . Surely it would be the younger ones on a lower level trying to support a single household that need a tax break?
we could of course make life a little easier by increasing the PA up to 18 or even 20k.

a lot of these higher horse costs (not just yours) seem to be based on where people live. Our hay last year was the same as the year before ie £5 and I could have had as much as I wanted. Some areas appear to be almost too expensive to keep a horse due to various factors.

 

[3OldPonies]

When my current little herd of retired reprobates passes on I won't own horses anymore, I think I am priced out

Unless there is a drastic change this could be me too. Am not exactly flush in the finance department, hay is a big worry and with two oldies potential vet bills are an even bigger one. Probably there are lots of 'ordinary' owners in the same position. I will hang on for as long as possible though, I owe my two big time if it weren't for them I might not even be here to type this, they've kept me going through some really bad times and dark places in the last few years. I just so wish that things were different, the world seems to be going mad and our stupid politicians have no idea what life is like for normal people they're so up their own backsides. Squabbling like kids in a playground game when people's livelihoods, houses, hobbies etc are being taken from them left right and centre.

 

[dorsetladette]

I think the PA needs looking at, but also the 40% tax threshold reviewed. Both thresholds are outdated now IMHO

 

[New Forests Rock]

I am honestly glad that Mr NFR decided to replace his pony with a - cheap to run, no hay needed and if he doesn't ride it for a few days it won't start spooking at . Coblet is now happily unshod and almost retired. which just leaves Chief, who is very cheap to keep.

 

[teapot]

but people above a certain age are more likely to be on a higher level of income. . Surely it would be the younger ones on a lower level trying to support a single household that need a tax break?
we could of course make life a little easier by increasing the PA up to 18 or even 20k.

a lot of these higher horse costs (not just yours) seem to be based on where people live. Our hay last year was the same as the year before ie £5 and I could have had as much as I wanted. Some areas appear to be almost too expensive to keep a horse due to various factors.

In theory maybe, but the reality is different people go into careers at different ages, or train a lot longer before starting on lower than fair pay, or salaries don't reflect what they should actually be, and then you have to take location into consideration too.

The 'singles tax' goes so much further than income too - no split rates, no split insurance, no split rent or mortgage, no split car costs, food packets constantly designed for two, emergency costs are yours to solve only etc etc. That's even without going into side of things deemed luxuries.

 

[I'm Dun]

Sadly this sort of weather is here to stay and people are going to find horse costs go up and up along with the cost of living while wages stagnate and all while land is sold off and livery is harder to find. The only change in the weather in furture is going to be hotter and drier with more extreme weather events. The bottom end of the market are going to be priced out and I dont know whats going to happen to all the horses, the average ones, the ones not totally sound but happy hacking, the ones hard and/or costly to maintain etc etc.

 

[MuddyMonster]

I have a biweekly lesson which keeps me motivated, funnily enough my instructor mentioned online dressage to me in the last one, I was thinking about it but wondered if it would just feel a bit like video'ing a schooling session - sounds like you make a fab day of it!

Even if you don't make quite the day of it, I definitely think it feels different to 'just' a schooling session. I've also very much had times where I've had to get it all done within 45 minutes so pulled out a questionably clean horse and had a rushed warm up, so perhaps much more comparable to actually going out and competing

And the judges feedback I"ve found to be much more indepth than going out.

Wow, well the top 10% UK salaries are c£70,000, so if you can’t find a way to finance your animal, hard to see how Ms Average who posts on here, could.

I think it depends hugely on your set up, circumstances, your expectations and where you are in the county.

I'm not one of the top earners but I WFH so have zero to very little commuting costs day in day out, it also means I save time by not commuting so was able to move from part livery back to DIY livery (with a freelancer for some assistance, admittedly).

I can completely understand the dilemma of being on DIY would restrict career options so it might be a false economy to some (I've been there myself). I'm not that career driven, I moved up to earn what I needed to only & I hope I've reached my career glass ceiling so can afford to impose stricter work/life boundaries than someone needing to move up the ladder and can prioritise working for a company with say, a good flexible working charter and other benefits over just what the annual salary is. But that mind set might change if I found myself suddenly single and fully responsible for a mortgage and all bills without an OH!

