The reason you should always look at feed labels...

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LankyDoodle

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I pride myself on being quite diligent about what goes into my horses' feeds. I know the calorific content of their feeds, how heating they are likely to be and why. Or so I thought.

I've been feeding my winter poor doer Alfabeet, as Dengie SAYS it's ideal for conditioning, and someone here had also recommended it. He was previously on speedibeet, and maybe stupidly, without questioning it (apart from to look at ingredients), I moved him slowly over to Alfabeet. Curious, I decided I'd look at the calorific content of both (I am ignoring the differences in protein content, oil content etc for the moment). To my horror I find that I've blindly dropped the calorific content of my horse's feed by moving from speedibeet to Alfabeet. Speedibeet has 12.4 mj/kg and Alfabeet has 10.5! I am shocked by this, but also mortified that I had not checked this before swapping him, and had just taken for granted that as Alfabeet was marketed as a conditioning product it would suit him better.

I am so annoyed at myself. We all make mistakes but I try so hard to get feed right, and then make a blooper like this! I prefer speedibeet as well - easier to mix, better consistency etc. So I'll be looking to move back to that slowly. Grrrr.

Moral of the story: never take anything for granted. Ignore flashy marketing and actually read the label. Like I said, most of the time I do - with the chaffs, I know exactly what the mj/kg is for each of the ones I use. Same with the conditioning cubes when I use them.
 
Agree with you completely about reading the labels, and especially the MJDE/kg content if you are looking for conditioning feeds. I must say though, that AlfaBeet is a great feed and I have used it myself to help with condition, so I don't think it is wrong to say it is 'conditioning', it is just not as 'conditioning' as unmolassed beets like Speedibeet!

In fact, I must say I don't really like the word 'conditioning' as most feeds can add condition if fed in sufficient quantities! Much better to compare how many 'calories' are contained in one kilogram of feed.

I also think people get confused because Speedibeet is Laminitis Trust approved, so they assume it is a low calorie food - but it is not the calorie content that is restricted in LT approved foods, it is the soluble carbohydrate level.
 
Thanks TGM. Yes, this is the problem I had.

I tend to avoid speedibeet with my cob because it is a lot of calories he doesn't need. He gets it if he needs it.

With my big horse, I read the Dengie blurb about it being good for adding condition and thought 'oooh perfect', but I didn't consider how much speedibeet was already helping his condition. I really like Dengie feeds so Alfabeet was an easy conversion for me; but if speedibeet offers a higher calorific value per kg it's better for him. Obviously I can get the same calories from Alfabeet if I feed more of it, though.

I just feel so dim to have cast speedibeet aside when it actually has a higher calorie content.
 
you guys know what ratio is best calcium to phosphorus? I have heard said 1:1 up to 1.2:1.
Any ideas how to up phosphorus levels safely?
 
[ QUOTE ]
you guys know what ratio is best calcium to phosphorus? I have heard said 1:1 up to 1.2:1.
Any ideas how to up phosphorus levels safely?

[/ QUOTE ]

either by feeding the recommended ration of a hard feed or providing a broad spectrum vit and min supplement - you would not want to feed one element on its own as this can upset the balance of the diet. have a look at www.thehorse.com and sign up for the nutrition news letter some of it is irrelevant as its american but there are some really interesting articles on nutrition on there. You can also do a search, type in phospherous and it should come up with stuff about it.
 
I only really look at energy and how much sugar and starch there is. But saying that, apart from a 6 week stray over to Simple Systems, I have pretty much fed my two the same thing from day 1 and dont look to change - I increase or decrease the amount fed according to weight/condition but thats it.

When I had a native and a cob I fed them a bog standard chaff, mix, linseed and sugarbeet and they were completely fine. When I acquired two TBxs, I went into overdrive on the feed front and was constantly checking the calorie content of this and that. I finally settled on Hi-fi lite, spillers fibre nuts (sometimes spillers conditioning nuts for the CB) and speedibeet. I doubt I will change again as I completely agree with the adage if it aint broken dont fix it.

However in the case of supplements I am always trying various things ...
 
I agree with you re the 'if it ain't broke...' thing, CBAnglo. I really think this cowbag is bullying me, though. I don't ever remember being THIS nervous around another person or made to change my way of doing things by another person, like I have by her. My husband reckons bullies of her kin start by brain washing you ('you can't possibly know what's good for that horse'), then they reprogramme you to THEIR way of doing things by being aggressive, insulting etc.

The thing with Lanky is, he's the most gentle equine I've had the pleasure to own; but she's feeding him behind my back as well as him getting a small amount of conditioning cubes from me (only when needed, which has been twice - when he came to us and was swapped to hay and when he'd moved to this yard and initially lost his appetite he dropped off alarmingly). He's turning into equine monster from hell. Nothing I can't handle but I really don't enjoy having to push him out of my space, battle with him to get the bridle on, having an extra spooky horse, a nappy/strong willed horse, especially one that is well over 17hh!
 
I really do feel for you, as I was in a similar situation, although my old YO seemed to have a bit more common sense than yours.

Has your husband had a word to her about feeding him?

