The insurance issues of teenage helpers/riders

ester

ester

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We have a spare pony,
Mum could do with a hand at times
A local teen (14) has put a very nice letter through the door asking if we ever need any help blah blah. She lives just around the corner and Mum works at her school so does 'know her'.

Is there any way around the insurance complications of someone of that age helping out/riding (the latter would only be hacking out with Mum if it happened)? What exactly are the implications these days? It isn't something I have given great thought to so far. I of course was that teen once and it would be nice if it could work but wary that it might not be worth it (we were considering getting some freelance help anyway).
We have BHS gold cover but the horses are not otherwise insured.
 
A rider only insurance policy for her would be a good starting point - pet plan do a young rider policy which isn't too expensive if I recall correctly. Then suitable public liability which you have already and some sort of share agreement signed by all parties (including her parents/guardians) so everyone knows what's expected of everyone and what the boundaries are. (Even if it isn't an official share as such)
 
I've had a few under 18s ride mine. They all have their own rider insurance cover and are covered under mine for 3rd party, as is anyone who rides with my permission who isnt a paid professional. My current rider is 15 and mad keen some of the others have been less keen and if I'm honest a total pain in the backside! Current one needs supervision and support but seems to be working out well.
 
Thanks both, it would be interesting to know if that covers handling too.

Essentially my mum is ok to look into it a bit/speak to her parents but wanted to spec out what might need to be in place if it were to happen. The girl currently helps out at the RS I did as a teen so it would be good for her ;). Frank isn't up for anything too exciting these days but he isn't a bad ride, most of the time :eek3: he has been a bit welsh of late but I suspect would improve if doing a bit more.
 
chaps89 said:
A rider only insurance policy for her would be a good starting point - pet plan do a young rider policy which isn't too expensive if I recall correctly. Then suitable public liability which you have already and some sort of share agreement signed by all parties (including her parents/guardians) so everyone knows what's expected of everyone and what the boundaries are. (Even if it isn't an official share as such)
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Good advice here
 
When I had a share (I'm 16 and think I first shared a horse at 14) I just had a BHS young riders insurance thing, I can't remember how much it was but very cheap. The horse I shared was insured too but we never actually signed any part loan contract or anything even though I shared the horse for over a year, I think a contract would be a good idea though. When I've had full loans in the past we've printed loan agreements off the BHS website and used those, I don't know if they have part loan agreements on there but it'd be worth a look.
 
Can someone please explain why the girl would need a rider only insurance policy? Any accident she has will be covered for third party by the owner's BHS policy. If she hurts herself then payouts are usually restricted to stuff like losing a limb or worse, and not a huge amount of money. Dental treatment is covered by the NHS at her age. I'm not sure why she would need it, and she might not have the money to buy it. It would be a shame to put off a willing worker who will be doing everyone a favour, including the pony.


OP, after the case earlier this year, I think you need a contract signed with her parents saying that they understand that riding and handling horses is a risk and that while you will use your best endeavours to keep her safe, you cannot guarantee that she will not be injured.

You must use the exact words 'best endeavours', other wordings like 'do everything possible' can land you in deep water legally.
 
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The rider cover type policies aren't always the most suitable for young people not in work - although that depends on the policy. Young riders can also be covered as Pony Club members, Junior BHS members and even through donating a regular amount to World Horse Welfare. If you are not in work you don't need the income protection bit of rider insurance - and that's often the expensive bit!
 
Third party on the owners horse may not provide the correct cover. It is there for unforseen incidences to a third party- for example rider falls off hacking, horse legs it home and runs down innocent walker (a genuine third party) along the way. Generally if someone enters a horses field they are accepting a known risk that an accident may happen for example. For the rider/handler to be covered for injuries/incidences to themselves, personal accident cover not third party/public liability cover would be needed. Which if this isn't on the horses insurance (and is often fairly limited cover anyway) this is where a rider plan can come in more handy. It will also often cover things like emergency vet fees (ie, sharer takes horse out for a hack, horse puts leg down rabbit hole and can't be moved and vet has to come to the scene) and for equipment (sharer drops saddle, has tack stolen whilst in their care) etc too- scenarios we all hope won't happen to us and little things like this are often forgotten about but can sometimes happen and be useful to have.
 