I have single friends that are still doing horse's without mega earnings behind them but there definitely apppars to be significant sacrifices in other areas - either moving to cheaper areas, living at home, house sharing instead of owning, having a second income stream or whatever it may be. Don't get me wrong, I make sacrifices too but it doesn't feel like so much of a compromise (to be fair, perhaps it doesn't to my friends) - at the moment at least. Who knows what the future holds?

 

[Melody Grey]

In theory maybe, but the reality is different people go into careers at different ages, or train a lot longer before starting on lower than fair pay, or salaries don't reflect what they should actually be, and then you have to take location into consideration too.

The 'singles tax' goes so much further than income too - no split rates, no split insurance, no split rent or mortgage, no split car costs, food packets constantly designed for two, emergency costs are yours to solve only etc etc. That's even without going into side of things deemed luxuries.

Yup, I’m here too through no fault of my own….and it sucks!

 

[spotty_pony2]

Tell me about it. And my boy is now almost completely retired except for in hand walks out and perhaps the very occasional little ride. I am lucky he is at home, but with vet bills, how equioxx, remedial shoes, feed, etc etc he is quite an expensive horse to keep now and also high maintenance with his laminitis management (not that I’d change it. I ride and look after my friend’s two horses so I get to ride as much as I like really with them but with the costs I don’t think I’ll be going on competing much with them as by the time I have hired a lorry, paid co fuel and entry fees it’s an expensive day out so I am mostly just enjoying them at home tbh. I don’t actually know if I will get another horse straight away after my boy - I probably will eventually but maybe not straight away with things as expensive as they are.

 

[rextherobber]

Around me, the purely haylage supplier has cut 4 fields. definitely haylage and not silage, he only sells tested haylage.

Our grass is growing like there's no tomorrow thankfully. I've cut down from 3 to 2 ponies purely due to time not cost, but it does make me feel better overall.

Maybe they're going with " cut what we have" , my hay supplier said last year that he's been cutting stuff do short, he usually wouldn't bother with it

 

[Goldenstar]

This is really a problem that’s affecting all leisure activities.
The tax burden is too high it’s constraining activity and the ridiculous policy of not increasing the PA in line with inflation while increasing benefits is trapping people on benefits.
We have so many problems I could go on all day.
I fear it’s only get worse .

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

but people above a certain age are more likely to be on a higher level of income. . Surely it would be the younger ones on a lower level trying to support a single household that need a tax break?
we could of course make life a little easier by increasing the PA up to 18 or even 20k.

a lot of these higher horse costs (not just yours) seem to be based on where people live. Our hay last year was the same as the year before ie £5 and I could have had as much as I wanted. Some areas appear to be almost too expensive to keep a horse due to various factors.

Well yes absolutely, I was thinking sort of 25 when I wrote it, the point at which people will be looking to move away from their parents', but as Dorset says above, the tax burden desperately needs reviewing imo

Wow, well the top 10% UK salaries are c£70,000, so if you can’t find a way to finance your animal, hard to see how Ms Average who posts on here, could.

I am currently financing my animal, but other people may either live in a cheaper part of the UK, have someone to share house costs with, live in a cheaper property, have a friend that they share a yard with, not have such a long commute and thus can be on DIY and so on and so forth - plus what SBTS said above about the differences in 1 person earning a large salary vs 2 people earning a lower salary added together. There are areas of my life I could make compromises in, and will have to before I look at options with Dex, but it is something that will happen at some point in the next 10-15 years if costs continue to inflate as they are.

 

[teacups]

It's still quite a low tax country compared with many other western countries. Difference seems to be that the cost of living in the UK is very high (housing in particular) even though food costs are lower, and there is a large gap between rich and poor, with the poor and lower incomes not having much purchase power. £70K isn't that high these days, when you consider a teaching salary starts at nearly £30K (if I'm right - that's just grabbed from memory).

You can complain about the cost of NI as an employer, but the state has been subsidising lower wages for those same employers via the working tax credit system for many, many years.
I would say that whichever government was in place, they would have had to deal with plugging the huge deficit.

