The job a horse does once sold. Thoughts & experiences?

measles

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This might sound like a strange post, especially coming from me, but a very good friend has the most spectacular and super 16.2hh mare with us. She had a seriously nice Flipper e'Elle foal last year and we have brought her very carefully back into work. However, she has become unlevel again behind and after lengthy investigations and with the blessing of a very experienced and senior vet my friend wants to find a broodmare home for her.

Therein lies the issue. My friend's instinct would have been to loan her as a broodmare to ensure that she is not ridden again but she has recently sold her UK base and now lives overseas so is not in a position to take her back again, perhaps at short notice.

Has anyone sold a horse with a caveat that it must not be ridden, or a similar restriction of use, or has anyone known of this being possible? My thoughts are that it will be very easy to mention when selling but that once she is sold nothing put in place may be honoured. The mare is only 8yo and so nice that someone might try again which is not, for the horses sake, what my friend wants. She would put her purpose as a broodmare only in a receipt or sales agreement but we know that might be worthless.

Other than keeping and loaning her out has anyone any suggestions about how to go about addressing this issue when a new home is found?
 

ArcticFox

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I think selling on means you have no say. You could write it on the passport but they can be thrown away and a new one obtained

Not sure if its worth asking the passport issuer if they could put a note on their record.

I think it's risky selling but you could look for a long term loan home at a local stud perhaps?

The problem with loaning is getting commitment from the loanee. I loaned a lovely mare long term but she was sent back after only 3 months through no fault of her own.
 

Worried1

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I've come to realise that people walk the walk and talk the talk to get a grubby little profit. For every story of a wonderful genuine homes, there's a always someone with a disaster story!

When Roxy's mum had her accident I found her a home and long term loaned her as a brood mare. This gave me control over her, she was not riding sound following a freak accident, however over time she became sound and like your friend I was worried that someone would try and ride her and sell as rideable.
 

measles

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Thanks, all. As I thought having anything water tight will be an issue :(

ArcticFox - that is her worry that she will come back when she is not in a position to easily be able to do best by her. She is such a lovely mare that it would be a temptation I'm sure down the line to try her again.
 

Worried1

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Forgot to say, she has remained with them for 6 years and bred 4 lovely foals, ultimately I have a decision to be made in the future but ill cross that bridge when I come to it. I had a lot of interest in her, she is well bred and showed real potential as a 4-y-o
 

measles

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I've come to realise that people walk the walk and talk the talk to get a grubby little profit. For every story of a wonderful genuine homes, there's a always someone with a disaster story!

When Roxy's mum had her accident I found her a home and long term loaned her as a brood mare. This gave me control over her, she was not riding sound following a freak accident, however over time she became sound and like your friend I was worried that someone would try and ride her and sell as rideable.

Sadly so. I loaned out our older broodmare years ago and went to pick her up again only to find in the preceeding 6 weeks a headcollar too tight had been left on her. I was lucky that I was in a position to take her back but this would be very difficult for this mare.
 

TarrSteps

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As said, there is no guarantee and I always worry about horses that go out in the world with a hole like that. I've seen bad ends even when the buyer KNOWS the hole and simply chooses to ignore the knowledge.

That said I've also known horses that were sold as not ever to be ridable again and, after a considerable period of time, they DID go back to do a job for someone. Not because of money grubbing or wilful abuse, just because time had passed, the details got lost and the horse sorted itself out.

Only keeping ownership keeps control though, sorry. :(
 

measles

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Many thanks for the comments. I suspected as much but thought it worth double checking for inspiration! It is a shame as she is such a quality horse, but then I am certain she will have more outstanding foals. I only wish I had the time and money for her and Saffy to run together as broodmares.
 

ArcticFox

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maybe farmkey (I have emailed them to ask) could create a symbol

- say a saddle with a fat cross through it -

that could be branded on both shoulders that could recognised as a symbol that shows the horse should not be ridden!

If we could campaign to get the message out there that this symbol is meant for this purpose then people would recognise it as much as the loss of use one.

just a thought......
 

undertheweather

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Why can't she be freeze branded with "DO NOT RIDE" and put details in microchip and passport.

It might be possible to sell a share in the horse with a contract?
 