Also, could you just say that you have spoken to previous owner/vet and apparently he is intolerant of blah blah so you need to make sure he is only fed the meals you have prepared? One of mine is incredibly intolerant of starch and if I fed it to him he would go mental. As a precaution the other one doesnt get starchy foods either (they have had their feed bowls mixed up before). I have always made it very clear that under no circumstances are either to be fed without my permission.

If I were you (and had the security of my MIL's field) I would just lay down the law. He will be fed what you say and handled as you say (dont say anything about leaving). If she tells you to leave, then go to the field. If you let this situation carry on, it is going to become intolerable for you (if it isnt already).

I would only do this if you are 100% sure you can keep your horses safely at your MILs - most people dont stand up to their YOs for fear of being thrown off with nowhere to go or being bad mouthed.

By feeding him behind your back and putting doubt into your mind she is sabotaging you - dont fall for it. If you think about it, you were perfectly fine with him before. You only started having problems when she got involved, which should tell you enough about her horse handling skills.

And if the above wasnt enough, just remember this woman thinks she can cure everything with sudocrem.
 
I think it all depends on the horse. My older mare is on Alfabeet and it's keeping her in good condition. I think Alfabeet is advertised as "condition without the fizz" so that may explain the difference in the MJ rates. I took my mare off sppedibeet when I first got her as it sent her loopy (non-molassed I knwo but still). My YO uses Fibrebeet and says she prefers that to Alfabeet - it's from the same stable as Speedibeet but don't know what its MJ rate is. I believe the theory behind these feeds is that the horse utilises the nutrients from the (unmolassed) sugarbeet and the alfalfa more effectively when they're mixed at 75%-25% which they are in Alfabeet and I presume Fibrebeet. I think that's the theory anyway.

x
 
Yes, fibrebeet is 11MJ, Speedibeet is 12.4MJ and Alfabeet is 10.5MJ. However, Alfabeet has a higher % protein which is better for muscle build-up. I just want weight on mine, though - I can work him to get muscle on him.
 
Sorry if I'm hi-jacking you post, but you really seem to know your stuff.

I should really know, but it just all confuses me too much. My feed has, protein, fibre, oil and ash listed, what are all the different things for, should i be looking at these ingredients or looking at other things to find the best feed.
 
It's TGM that knows her stuff! I try my best regarding my own horses and sometimes others, but am no expert. She's the feed guru!
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I tend to look for (believe it or not) the calorific values of feeds and also the sugar content (for my good doer cob mainly). I don't want something that is highly mollassed for any of them (but that's upto you) because sugars can be bad for various reasons.

You wouldn't really want an oil-heavy feed unless you wanted condition on your horse; but what is important when choosing between feeds is definitely the calorific value. For eg, you might have feed A which has 5% oil content but (unlikely) only 8MJ/KG, and feed B has 0% oil but has 10MJ/KG. Just an example really, but if you want condition on your horse then you need to feed it more calories and that can come from anywhere, not just oil. I do feed vegetable oil to my WB to help his general condition (good for coats as well as weight).

I also look for feeds that are very high in fibre, as a fibre-based diet is more important to me where possible, so if this is important to you then when comparing feeds you will need to look at this figure.

Protein is good for building muscle and is high in conditioning feeds like Baileys. If you want topline etc, then look for the best protein content.

The MDJ thingamy per KG is the calorific value of the feed per KG, so for more weight you should really look to feed the highest calorie feed possible where all your other requirements are met. I want low starch and no cereals, so that rules certain feeds out.

You also, as this post has shown, learn different brands and take their products for granted (the fact they will either not fizz your horse or will help condition etc). So just read the labels.

It depends on your horse for what you should be looking for. If your horse has allergies then you will need a feed to cater for them. There are so many variants. Most people tend to look at cereal content and calorific value, then the blurb ont he packet!
 
I agree with you about food content, but also about sell by dates. I won a competition a few years ago where I won a load of feed vouchers and went to our local merchant to buy the feed. I was amazed to find that the sell by date on the bags of expensive feed that I wouldn't otherwise buy was almost out of date and on one occassion actually was. I contacted the promoter of the competition as they were the feed manufacturer who was manufacturing this feed, and they made discreet enquiries and found that the merchant was buying the feed in at cost price from another much larger feed merchant who was buying huge quantities in bulk and then not shifting the food, thus selling it very cheaply to the second merchant. They made complaints to the larger feed merchant and this dreadful practice of selling out of date or nearly out of date feed stopped. I would also add that a lot of people are very ignorant (in a nice way) about speedi beet and do not realise that it is approved by the Laminitis Trust and that other quick beets equivalents have molasses in. there is actually more sugar in a medium size carrot than in a whole scoop of soaked speedibeet for example.
 
I have to be very careful in checking labels too. I have a few soya intolerant horses so I check very carefully. It's pretty much in everything.

I love Speedie Beet as well and use it for everyone. I use mostly grass nut and a few oats with it in winter but some are on Stud Balancer. Everyone also gets flax and D&H Sure Limb depending on the individual's needs.

Terri
 
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