At least this government have tried to spread the burden a bit. They don't seem good at giving themselves positive publicity though, e.g. lots of people complained for years about the fuel allowance for pensioners as it wasn't means tested (to many it was no more than a bit of extra pocket money) …but once it was cut, everyone complained even more about that and it became a publicity disaster. Ditto Inheritance tax on farms - many years of farmers complaining that their children could not afford to buy a farm because the wealthy were buying farms to avoid paying inheritance tax...but the minute it was introduced, all hell broke loose.

Back to the horse owning subject:
I wonder if there will be more of a return to a culture where fewer people fund many, many years of having a non-riding horse in a field. There are a few retirement livery yards in my general area, and they are not short of clients. A few decades ago or so, only people with land would keep a horse which could no longer be ridden: retirement livery yards were quite unusual. Now, many regular DIY livery yards seem to have turned into retirement livery only.

County shows have become quite expensive to attend, too! There is one in my area which is not especially large, and charges just under £20 per adult. So no longer just a nice cheap day out to support the local show and competitors.

 

[canteron]

It's still quite a low tax country compared with many other western countries. Difference seems to be that the cost of living in the UK is very high (housing in particular) even though food costs are lower, and there is a large gap between rich and poor, with the poor and lower incomes not having much purchase power. £70K isn't that high these days, when you consider a teaching salary starts at nearly £30K (if I'm right - that's just grabbed from memory).

You can complain about the cost of NI as an employer, but the state has been subsidising lower wages for those same employers via the working tax credit system for many, many years.
I would say that whichever government was in place, they would have had to deal with plugging the huge deficit.

At least this government have tried to spread the burden a bit. They don't seem good at giving themselves positive publicity though, e.g. lots of people complained for years about the fuel allowance for pensioners as it wasn't means tested (to many it was no more than a bit of extra pocket money) …but once it was cut, everyone complained even more about that and it became a publicity disaster. Ditto Inheritance tax on farms - many years of farmers complaining that their children could not afford to buy a farm because the wealthy were buying farms to avoid paying inheritance tax...but the minute it was introduced, all hell broke loose.

Back to the horse owning subject:
I wonder if there will be more of a return to a culture where fewer people fund many, many years of having a non-riding horse in a field. There are a few retirement livery yards in my general area, and they are not short of clients. A few decades ago or so, only people with land would keep a horse which could no longer be ridden: retirement livery yards were quite unusual. Now, many regular DIY livery yards seem to have turned into retirement livery only.

County shows have become quite expensive to attend, too! There is one in my area which is not especially large, and charges just under £20 per adult. So no longer just a nice cheap day out to support the local show and competitors.

While there may be an argument for some of the reform, it was done in a brutal high handed hating way. If the reforms had been done more gently, they may have got more support - but it all just came out as vindictive?

 

[I'm Dun]

While there may be an argument for some of the reform, it was done in a brutal high handed hating way. If the reforms had been done more gently, they may have got more support - but it all just came out as vindictive?

Why do you think that? Have a really long hard think about where that idea originated from.

 

[paddy555]

Well yes absolutely, I was thinking sort of 25 when I wrote it, the point at which people will be looking to move away from their parents', but as Dorset says above, the tax burden desperately needs reviewing imo


I am currently financing my animal, but other people may either live in a cheaper part of the UK, have someone to share house costs with, live in a cheaper property, have a friend that they share a yard with, not have such a long commute and thus can be on DIY and so on and so forth - plus what SBTS said above about the differences in 1 person earning a large salary vs 2 people earning a lower salary added together. There are areas of my life I could make compromises in, and will have to before I look at options with Dex, but it is something that will happen at some point in the next 10-15 years if costs continue to inflate as they are.

ref para one I am curious how it would work or what you would be looking for and how it would be policed would almost be impossible. It seems to be slanting the tax system towards preferential treatment for single home occupiers. Interesting idea, hadn't heard it before.

to my mind, even though it was so unpopular the poll tax would have solved the problem of a single person paying council tax ie they would be paying half of a couple.

