The PTS society

[Devonshire dumpling]

I don't personally own a horse anymore because although I could afford to keep it, shoe it, feed it etc, I couldn't afford any massive vet bills, ie going beyond insurance..............

Alot of people choose to keep and struggle with money (not talking about circumstances changing like loss of a job) but ppl actively go and buy a horse when they are struggling with finance, and often see a serious condition (treatable) arise and are advised to have the horse PTS or come to that conclusion themselves.

I personally had a very expensive horse who I kept as a pet at livery for 6 yrs rather than have him put down ( he was unridable with a heart condition) but was happy as a field ornament on heart meds etc (16.2hh TB) so not cheap on drugs and food and shoeing (lame without shoes), I then decided after the sad day came when he kidneys were affected to have him PTS and couldn't afford to do that again with another horse.

I can't help but think sometimes horses are put down because of financial reasons and if you didn't buy this horse in the first place, someone with lots of money may have bought them and they would not have been PTS........

I know this sounds a bit idealistic, but it makes me mad how freely PTS is recommended on this site, do right by your horse etc, well i sometimes feel its not right, its not right at all!

People replying to this thread please read carefully what I wrote before you twist my words, as I can't be doing with getting angry on such a nice sunny day!

 

[dawnpetenathshir]

I can see were you are coming from and to a point I agree with what you are saying. I will say though that others are often doing this rather than worry about their horse going to an unsuitable home and not being looked after properly. It must be an incredibly hard decision to make and would say it is not made lightly.

 

[chickeninabun]

Without wanting to make you angry DD, I have two horses, I don't have pots of money and it would make my life very difficult if either had a condition which went above and beyond my insurance payouts. But you can't live your life on "what-if's", as you'd never do anything. So you can't own a horse because "what if" it breaks a leg, you can't cross the road because "what if" you got run over..... etc etc.

In an ideal world, no horses wouldn't be PTS because of an owners financial situation but we are all far from ideal....

 

[joeanne]

Sorry, but I think you are living in cloud cuckoo land.
IF there are all these "rich" buyers, why are animals going through sales for peanuts?
There are worse things than a well placed bullet.
Thousands of TB's are sent to slaughter each year....they are a by product of racing, and were likely owned by said "rich" people. Said rich person still had no qualms about sending his no longer required animal to slaughter.....but it beats being sold to an unsuitable home and the rich person knows that and therefore IMO does the right thing by the horse.

 

[BSJAlove]

Sorry, but I think you are living in cloud cuckoo land.
IF there are all these "rich" buyers, why are animals going through sales for peanuts?
There are worse things than a well placed bullet.
Thousands of TB's are sent to slaughter each year....they are a by product of racing, and were likely owned by said "rich" people. Said rich person still had no qualms about sending his no longer required animal to slaughter.....but it beats being sold to an unsuitable home and the rich person knows that and therefore IMO does the right thing by the horse.

agreed.

 

[Devonshire dumpling]

Sorry, but I think you are living in cloud cuckoo land.
IF there are all these "rich" buyers, why are animals going through sales for peanuts?
There are worse things than a well placed bullet.
Thousands of TB's are sent to slaughter each year....they are a by product of racing, and were likely owned by said "rich" people. Said rich person still had no qualms about sending his no longer required animal to slaughter.....but it beats being sold to an unsuitable home and the rich person knows that and therefore IMO does the right thing by the horse.

I take what you are saying on board, and maybe I am writing it as too black and white! But I think you understand what I am saying.

I would love another horse or two, but won't as I can't provide for the what if's, this is how I feel about animals.

I have recently spent £300 on my dog for an eye removal, and I know this isnt alot of money, but I afforded it easily and didn't hesitate, I know some people won't even call a vet as they can't afford the bills, this includes any pet owner! As a Vetnurse I see ppl every single day come in whinging they can't afford the vets bills, well why have the fricken animal first?? Makes me mad!

