The Hickstead Derby - What's Changed

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Rambo

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I was thinking the other day about this, and back in the days when I was young...the glamour days of British Showjumping...every household name on every top horse contested the Hickstead Derby. Eddie Macken and Boomerang, Paul Schockemohle and Deister, Nick Skelton and Apollo. The Whitakers...John and Michael. Harvey Smith and David Broome. They all used to chase this class. Nowadays though, with the odd exception, you rarely see the top horses jumping the class and often as not, unless you're involved with the sport, you will probably never have heard of half the riders
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When was the last time Michael Whitaker or Nick Skelton rode in the Derby ?

It seems a shame and I don't really understand why
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Is it the prize money (or relative lack of it !) that means people won't risk their horses or is it something else ?

Don't get me wrong, I think it's great that our youngsters and lesser known riders get a shot in the limelight, but would love to see the biggest stars there too...
 
i dont think £40,000 is that bad for prize money - same as Burghley, little less than Badminton, much more than any dressage comp.

There were a fair few of our top riders too - whole nations cup team for starters - John Whitaker, Robert Smith, Tim Stockdale, Geoff Billington, Peter Charles, William Funnell, Ben Maher etc etc. They're all pretty big stars.
 
Think you'll find that now that alot of our best riders only have one good horse they dont want to risk them. I think this is perfectly understandable, and its not exactly the best course to put a baby round as they arent small fences (all verticals are normally 1.60)
 
I think it is where the type of horse has changed to suit todays more modern lightweight courses they might not 'enjoy' the very traditional type course that is The Hickstead Derby. The Derby course is the same every single year and this was first run a very long time ago 40+ years. So was designed that long ago. If you took SJers from back then they probably wouldn't be careful enough to jump round a modern world class track. And now our more modern jumpers can't do it. Some peole might blame it on the European Warmblood influence - but the Derby is based on the Hamburg derby - which is in Europe.
 
I think David Broom summed it up on the tannoy.

It is a course to be 'hunted' round, and those with Irish in them seem to fare better than the lighter Warmbloods who are not as trained on the surface or the fence type.

There are of course exceptions to the rule, but 40 years ago, there wasn't the amount of WB's on the circuit, and grass was the only surface to jump on - so the horses that suited it were the hunter types with a good amount of Irish in them.

These days, perhaps, you find most show jumpers concentrate on competitions which more and more are jumped on a surface with very light poles and shallow cups, needing hte more accurate / careful horse.

The Derby isn't as technical perhaps (?) and needs the bolder horse to attack fences rather than be too careful.

IMO this is potentially what happened in the case of Ben Maher as the ground definatley got to the horse who is ultra careful and just got wound up when it started making mistakes.

That is my opinion -

Bx
 
I agree that £40000 sounds like a lot of money...but in reality it isn't....in world class SJ'ing terms anyway ! The Hamburg Derby which although being the basis for Hickstead has long since been surpassed in prestige terms, pays €105000 which is about £75000.

The backbone of the British Nations Cup team is Michael Whitaker, John Whitaker and Nick Skelton. Only one of those was a starter in the class and he did so on his 3rd string horse and a catch ride. The only 'top horse' that started the class was Mondriaan and as he doesn't jump indoors he kind of has to do the Derby
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All of John, Michael and Nick have at least 2 Superleague horses and in Michael's case he has about 6 horses or more that are easily capable of jumping a 1.60m track. Even David McPherson was only in it on a catch ride
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I think DD may well have a point about the type of horses...but I suspect money plays a big part too....oh yes, and the European Champs coming up too.

Where have all the overseas riders gone too ? A couple of Irish (one who lives at Hickstead anyway), a German and a New Zealander...

BTW. The Derby Meeting is classified as CSI4* which means it doesn't rank amongst the top prize money paying shows. I believe Lummen in Belgium which ran the same time was a CSI5* !
 
I think the timing has a lot to do with it as well, since they have moved the meeting forward. Robert Smith and Robert Whitaker had both competed in Monaco the night before and flown in overnight to compete at Hickstead.

It takes a very special kind of horse to jump round the Derby, Shane Breens horse World Cruise is a top Nations Cup horse and even Stephen Hadley was suprised he was in the class. I think with the emphasis now on ultra careful horses that have to compete over very light poles is not the horse of yesteryear, when the fences were all heavy poles in deep cups.
 