 

[Landcruiser]

I have mine at home on a relative shoestring but due to husband's redundancy, my imminent retirement, finding it all a bit much (last winter broke me), we've put our place on the market and are downsizing. I am dreading finding livery for my two, especially as one is Special Needs (EMS). I think I have my head in the sand about what it's likely to cost, and the fact that this will likely outstrip my monthly income before I do anything else. These will definitely be my last horses, but as one of them is barely 7, I'm looking at a big old livery bill if I add up what it will potentially cost.
Meanwhile, I buy in hay all year round as mine are on a track, and after my regular supplier ran out last Autumn, paid double my regular price for (pretty rubbish) hay to get through the winter. I'm getting low now, and already worrying about another massive hay bill. The change in climate is going to be the biggest factor at the bottom of our problems I think.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

ref para one I am curious how it would work or what you would be looking for and how it would be policed would almost be impossible. It seems to be slanting the tax system towards preferential treatment for single home occupiers. Interesting idea, hadn't heard it before.

to my mind, even though it was so unpopular the poll tax would have solved the problem of a single person paying council tax ie they would be paying half of a couple.

Honestly it was more of an offhand comment than something thought about in actuality, I said in my original post that it's not realistic. It just seems odd to me considering how much benefit there is for couples to cohabit in terms of sharing cost/subscriptions and things, that people in single homes aren't considered other than with a meagre 25% discount on council tax (why it's not a 50% discount is beyond me).

 

[Kirstd33]

We're down to 1 only now, having lost coblet last month but despite keeping them very frugally, I still worry about the financial implications of my daughter and I's hobby.

Livery (at friends house) - £112/month
Feed/supplements - £40/month
Trimmer - £30/month
Insurance - £50/month
1 Pleasure ride/month + trailer hire and fuel - approx £80/month
Miscellaneous eg tack, headcollars, flymasks, rugs, sprays, grooming stuff etc - £30/month

So we're well over £350/month on a meagre Teaching assistant/school tech salary. I'm fortunate hubs earns decent money and never questions it but I do worry as the costs continue to spiral upwards on an almost weekly basis.

 

[TRECtastic]

I am part of the organising committee for my sports national championships in August
We've got a stunning venue , super routes planned but looking at the costings atm we will barely break even with the amount of entries we are expecting
I'm hoping that people that have qualified do travel to our lovely venue , but it's not going to be on the doorstep of many competitors

 

[Ruftys mum]

We're down to 1 only now, having lost coblet last month but despite keeping them very frugally, I still worry about the financial implications of my daughter and I's hobby.

Livery (at friends house) - £112/month
Feed/supplements - £40/month
Trimmer - £30/month
Insurance - £50/month
1 Pleasure ride/month + trailer hire and fuel - approx £80/month
Miscellaneous eg tack, headcollars, flymasks, rugs, sprays, grooming stuff etc - £30/month

So we're well over £350/month on a meagre Teaching assistant/school tech salary. I'm fortunate hubs earns decent money and never questions it but I do worry as the costs continue to spiral upwards on an almost weekly basis.

I worked out my oldie with Cushing's and arthritis was costing me £5000 a year. I am a pensioner so this was a big hit on my income. He was put to sleep last year as his health deteriorated. I was devastated but now I can afford the occasional luxury .

 

[SEL]

Honestly it was more of an offhand comment than something thought about in actuality, I said in my original post that it's not realistic. It just seems odd to me considering how much benefit there is for couples to cohabit in terms of sharing cost/subscriptions and things, that people in single homes aren't considered other than with a meagre 25% discount on council tax (why it's not a 50% discount is beyond me).

Once upon a time, back when you were probably too young to remember, Maggie tried to replace council tax per house with a charge per person. All h3ll broke loose and there were riots. It was reversed.

For me it made sense having a charge per person for council services but it did favour the wealthy (for instance 2 occupants of a large house found themselves with a significantly lower bill) so was unpopular. It does mean single occupants of a property are now paying a disproportionate amount towards council services IMO.

Tbh I think we'd all feel better about huge council tax bills if we could see what we were getting for it!!

