The sacked horse hitting ex teacher is going to court

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Pearlsasinger

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yes that is certainly one source of funding. I wouldn't be surprised if she is found NG. A bad decision by the RSPCA, too much risk.

I guess that RSPCA hope that they will be awarded costs when she is found guilty. I can't see it myself. I wonder if the RSPCA had to prove that they would be able to pay all costs before they were allowed the court time. I would think that a jury trial can get very expensive.
 
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Upthecreek

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I have never seen sabs following a hunt without their balaclavas on so would be really surprised if they had taken them off for this bit of filming. And thinking that she was trying to get the naughty pony loaded sharpish to try and get her children away from the situation. That’s probably why this happened. Pony didn‘t look scared at all and just gave in and loaded once it was reminded not to be naughty…..so in my opinion she was trying to protect her children and get them away from the scary situation asap.
Were they sabs or monitors? Do they really all wear balaclavas? It happened because she let the child attempt to load the pony on the side of the road whilst apparently being intimidated by scary sabs. Why didn’t she take control and load the pony quickly herself?

I’m sure her defence will be along the lines of what you suggest. Trouble is there is video of her, but not of the sabs being intimidating and scary.
 

Lexi_

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As I said somewhere earlier in the thread, I am absolutely not buying the “desperate to get the pony loaded” excuse. She was standing chatting on the other end of the lorry and left the kid to it. She wasn’t watching the kid or doing anything that looked as if she felt threatened or in a rush. She only showed any sense of urgency when she decided to briefly lay into the pony.
 

Upthecreek

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As I said somewhere earlier in the thread, I am absolutely not buying the “desperate to get the pony loaded” excuse. She was standing chatting on the other end of the lorry and left the kid to it. She wasn’t watching the kid or doing anything that looked as if she felt threatened or in a rush. She only showed any sense of urgency when she decided to briefly lay into the pony.
I think that may be her downfall. The video speaks for itself really. It’s going to be difficult for the defence to argue that her actions were as a result of being intimidated and scared when that’s not backed up by the video evidence.
 

Sandstone1

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I have never seen sabs following a hunt without their balaclavas on so would be really surprised if they had taken them off for this bit of filming. And thinking that she was trying to get the naughty pony loaded sharpish to try and get her children away from the situation. That’s probably why this happened. Pony didn‘t look scared at all and just gave in and loaded once it was reminded not to be naughty…..so in my opinion she was trying to protect her children and get them away from the scary situation asap.
Its hardly unusual for anyone to wear a mask these days...
 

Pearlsasinger

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I think that may be her downfall. The video speaks for itself really. It’s going to be difficult for the defence to argue that her actions were as a result of being intimidated and scared when that’s not backed up by the video evidence.

I wonder how the RSPCA expert witness is going to explain to a non-horsey jury the difference between 'pony club kicks' and what was seen on the video. There will be plenty of video clips of riders doing pony club kicks, at shows etc.
They could even show clips of racing a tight finish with whips. that can't be abuse,the RSPCA don't even prosecute 'misuse of the whip cases'. Jockeys who are found guilty of MOW by racing stewards only lose a few days employment, certainly not their whole careers.

Are they going to be able to say the pony doesn't feel it on his ribs but did on his chest? How will they explain the clip that will be shown of a fly landing on the skin and the pony obviously twitching because he has felt it?

The whole thing is a nonsense fuelled purely by the anti-hunting lobby.
 

minesadouble

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A true horse man has a partnership with a horse based on respect not violence. If a horse were to barge me its verbally reminded or pushed over. A horse could easily kill a person if it wanted to so violence will get you no where
Oh my word you would have our old 13.2 NFs dream owner. He would run over the top of you as soon as you opened his stable door an inch when we first got him. I'm not sure your verbal reprimand would have much impact on his little brown ass as it disappeared off into the sunset, as for a push, he'd be long gone before you could lay a finger on him 😂
 

Sandstone1

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Oh my word you would have our old 13.2 NFs dream owner. He would run over the top of you as soon as you opened his stable door an inch when we first got him. I'm not sure your verbal reprimand would have much impact on his little brown ass as it disappeared off into the sunset, as for a push, he'd be long gone before you could lay a finger on him 😂
Maybe he had learnt not to trust people. I wonder why?
 