My 9 year old has rider insurance with pet plan. Works out about £4.50 a month. This includes personal cover too.
 
ycbm said:
Can someone please explain why the girl would need a rider only insurance policy? Any accident she has will be covered for third party by the owner's BHS policy. If she hurts herself then payouts are usually restricted to stuff like losing a limb or worse, and not a huge amount of money. Dental treatment is covered by the NHS at her age. I'm not sure why she would need it, and she might not have the money to buy it. It would be a shame to put off a willing worker who will be doing everyone a favour, including the pony.


OP, after the case earlier this year, I think you need a contract signed with her parents saying that they understand that riding and handling horses is a risk and that while you will use your best endeavours to keep her safe, you cannot guarantee that she will not be injured.

You must use the exact words 'best endeavours', other wordings like 'do everything possible' can land you in deep water legally.
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Agree with this. But would suggest 'reasonable' rather than 'best' endeavours: best endeavours is a very onerous contractual obligation that's only just short of a warranty.
 
My advice was given to me by lawyers. 'Reasonable' was deemed to be more open to interpretation that best endeavours. It was one hell of a boring days training!
 
ycbm said:
My advice was given to me by lawyers. 'Reasonable' was deemed to be more open to interpretation that best endeavours. It was one hell of a boring days training!
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When I have been doing contract negotiations, the legal advice on reasonable endeavours vs. best endeavours vs. requiring a supplier to provide a warranty about something have always been pretty specific and fairly consistent from one firm of lawyers to another. They are all accepted legal terms that have a legal meaning. That was in the context of contracts worth tens of millions of pounds though, which is quite different to an agreement between a private horse owner and a teenage sharer so it's quite possible that's something a court would take into account when interpreting the parties' intentions as expressed in a written contract. Should things ever end up there for poor Ester's mum, which I very much hope it won't!

If you think a day's training about this sort of c**p is boring, try sitting through several months of contract negs or supplier dispute resolution meetings without gnawing off your own limbs in boredom and frustration! But the livery bill doesn't pay itself, so...
 
Micropony said:
If you think a day's training about this sort of c**p is boring, try sitting through several months of contract negs or supplier dispute resolution meetings without gnawing off your own limbs in boredom and frustration! But the livery bill doesn't pay itself, so...
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I'd certainly have no fingers left :) !
 
ycbm said:
Can someone please explain why the girl would need a rider only insurance policy? Any accident she has will be covered for third party by the owner's BHS policy. If she hurts herself then payouts are usually restricted to stuff like losing a limb or worse, and not a huge amount of money. Dental treatment is covered by the NHS at her age. I'm not sure why she would need it, and she might not have the money to buy it. It would be a shame to put off a willing worker who will be doing everyone a favour, including the pony.


OP, after the case earlier this year, I think you need a contract signed with her parents saying that they understand that riding and handling horses is a risk and that while you will use your best endeavours to keep her safe, you cannot guarantee that she will not be injured.

You must use the exact words 'best endeavours', other wordings like 'do everything possible' can land you in deep water legally.
Click to expand...

No,the BHS Third Party cover does not cover the rider on your horse. It covers a Third Party if your horse damages someone/something while someone else is riding your horse.

This was unfortunately discovered by a local person when she was out riding with her friend on her horse and the horse was spooked by a helicopter. The rider fell off and broke her arm and was off work for some time. The BHS policy did not cover the rider. Had the horse galloped off and damaged someone else THEIR damage would have been covered.
 
Third party cover by the owner of the horse covers the rider on your horse if you are negligent or other people's damages if the rider is negligent riding your horse.

Only extremely expensive personal accident insurance would cover a broken arm that was no-ones fault. I doubt if a fourteen year old would be able to buy it.
 
Do not make an agreement to take best endeavours! This would effectively mean that you would be contracting to take a higher level of care than normally required by law.
 
When I had sharers, they were covered on my insurance as they had my permission and under 3rd party I believe.

Had a friend who loaned one from a RS whilst she was under 16, she took out basic riders insurance (RS asked her too, as she was covered when she was in lessons etc. under instructors/RS insurance, but not if she was schooling/hacking etc whilst not in a lesson or something like that) through what I think was an agricultural/farming insurance that offered rider cover. I think it was something like £15 a month and her parents were happy to pay that each month instead of a weekly lesson, so she only had 3 lessons a month instead of 4.
 
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