 

[canteron]

Why do you think that? Have a really long hard think about where that idea originated from.

The school fees, which have cost the government money, they could have given 2 years notice, lots of children were abruptly pulled out of schools in the middle of exams.

A years notice for the winter fuel allowance changes would have been kind, lots of elderly people, like my very elderly mother on mother on a limited budget had counted on that tank of oil to keep her warm during the winter. Why did it have to be so abrupt.

Small farmers who live on a shoestring, earn very little but have brought up their children learning farming skills (and possibly not a lot else) dumped on, that is a lifetime of planning destroyed in a second. Oh and quite a few suicides to get within the timeframe.

And god help anyone in the hospitality industry with the perfect storm. The amount of pub closure/shattered dream is a travesty. Why could they not have staggered the shitstorm they have dropped on them?

I appreciate your values probably meant that you dont give a stuff about people not like you if it polishes your personal halo, but I think evolution to give people time to adapt rather than revolution - but they wanted to give the middle classes a beating to make ‘their people’ (you?) happy.

Oh and there’s Angela Raynor (did you know Me&Em dress her!) and her 2 houses winging !

 

[Little bit old-fashioned]

Around me, the purely haylage supplier has cut 4 fields. definitely haylage and not silage, he only sells tested haylage.

Our grass is growing like there's no tomorrow thankfully. I've cut down from 3 to 2 ponies purely due to time not cost, but it does make me feel better overall.

Can I ask what part of the country you are in? We are South West and while we haven't had tons of rain and the fields are very dry we have had just about enough - had good rain yesterday afternoon which helped - to keep things growing well enough that panic hasn't fully set it yet. Just peeping in at the edges.

 

[Little bit old-fashioned]

I’m even considering selling my 3.5 ton lorry cheap. As I’m not using it enough.

This is a debate raging my end at the moment. Was going to replace the towing vehicle with a new towing vehicle (this one won't pass MOT come August and not worth repairing) and I'm heavily trying to work out what will be more economical, buy a 3.5ton that needs taking and insurance or pay for fuel of a big heavy vehicle now fuel is up and doesn't look like it will drop in the foreseeable - meaning both options are now a challenge rather than a doable.

 

[paddy555]

Once upon a time, back when you were probably too young to remember, Maggie tried to replace council tax per house with a charge per person. All h3ll broke loose and there were riots. It was reversed.

For me it made sense having a charge per person for council services but it did favour the wealthy (for instance 2 occupants of a large house found themselves with a significantly lower bill) so was unpopular. It does mean single occupants of a property are now paying a disproportionate amount towards council services IMO.

Tbh I think we'd all feel better about huge council tax bills if we could see what we were getting for it!!

yes it was the poll tax and it made perfect sense to me. Why should a single person pay the same as a family of say 4 adults (2 parents to working offspring) The family of 4 will most likely be using a lot more of the council services than the single person.

 

[teapot]

Current single person discount on council tax is 25% isn’t it?

 

[SEL]

Current single person discount on council tax is 25% isn’t it?

It is.

 

[Bernster]

This makes me sad. I'm in a fortunate position but the increasing food and fuel costs is really noticeable. I've recently upsized on horses to 3 on livery, which is insane, although I've dropped them all to part livery from full/exercise. It's short term as one is off on loan to a friend who's better suited to him, and sadly the other one has advanced melanoma so it's just a matter of calling that day. Not how I'd want to downsize but life works in an odd way sometimes.

I worry about the impact on venues and events (as well as on people personally, ofc) - those don't come back quickly, or at all, once they've gone, but the market will do what the market does.

 

[SEL]

This makes me sad. I'm in a fortunate position but the increasing food and fuel costs is really noticeable. I've recently upsized on horses to 3 on livery, which is insane, although I've dropped them all to part livery from full/exercise. It's short term as one is off on loan to a friend who's better suited to him, and sadly the other one has advanced melanoma so it's just a matter of calling that day. Not how I'd want to downsize but life works in an odd way sometimes.

I worry about the impact on venues and events (as well as on people personally, ofc) - those don't come back quickly, or at all, once they've gone, but the market will do what the market does.

Long time no see!!