Upthecreek

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I wonder how the RSPCA expert witness is going to explain to a non-horsey jury the difference between 'pony club kicks' and what was seen on the video. There will be plenty of video clips of riders doing pony club kicks, at shows etc.
They could even show clips of racing a tight finish with whips. that can't be abuse,the RSPCA don't even prosecute 'misuse of the whip cases'. Jockeys who are found guilty of MOW by racing stewards only lose a few days employment, certainly not their whole careers.

Are they going to be able to say the pony doesn't feel it on his ribs but did on his chest? How will they explain the clip that will be shown of a fly landing on the skin and the pony obviously twitching because he has felt it?

The whole thing is a nonsense fuelled purely by the anti-hunting lobby.
I have no idea. The defence could of course present evidence of all manner of ‘abuse’. Whether or not it is relevant or comparable to this particular case will be for the jury to decide. Unfortunately for the teacher her association with hunting will not help her case.
 

Gallop_Away

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Were they sabs or monitors? Do they really all wear balaclavas? It happened because she let the child attempt to load the pony on the side of the road whilst apparently being intimidated by scary sabs. Why didn’t she take control and load the pony quickly herself?

I’m sure her defence will be along the lines of what you suggest. Trouble is there is video of her, but not of the sabs being intimidating and scary.
I'm sure the defence could easily ask fellow hunt members who were also there that day to give witness statements if that is in fact the case and sabs were being intimidating.
I'm still wondering what illegal hunting they had hoped to film in a car park with women and children. I do work in a legal profession although I work in a solicitors, but this is also a line of questioning I think her barrister may also wish to pursue.
 

Berpisc

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Maybe he had learnt not to trust people. I wonder why?
He might also have learned that he could move people. When you watch interactions between horses ( as I am sure you know) and other herd animals, who moves who is an important part of group politics. It is in humans in a more complicated way.
 

Sandstone1

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He might also have learned that he could move people. When you watch interactions between horses ( as I am sure you know) and other herd animals, who moves who is an important part of group politics. It is in humans in a more complicated way.
I agree, horses use a lot of body language and a look, a ear back or a leg raised is often enough to get another horse to move. Yes they will at times also kick and bite each other. As said before though we are not horses and horses are not humans. They can and do learn they can make us move and we can make them move by getting them to move their feet etc.
We can all go round and round with this, but I for one will not except that what that woman did was nothing more or less than a temper tantrum on a innocent animal.
Times are changing hopefully for the better even if slowly and its going to be interesting to see the result of the court case.
 

smolmaus

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you are the leader of the herd, like the description or not. Or at least I hope you are because someone has to be and for the horse's own safety that has to be you. You are riding your horse along a busy road, something appears that terrifies the horse, your leadership will mean the difference between life and death.. Yours and the horses. You are not the "asker of silly questions" you are the boss who says "do it now" and the horse is the follower who understands he has to obey without question. As the leader you have given him the confidence.

I'm not sure people train to make interaction a battle of wills in fact I think most try to avoid that. I also can see no relevance to dogs and wolves. To me that just seems to be people wanting to come up with theories. Horses are very different animals.

You say there is no herd of two. How does your horse see that? You see your relationship as being the provider of resources how does he see it? Does he feel safer with you as his leader?

To get back to Irish Milo who is still missing an answer to her post. We are in the real world. The 16.3 three year old has had very little handling and most of it has been poor, he is in the stable and decides to exit over the top of the handler. Other than ask the silly question of "please don't do that" what are you going to do?
Another example you have just taken on a 2yo bottle fed horse. He only has 2 modes, firstly on his back feet and secondly his teeth attached to your tits whenever you get close enough. (that is a real life example of one of mine)

The trusting relationship part is fine but these are big powerful animals and, when young especially, not always very respectful of their human.
theories are fine but then there is real life. :)
Yes it has zero to do with dogs and wolves which is the exact point i was making. Using terms like Alpha and "dominance theory" is idiotic to use with horses as we CANNOT physically dominate them. You're agreeing with me and trying to wordplay it into an argument.
 