Billabongchick

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I was going to say the same; branding with some sort of mark indicating LOU - nobody would want to ride out (at least in public) on a horse that is obviously marked as lame and it would put off anyone from trying to resell it as a rideable horse at a profit (wasn't there a story a while ago about a horse that was advertised on BD website as a schoolmaster and the old owner saw the ad about her lame and retired horse she had sold in good faith?)
 

Silmarillion

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I would have thought there is very little you can do once you've sold. You sell not only your responsibility to the horse, but your control over it. Exactly why I would never have sold my lame mare, even though it meant I couldn't have another horse.
 

Bubblegum

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We have ex-racers, and they have come from different sources. Charity, trainer and syndicate. Each time we have signed some random looking piece of paper to say we won't race them again.
Obvioulsy this would never cross our minds, as we have no wish to race them, but I wonder how this would hold up, if we did?
How do the racing charities get round this issue so it is legally binding?
Not excatly the same as your question, OP, but may hold a clue?
 

amage

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I would not in a million years brand her with do not ride! Think of it from a studs perspective. They are trying to sell her foal, prospective buyer asks to see the dam and are faced with that statement permanently marked on her??!! At that point it doesn't matter what stud say about how sound the mare is and how it's not hereditary they will struggle to find a buyer to believe them and take them at their word. And at first hint of any leg trouble in the mares young stock people would be straight back to the stud slating them. I think approaching studs direct is best option. If you did the right stud who successfully breed her she's worth far more to them pregnant that ridden. Other option is cover her to most fashionable current sire suited and sell her in foal. Yes that will cost money but solves problem
 

popsdosh

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Great in Theory but with the present market a huge risk financially ,so many in foal mares for sale for less than the stud fee of the foal they are carrying!
 

noname

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We have ex-racers, and they have come from different sources. Charity, trainer and syndicate. Each time we have signed some random looking piece of paper to say we won't race them again.
Obvioulsy this would never cross our minds, as we have no wish to race them, but I wonder how this would hold up, if we did?
How do the racing charities get round this issue so it is legally binding?
Not excatly the same as your question, OP, but may hold a clue?

There are formal non racing agreements. I have one for my horse. Its several pages long. Once I signed it the previous owner sent it with the passport to wetherby's and the passport is stamped (rather violently in red) " NON RACING". The micro chip is also updated with non-racing so my horse could never enter a racecourse. Basicly the microchips for horses are scanned as the horse enters the racecourse these days to ensure the trainer is running the correct horse.

This only works for racing because wetherby's have a decent passport & microchipping system in place and horses are scanned regularly. It would never work with other horses where the passports are pointless and mean nothing. If someone wrote on my WBs passport no riding, I could just get another one if the horse came sound.

Although non-racing agreements do work, I think its ridiculous that people think they can bind future owners or have some say how a horse is used once sold. Despite the non-racing agreement, the previous owners would never tell me what to do or how to look after my horse providing he is not abused or neglected.

With an 8yr old she could potentially come sound in 5 years time or new treatment could come to light, you never know! Agree with the suggestion above, embryo transfer clinics. (providing they stay at the clinic), some clinic's allow you to keep the mare post transfer so you need to check this carefully.
 

jessamess

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there is nothing you can do, apart from do your best to find a suitable home

You could look into the 'Loss of Use' freeze brand, but I know very little/if nothing on the subject so offer no knowledge!?
 

pipsqueek

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If your friend sells the mare she may as well forget what the buyer promises, sorry but there are no guarantees when you sell a horse (thinking of a horse sold to a livery where I am, all talk & hardly bothered to visit the poor old lad afterwards & a few months later saying he was wild..no wonder, left unhandled & unridden by an incompetent person..) He disappeared just before Christmas, apparently out on loan as the woman on the yard where I keep mine has got a boyfriend again :confused: I go for sj training on the yard where he came from & spoke to the lady that runs it, even she said he would better be put down if she had known..they are currently trying to track him down as he has apparently gone locally. Once a horse is no longer your property really you have no say in what is happening to it :/ Having said that I loaned out my now 18yo who I used to sj, (hind suspensory) but she has gone to clients of my OH who still shoes her & they are friends, not someone I advertised for, would be very wary of doing this
 
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smellsofhorse

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sorry but why breed from her?

she may be well breed but there are so many unwashed animals out there.

Stop breeding more!

if the owner wanted a foal for themselves I sort of think that's ok.
But horse is unrideable so straight off they think broodmare.
just wrong.
 
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