 

[Hedwards]

I think it would be really lovely if the people who could afford a field ornament would be the people who end up buying them (before or after they become ornaments), however, I have to agree with you when you said it is a bit idealistic. Looking at it from another point of view, any horse could end up in a home where they are a field ornament, but they dont get the care they need - regardless of being able to afford it or not, so actually end up suffering even more, and would maybe have been better off being pts.

Its such a difficult thing, I have posted on here myself about whether it was time to give up with my current mare, many people did suggest pts, while others didnt, at the time i really thought pts was the best thing for her. However I have given her a bit more time, she is uneaven while ridden so is basically retired, other than plods around fields, and I'll keep her this way until i decide she isnt happy any more, she isnt cheap to keep due to her shoeing, but it's what i've decided to do. However, I would understand if someone in the same position would have had her pts.

 

[L&M]

My view is you don't have the money or the time, you shouldn't own a horse, end of.

I know this also sounds brutal but running a small livery yard, I have experienced a small minority of clients moaning that they don't have time to do their poo picking etc, putting their social life first, and won't call out a vet because they don't want to pay a bill.

I have had 2 recent cases of liveries trying to 'get rid' off elderley horses, whether selling or giving away, because they are no longer prepared to pay bills for them. If you are not prepared to look after your older horse, why expect somone else to want to do it for you? This 'disposable' society drives me up the wall......

Buying a horse is akin to having a child in my eyes - it is a huge committment and responsibility and some people go into horse ownership without taking this into consideration.

So yes, I do agree with you if we lived in an 'ideal' world, but would still advocate pts if the horse is dangerous as don't agree with passing these types of horses on.

 

[Damnation]

I am 19, I feed, shoe, pay livery, insurance etc for my horse on my own.

Yes I struggle towards the end of the month but you know what, you only live once!

I would rather see a horse PTS then left to suffer because the owner can't afford the thousands of pounds in vets bills. If they had a good quality of life before hand, and were well looked after, its quality not quantity.

I know a girl, who I want to personally slap. Her horse has a calcified hock, he isn't insured and she can't even afford painkillers or for the horse to be PTS. Now THAT is when you cannot afford a horse.

 

[Devonshire dumpling]

Sorry, but I think you are living in cloud cuckoo land.
IF there are all these "rich" buyers, why are animals going through sales for peanuts?
There are worse things than a well placed bullet.
Thousands of TB's are sent to slaughter each year....they are a by product of racing, and were likely owned by said "rich" people. Said rich person still had no qualms about sending his no longer required animal to slaughter.....but it beats being sold to an unsuitable home and the rich person knows that and therefore IMO does the right thing by the horse.

Also I didn't mean rich people, often its the people with very very little money who struggle through and pay the bills and go without food.

I find it very difficult when people say things like you have to live life, get a horse if it gets sick and you can't afford it cross that bridge when you get to it?

I won't comment too much more on this thread, I suspect it will be chewed over and spat out, but as someone once said to me that its often the nice people who don't comment on here and makes this place look so one sided

 

[Devonshire dumpling]

I am 19, I feed, shoe, pay livery, insurance etc for my horse on my own.

Yes I struggle towards the end of the month but you know what, you only live once!

I would rather see a horse PTS then left to suffer because the owner can't afford the thousands of pounds in vets bills. If they had a good quality of life before hand, and were well looked after, its quality not quantity.

I know a girl, who I want to personally slap. Her horse has a calcified hock, he isn't insured and she can't even afford painkillers or for the horse to be PTS. Now THAT is when you cannot afford a horse.

omg!

 

[joeanne]

I do understand what you are saying, if you can't bear the thought of having to have a horse PTS then no, I would say you are right in not owning a horse.
I do however think you are being unreasonably harsh on those who can cope with it (myself included....I have had three PTS in under a year).
I dont judge you for not wanting to run the risk of struggling with a large vets bill. But on the flip side, dont judge those of us that do!