Birker2020

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I wonder how the RSPCA expert witness is going to explain to a non-horsey jury the difference between 'pony club kicks' and what was seen on the video. There will be plenty of video clips of riders doing pony club kicks, at shows etc.
They could even show clips of racing a tight finish with whips. that can't be abuse,the RSPCA don't even prosecute 'misuse of the whip cases'. Jockeys who are found guilty of MOW by racing stewards only lose a few days employment, certainly not their whole careers.

Are they going to be able to say the pony doesn't feel it on his ribs but did on his chest? How will they explain the clip that will be shown of a fly landing on the skin and the pony obviously twitching because he has felt it?

The whole thing is a nonsense fuelled purely by the anti-hunting lobby.
I've never heard such rubbish in all my life. It scares me that you are a teacher and you think her behaviour is appropriate or justified somehow and how you think the consequence of her actions are disproportionate to what has happened to her.

How can you possibly compare pony club kicks with deliberately kicking a horse in the chest after you have 'lost it' with it?? And comparing hitting a horse with a whip on its ribs and kicking it in the chest - its not the same thing my any stretch of the imagination.

It doesn't matter a jot whether the sabs were being intimidating or not.

I think you have genuinely lost the plot on this one.
 

ycbm

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I'm still wondering what illegal hunting they had hoped to film in a car park with women and children
And going back to the original point of the thread. They weren't in a car park. They were parked on the verges of a road which looked like it was probably a public road. The sabs were probably hoping to film some of the very prevalent antisocial behaviour, like blocking roads while you wash down a horse, which takes place at hunt meets.
 

TPO

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I've never heard such rubbish in all my life. It scares me that you are a teacher and you think her behaviour is appropriate or justified somehow and how you think the consequence of her actions are disproportionate to what has happened to her.

How can you possibly compare pony club kicks with deliberately kicking a horse in the chest after you have 'lost it' with it?? And comparing hitting a horse with a whip on its ribs and kicking it in the chest - its not the same thing my any stretch of the imagination.

It doesn't matter a jot whether the sabs were being intimidating or not.

I think you have genuinely lost the plot on this one.
You have just posted about hitting your horse on the head
after the 100th time of smacking his nose
Know when to call it a day instead of constantly trying to provoke posters so you can then play the victim.
 

ycbm

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I've never heard such rubbish in all my life. It scares me that you are a teacher and you think her behaviour is appropriate or justified somehow and how you think the consequence of her actions are disproportionate to what has happened to her.

How can you possibly compare pony club kicks with deliberately kicking a horse in the chest after you have 'lost it' with it?? And comparing hitting a horse with a whip on its ribs and kicking it in the chest - its not the same thing my any stretch of the imagination.

It doesn't matter a jot whether the sabs were being intimidating or not.

I think you have genuinely lost the plot on this one.
Please read what PaS actually wrote Birker. She is musing on what will be presented to a non horsey jury, she is not saying the teachers behaviour was justified or acceptable to her. She doesn't think that and she and others have made that very clear to you now, many, many times over.
 

Birker2020

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Know when to call it a day instead of constantly trying to provoke posters so you can then play the victim.
In other words cower to you and your toxic cronies and stop coming on here. Nah I don't think so. You won't drive me away and why should I let you. You are just one of a toxic few on here that treat people with an alternative opinion despicably and disrespectfully and you are the ones constantly trying to provoke me so don't come that nonsense. You are just bullies plain and simple and inflame the situation to incite others into your way of thinking.

I've never played the victim and I haven't hit my horse on the head, I have smacked his nose as he has nipped me yes. And I don't apologise for that. Having a conversation with him didn't work at the time .

I have also put a reply a few back about how I have dealt with him now which is more effective way than tapping his nose but I don't expect you were interested in that because you couldn't convert that into a negative remark. Post 466.

If I got a whip out on him and beat him several times across the face or the chest or the bum or I kicked him in the chest or ribs then I deserve what I get and I would never do those things because I never have treated any horse like that and never would. Its a huge privilege to have a horse and one that I take in the highest regard. However, I won't be bitten either.