I was lucky enough to watch the Hamburg derby last year so have seen the comparisions.

The Hamburg derby course seems longer and the fences do not seem as intimidating as Hickstead with the bank being a bit smaller and the course a bit more rideable. Like Hickstead the class is most probably made up of 90% national riders (although many are well known due to the depth of their teams). There were a couple of big name horses but I would say about the same as compete at Hickstead. The crowd size was about 3 times larger than Hickstead and because it is in a more enclosed arena generated a fantastic atmosphere.

Hickstead Derby is a great spectacle but in this day and age where you can win good money abroad in GP's, I can understand why many horses are not 'risked' jumping the Derby where because of the more solid fences, there is more possibilities of injury.

A few years ago there were complaints about the facilities at Hickstead by foriegn riders at a very wet show and although they have improved, I wonder if the stigma has stuck and this is why they have not returned like they used to. Hopefully with the improvements they will. Also there is not great prize money in the back up classes.

The Derby is a great event to watch and I wonder if after this event where they lowered some of the fences without affecting the result too much they may keep them the same next year to try and attract more horses and to see what kind of result they get if the ground is better.
 
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I agree that £40000 sounds like a lot of money...but in reality it isn't....in world class SJ'ing terms anyway ! The Hamburg Derby which although being the basis for Hickstead has long since been surpassed in prestige terms, pays €105000 which is about £75000.

The backbone of the British Nations Cup team is Michael Whitaker, John Whitaker and Nick Skelton. Only one of those was a starter in the class and he did so on his 3rd string horse and a catch ride. The only 'top horse' that started the class was Mondriaan and as he doesn't jump indoors he kind of has to do the Derby
tongue.gif


All of John, Michael and Nick have at least 2 Superleague horses and in Michael's case he has about 6 horses or more that are easily capable of jumping a 1.60m track. Even David McPherson was only in it on a catch ride
crazy.gif


I think DD may well have a point about the type of horses...but I suspect money plays a big part too....oh yes, and the European Champs coming up too.

Where have all the overseas riders gone too ? A couple of Irish (one who lives at Hickstead anyway), a German and a New Zealander...

BTW. The Derby Meeting is classified as CSI4* which means it doesn't rank amongst the top prize money paying shows. I believe Lummen in Belgium which ran the same time was a CSI5* !

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didn't realise mondriann didn't jmp indoors do you know why?
 
I think it's just because he's a big strong horse who prefers a bit more space. It was mentioned in H&H a few weeks ago I think
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Obviously he HAS jumped indoors at times as he won the Foxhunter Final a few years ago
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ahh right!
He is massive! wonder if he wil be on the team?

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My guess would be not...he hasn't shown any real form this year...
 
30/40 years ago (that long my goodness) there was no such thing as a 'Derby horse'. Stroller was a 14.2 pony who also won an Olympic silver when the fences were truely unforgiving. Harvey won it on the horse nearest the gate that morning, Ted Edgar went round with his left arm in a sling and the foreign riders came here in force. Now it all seems so tame, there is no frisson any more and I don't know why probably because there are so many WBs now and there are no real characters such as Tutein or going further back Vibart or Mister Softee that even non-horsey viewers could warm to.
I then watched the coverage of the Samsung Super League and wasn't it tedious? Did someone forget to bring the rest of the poles and the fillers? Why didn't the course designer go back 70 years and put lathes on the top of the poles to make them even flimsier?
Ironically, 70 years ago British Team riders going abroad to jump in the army team competitions were astounded to see enormous fences with fillers and flower butts whilst we at home were used to flimsy gappy fences with lathes, few poles and no fillers. What comes around goes around.
Not that old just a SJ historian.
 
That is absolutely true with regards to horses as well as people with character. Our horse that was 2nd in the Derby is just that. A real character & jumps in the most awful style. None of the selectors like him, because he isnt a fancy WB with a fabulous technique. Look back at horses like Vibart. Uncle Max. Beethoven. The list is endless & as you say was loved by non horsey people. Sometimes I feel that SJ is getting to sterile. Crowds may just come back a bit quicker if we had some odd balls back in the game.
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Unfortunately SJ is becoming sterile and often way above the heads of the everday sports viewer. My parents were infuriatingly unhorsey but they knew all of the riders and their horses, coming from Yorkshire helped I suppose. Really though SJ and not just televised big occaisions is becoming limited to hardened afficionardos.
 
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