 

[Ellies_mum2]

Sorry, but I think you are living in cloud cuckoo land.
IF there are all these "rich" buyers, why are animals going through sales for peanuts?
There are worse things than a well placed bullet.
Thousands of TB's are sent to slaughter each year....they are a by product of racing, and were likely owned by said "rich" people. Said rich person still had no qualms about sending his no longer required animal to slaughter.....but it beats being sold to an unsuitable home and the rich person knows that and therefore IMO does the right thing by the horse.

Agreed.


I know of a race horse breeder who last year had 3 horses PTS because they didn't make the grade. I asked why he didn't sell them and at least make some of the money back he had invested in them. He said they would face an uncertain future and at least this way he knew what had happened to them.


Can't fault him for that. As has been said before - there are fates worth than being PTS

 

[Devonshire dumpling]

My view is you don't have the money or the time, you shouldn't own a horse, end of.

I know this also sounds brutal but running a small livery yard, I have experienced a small minority of clients moaning that they don't have time to do their poo picking etc, putting their social life first, and won't call out a vet because they don't want to pay a bill.

I have had 2 recent cases of liveries trying to 'get rid' off elderley horses, whether selling or giving away, because they are no longer prepared to pay bills for them. If you are not prepared to look after your older horse, why expect somone else to want to do it for you? This 'disposable' society drives me up the wall......

Buying a horse is akin to having a child in my eyes - it is a huge committment and responsibility and some people go into horse ownership without taking this into consideration.

So yes, I do agree with you if we lived in an 'ideal' world, but would still advocate pts if the horse is dangerous as don't agree with passing these types of horses on.

Oh yes of course, I meant perfectly treatable conditions that cost a lot of money!

I am pro euthanasia if its for the horses sake! I just hate the attitude on here of i gave it a good few years, can't afford it now it needs me, pts

 

[joeanne]

I know a girl, who I want to personally slap. Her horse has a calcified hock, he isn't insured and she can't even afford painkillers or for the horse to be PTS. Now THAT is when you cannot afford a horse.

THAT is the kind of scenario I would totally understand your reasoning on. However I would not have a problem with the girl going down the PTS route if treatment proved too costly!

 

[Devonshire dumpling]

Agreed.


I know of a race horse breeder who last year had 3 horses PTS because they didn't make the grade. I asked why he didn't sell them and at least make some of the money back he had invested in them. He said they would face an uncertain future and at least this way he knew what had happened to them.


Can't fault him for that. As has been said before - there are fates worth than being PTS

Thats pretty selfish imo, ppl are so up their own arses they assume know one else could look after horses, alot of ppl do look after horses well, including ex racers, why pts incase its not looked after properly, I am sure the horse would use life and see what happens...

 

[Natch]

I can't help but think sometimes horses are put down because of financial reasons and if you didn't buy this horse in the first place, someone with lots of money may have bought them and they would not have been PTS........

Agree. Mostly. I think PTS is a good option for some situations.

I think in general the economy had such a high that everyone thought they could own a horse, then when the recession hit stuff hit the fan and maybe not everybody's attitudes are revised yet that money doesn't grow on trees.

 

[joeanne]

Thats pretty selfish imo, ppl are so up their own arses they assume know one else could look after horses, alot of ppl do look after horses well, including ex racers, why pts incase its not looked after properly, I am sure the horse would use life and see what happens...

Selfish or responsible?
Tb's are the ones who sadly seem to suffer the most as the by product of racing. Supply far exceeds the demand and as such many end up in the sales.
For me personally, I feel the ones who are PTS rather than sent to the sales ring are the lucky ones!

 

[Spudlet]

I would sooner see a horse PTS that passed on and on and on in a downward spiral, because I have seen the bottom of that spiral and it ain't pretty. I've no wish to see horses shot. But I would rather that than see some of the other stuff I've seen - and still see, some nights when I'm asleep.