Of course PAS who is saying its my fault I am bitten/nipped or have my coat sucked is because I'm in the way has absolutely never in her life been bitten or kicked, has never done anything wrong or made any mistake and is 100% perfect in everyway.....

If you don't want to take any notice of what I say please by all means put me on UI.
 

TPO

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In other words cower to you and your toxic cronies and stop coming on here. Nah I don't think so. You won't drive me away and why should I let you. You are just one of a toxic few on here that treat people with an alternative opinion despicably and disrespectfully and you are the ones constantly trying to provoke me so don't come that nonsense. You are just bullies plain and simple and inflame the situation to incite others into your way of thinking.

I've never played the victim and I haven't hit my horse on the head, I have smacked his nose as he has nipped me yes. And I don't apologise for that. Having a conversation with him didn't work at the time .

I have also put a reply a few back about how I have dealt with him now which is more effective way than tapping his nose but I don't expect you were interested in that because you couldn't convert that into a negative remark.

If I got a whip out on him and beat him several times across the face or the chest or the bum or I kicked him in the chest or ribs then I deserve what I get and I would never do those things because I never have treated any horse like that and never would. Its a huge privilege to have a horse and one that I take in the highest regard. However, I won't be bit.

Of course PAS who is saying its my fault I am bitten/nipped or have my coat sucked is because I'm in the way has absolutely never in her life been bitten or kicked, has never done anything wrong or made any mistake and is 100% perfect in everyway.....

If you don't want to take any notice of what I say please by all means put me on UI.
🙄 you conveniently skipped past @The Fuzzy Furry post as she has screenshot of you being a bully.

You were a horrible bully and nasty as applecart and hopscotch. Now as birker as soon as something doesn't go your way you claim to be be a victim of bullying and that you've never done anything wrong to anyone. Maybe instead of constantly derailing threads you could spend some time looking through the posting history of all three accounts to gain some perspective.
 

Pearlsasinger

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Of course PAS who is saying its my fault I am bitten/nipped or have my coat sucked is because I'm in the way has absolutely never in her life been bitten or kicked,

No, actually, I haven't, I watch their body language and am aware of my own. I have kept horses for almost 50 yrs, in multiples up to 5 and the nearest that I have come to being bitten was when the TBxWelsh grabbed the toggle on my coat while I was feeding her in the field and swallowed it!

I would not dream of smacking a horse's nose, or any other part of its face, it's all equally bad to me. I push them away if I need to.

I am pleased that you have now found a better way but there is really no need to become evangelical about it, like a reformed smoker, condemning those who have not yet seen the light.:rolleyes:
 

Birker2020

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I am pleased that you have now found a better way but there is really no need to become evangelical about it, like a reformed smoker, condemning those who have not yet seen the light.:rolleyes:
Err, I wasn't????? :mad:

I don't know why you come out with this stuff other than to provoke me into another reaction.
 

YorksG

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Err, I wasn't????? :mad:

I don't know why you come out with this stuff other than to provoke me into another reaction.
Perhaps you could ask yourself why you make personalised, unpleasant comments. It appears to me that you do so, to then complain about being bullied, when actually, you are the one who appears to be behaving in a bullying manner.
 

Pearlsasinger

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You have been condemning Sarah Moulds all the way through this thread for hitting her horse on the head a few times on camera, and yet as TPO showed you, you have told us yourself that you hit your horse on the head (that's where his nose is) 100s of times. Personally I feel that it is wrong to hit a horse anywhere on the head *once*
 
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Gallop_Away

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And going back to the original point of the thread. They weren't in a car park. They were parked on the verges of a road which looked like it was probably a public road. The sabs were probably hoping to film some of the very prevalent antisocial behaviour, like blocking roads while you wash down a horse, which takes place at hunt meets.
Ok but then I think this will still also help towards her intimidation defence. "The masked men were filming me and my children". Sabs also do use filming as an intimidation technique and I'm sure they could as hunt members to testify to that effect.
 

Amymay

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Ok but then I think this will still also help towards her intimidation defence. "The masked men were filming me and my children". Sabs also do use filming as an intimidation technique and I'm sure they could as hunt members to testify to that effect.
How does intimidation lead to you kicking and slapping your horse? And if you feel intimidated why leave a child and pony unattended?
 
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