The effect of 'poor conformation'?

[shadowboy]

Semi - hypothetical question.

You see an intermediate BE horse. Excellent record. Placed nearly every time out. Mega straightforward in all ways. Up for sale for £15k. 9 years old. Gelding. The horse is vetted. Passes all examinations- eyes/wind/soundness etc. X Ray's to legs clear but vet doesn't think conformation would stand up to advanced, in fact states horse's confo only suitable for 'low level eventing' what would you now expect to sell horse for? (This is not my horse just came across similar situation as was surprised at what the outcome of the sale was)

 

[stencilface]

If its ultra reliable and anybody's ride, it will go for that price and more perhaps, if it could take someone round Novice then its worth it.

 

[be positive]

Unless the vet was an experienced event rider or extremely well regarded within the eventing world, I would be furious if I was selling for him to come along and make such a sweeping statement when the facts, the record, vetting pass and xrays suggest otherwise, many top level horses do not have perfect conformation and an experienced vet will know this so judge the horse in front of him by clinical findings.

As a buyer I would also be very unhappy as the vetting was extensive, so the costs will have been relatively high when he could have declared it unfit for purpose at the first stage of the examination and not gone through the rest only to decide it was not fit for the job it was being bought for, no wonder people lose confidence in vettings, this could be added to the many ridiculous comments made by vets when I have bought and sold horses, I would be interested to know the outcome.

 

[ihatework]

A 9yo, with a good record at intermediate and sound is a very rare find at 15k and I would expect priced according to conformation.
As a buyer Id say it's a calculated risk.
As an owner I would have some choice words for the vet.

As a side note I watched some of the dressage at Kentucky and there was one horse that was so croup high and straight behind I was OMG!! I'm not saying confo isn't important, but there are pros and cons to any horse and it generally boils down to what you expect for your money

 

[Luci07]

the comment is not really relevant. At that price, with that record and from the description, the horse is more than fairly priced. If it made it to advanced then that would be a bonus.

What was the outcome?

 

[ljohnsonsj]

The same amount. Don't understand how the vet can pass such comment when already stated the horse is more than fit for purpose, how bizarre. Would love to know what is so 'wrong' with the horses confo to make such a sweeping statement.

 

[shadowboy]

He has done 2 intermediates this season being placed 6th and 9th. His owner is devastated. They knew he was not 'ideal' behind but had taken this into account in pricing him. I believe he is easy enough for a grassroots rider to take round a novice. They have offered him to the purchaser at £7k but she turned it down stating she'd only go for it at £3k. Owner is an owner only. Bred the horse to event.

 

[shadowboy]

My understanding is he has a twisted near hind, (best way my farrier- we have same farrier explained it) so the hoof has to be carefully balanced. He has always been sound but does need specialist, frequent trimming/shoeing. Ive never seen his legs/hoof up close.

 

[Luci07]

He has done 2 intermediates this season being placed 6th and 9th. His owner is devastated. They knew he was not 'ideal' behind but had taken this into account in pricing him. I believe he is easy enough for a grassroots rider to take round a novice. They have offered him to the purchaser at £7k but she turned it down stating she'd only go for it at £3k. Owner is an owner only. Bred the horse to event.

Seriously? Tell your friend to readvertise. I paid more than 7k for a horse that had only run in a couple of 100's. Unless the horse had huge stifle issues and had a limited competition career (as in, only fit for hacking in a very short period of time) then tell her to shrug it off and advertise again. He passed the vetting for intermediate eventing but "probably" wouldn't stand upto Advanced? You really dont know till a horse has made that step if it can move up.

 

[ihatework]

How long has he been for sale?
I'd definitely readvertise.
A buyer that can't spot a 'serious' confo fault and then has the cheek to offer 3K probably isn't the type of person you'd want to sell a horse to anyway

 

[be positive]

How long has he been for sale?
I'd definitely readvertise.
A buyer that can't spot a 'serious' confo fault and then has the cheek to offer 3K probably isn't the type of person you'd want to sell a horse to anyway

I also wonder whether they did know about the issue and had a word with the vet beforehand, if he is sound and competing at that level with nothing showing up on a vetting then he is a good buy for someone wanting a relatively inexpensive horse, at £15k he is still inexpensive, to have fun on, the under 18's are usually willing to pay for a good novice with a few Int runs.

 

[shadowboy]

As far as I know he's been readvertised for £7k but couldn't believe someone would have the audacity to offer £3k for a successful £15k horse. Oh well. I don't know her motivations for the sale. She works at the same place of work as me but we are not 'friends' as such.

 

[peaceandquiet1]

I had a horse with a career ending high suspensory desmitis and spavin and the vet said it was because of his twisted hind leg-the fetlock turned in.

 

[ycbm]

I'm sorry but I'm going to go against the grain here. If the horse's hind fetlock is actually twisted, he would not even have got as far as a vetting if I had gone to view him. He's a time bomb waiting to explode. It may not, but if it does, you're sunk with a very expensive (and uninsurable) light hack at best.

 

[EQUIDAE]

An uncomplicated horse competing at that level (well) would sell for more than the advertised price and much more if it went up the grades further. I think the buyer is chancing it. With perfect conformation the seller could ask more for the horse - could they readvertise stating that the price reflects the conformational issue which would then stop the chancers?

I know someone who was in a similar situation though it was a known issue. Horse had been eventing (**) and advertised for £30k. On a routine vet visit requiring sedation (not even a vetting) it was discovered the horse had a heart murmur - the horse had previously passed a 5 stage and this had been missed. Investigations by a specialist showed that the horse probably wouldn't stand up to competition long term, even though he was coping at the time. She readvertised him aimed at a pure dressage market (after competing on the regional teams with him) for £10k. There were people who said "Heart murmur - I'll give you £2k, to which she replied that if he didn't have the murmur he would be selling for 3x the price. She sold him for the asking price and had two interested parties - he went to the one who was able to arrange a vetting first.

Tell you friend to have a look at the price of horses competing at a similar level and stick to her guns!

 

[Orangehorse]

The trouble is that a vetting is a snapshot. No one can foretell the future. In the days when you could walk round the stables at Badminton, it was eye opening to see the conformation of many of the horses competiting there, although I know it was a long time ago now.

I think someone would be willing to take the risk and buy the horse at a reasonable price, after all there is no guarantee with the most perfect coformation that it won't go wrong.