Horses are kept safe from harm because they have financial value, and sentimental value. Sadly, an unrideable horse with ongoing health or behavioural problems has little financial value, and unless it's your horse, that you love, it has little sentimental value either, at least not to anyone else. So what keeps those horses safe when they're given away? You are really shoving them out there into the cold. When you take on an animal, you take on the responsibility to keep it safe and protect it from harm, to the best of your ability, for the rest of its life. That means you feed it, and water it, and care for it, and make it well when it's sick, and if you can't do that any more you find it a good and trusted home, and if you can't do that, you face the fact that actually, death is not the worst fate that animal can suffer. And you cry your tears and you live with the guilt, because that is the deal. That's the bargain. They give us everything, and they ask for so little in return - but part of our half of the bargain is a peaceful ending, without fear or pain.

And I'm sorry if people don't like it. I'm sorry if people think I'm a horse killing psycho. But I will carry on saying what I do, because I believe it to be right.

 

[Devonshire dumpling]

I do understand what you are saying, if you can't bear the thought of having to have a horse PTS then no, I would say you are right in not owning a horse.
I do however think you are being unreasonably harsh on those who can cope with it (myself included....I have had three PTS in under a year).
I dont judge you for not wanting to run the risk of struggling with a large vets bill. But on the flip side, dont judge those of us that do!

MISREAD AS USUAL!!!

When did I say I couldn't bear putting something to sleep?? I put about 4 animals to sleep on a daily basis! I often make the decision on my own pets earlier than others would, this is what makes me mad, ppl not reading properly what I say! Putting horses to sleep because you can't afford it or because you think other ppl can't look after your pet as well as you can makes me mad, can't afford them don't have them, end of!

 

[BSJAlove]

im 18 and i have 3 horses, i pay for it all myself and im skint at the end of each month but they make me happy and i make them happy. when i cant afford them anymore, ill try and sell them t good homes and if they dont, id rather have them PTS then put through market. where else would they go? and if i were faced with huge vet bills, if i couldnt afford it, i wouldnt hesitate to PTS after all the alternate options had been explored. as someone said above, theres alot worse that could happen to a horse then a well placed bullet.

 

[Flame_]

OP, are you OK with healthy young lambs being killed for food?

 

[Devonshire dumpling]

I would sooner see a horse PTS that passed on and on and on in a downward spiral, because I have seen the bottom of that spiral and it ain't pretty. I've no wish to see horses shot. But I would rather that than see some of the other stuff I've seen - and still see, some nights when I'm asleep.

Horses are kept safe from harm because they have financial value, and sentimental value. Sadly, an unrideable horse with ongoing health or behavioural problems has little financial value, and unless it's your horse, that you love, it has little sentimental value either, at least not to anyone else. So what keeps those horses safe when they're given away? You are really shoving them out there into the cold. When you take on an animal, you take on the responsibility to keep it safe and protect it from harm, to the best of your ability, for the rest of its life. That means you feed it, and water it, and care for it, and make it well when it's sick, and if you can't do that any more you find it a good and trusted home, and if you can't do that, you face the fact that actually, death is not the worst fate that animal can suffer. And you cry your tears and you live with the guilt, because that is the deal. That's the bargain. They give us everything, and they ask for so little in return - but part of our half of the bargain is a peaceful ending, without fear or pain.

And I'm sorry if people don't like it. I'm sorry if people think I'm a horse killing psycho. But I will carry on saying what I do, because I believe it to be right.

you are going off track..................... passing horses on is a different subject! I too see abuse in my job, it aint pretty! I am fed up with ppl having animals because they want a nice life themselves, but can't afford treatment when the worst happens, i think you should plan for the worst and see if you can afford it

 

[AmyMay]

I can't help but think sometimes horses are put down because of financial reasons

In most cases I'd say. And very sensibly too if the funds dictate.

 

[joeanne]

Not misread at all.
If I felt that xxxxx amount of £'s was not feasable to treat a condition, then yes I would PTS if it was going to affect the quality of that animals life by NOT having said treatment.

 

[Natch]

Thats pretty selfish imo, ppl are so up their own arses they assume know one else could look after horses, alot of ppl do look after horses well, including ex racers, why pts incase its not looked after properly, I am sure the horse would use life and see what happens...

Unfortunately I think this is in an ideal world, and we don't live in that one at the moment. The racehorse rehab charities do a brilliant job but don't have nearly enough resources to take on any reasonable percentage of the horses who come out of racing. The amount of people who have the skill, knowledge and finance to take on an ex-racer and turn it around into a decent "other" riding horse are few, can only take so many horses, and let's face it, they aren't everyone's cup of tea anyway.

That leaves Jo Bloggs down the road who thinks they might have enough knowledge and just about have enough money to meet its basic needs, and then we're back to the situation in the original post about taking on horses when you don't have the money (or skill, knowledge, help etc).

 

[Meowy Catkin]

On the other side of the coin...

where I used to live I would hack past a field with a horse that quite frankly looked like the living dead. It was so thin and weak. It normally had a rug on and was in a field with alot of grass. Once it had no rug on and I actually cried at the sight. It still brings tears to my eyes now.

The first time that I saw him, I asked my YO (who knew everyone horsey in the area) about the horse. She knew exactly which horse it was before I even described where he was. She explained that in her opinion the horse should have been PTS 10 years ago. Yes, that's correct, 10 years.

He had alot of chronic health problems and it was quite frankly selfish to keep him alive in that state. The owner did care for him as best she could and spent alot of money on him but he was never going to get better. Every Vet that saw him (apparenly the owner had gone throgh every vet in the area because as soon as they said PTS, she wouldn't use them again) said that 'there is nothing that you can do to improve his quality of life, he needs to be PTS'.

Just horrible and cruel. I promised my horses that I would never do that to them.

We had another owner who wasn't as bad, but she did keep her horse alive a good two years longer than was really kind. Every time he lay down, he couldn't get up again, so he was regularly hoisted up with a tractor. Finally he cast himself in his stable and the farmer refused to demolish the stable around him. The owner called another farmer but he said 'no' too, so she had to PTS.

 

[Devonshire dumpling]

OP, are you OK with healthy young lambs being killed for food?

Valid point! But I feel very differently from farm animals and pets, I would happily eat horse if it was bred for that purpose. But then I strongly disagree with farmers not treating their animals when the vet is needed, i feel this thread is going a bit down the wrong route

 

[Devonshire dumpling]

On the other side of the coin...

where I used to live I would hack past a field with a horse that quite frankly looked like the living dead. It was so thin and weak. It normally had a rug on and was in a field with alot of grass. Once it had no rug on and I actually cried at the sight. It still brings tears to my eyes now.

The first time that I saw him, I asked my YO (who knew everyone horsey in the area) about the horse. She knew exactly which horse it was before I even described where he was. She explained that in her opinion the horse should have been PTS 10 years ago. Yes, that's correct, 10 years.

He had alot of chronic health problems and it was quite frankly selfish to keep him alive in that state. The owner did care for him as best she could and spent alot of money on him but he was never going to get better. Every Vet that saw him (apparenly the owner had gone throgh every vet in the area because as soon as they said PTS, she wouldn't use them again) said that 'there is nothing that you can do to improve his quality of life, he needs to be PTS'.

Just horrible and cruel. I promised my horses that I would never do that to them.

We had another owner who wasn't as bad, but she did keep her horse alive a good two years longer than was really kind. Every time he lay down, he couldn't get up again, so he was regularly hoisted up with a tractor. Finally he cast himself in his stable and the farmer refused to demolish the stable around him. The owner called another farmer but he said 'no' too, so she had to PTS.

If the horse needs PTS then course it should be done, i am referring to horses put to sleep because owners can't afford a bill!

 

[AmyMay]

Thats pretty selfish imo, ppl are so up their own arses they assume know one else could look after horses, alot of ppl do look after horses well, including ex racers, why pts incase its not looked after properly, I am sure the horse would use life and see what happens...

Have you read BJ666 heartbreaking post???