The sacked horse hitting ex teacher is going to court

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ycbm

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This is the RSPCA trying to avoid criticism for not acting and also having a go at hunting, I think.

It simply isn't in the public interest to waste court time and money to prosecute this when there is a huge Covid backlog of dealing with real criminals. If the CPS had been given it I don't believe it would have met the threshold to get to court. IMO it's a misuse of charity funding against a women whose punishment has already been grossly disproportionate to her crime.
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milliepops

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To me I don't know if "it was only..." excuses the behaviour or if this, possibly OTT, action is required to try and stamp out the "low level" violence towards horses.

Perhaps this womans case will make others who are a bit handsy think twice or learn to control their tempers? Perhaps the sacking and court case will empower others to speak up when they see similar instead of being worn down to accept that this is what happens sometimes.
Problem is, i just don't think people WILL feel empowered. Depressing as it is, i don't think one person can make much difference in most situations. It's hard to work out how to say what i mean without coming across like a person with a massive superiority complex, which i am not, i teeter on the "we shouldn't have horses" rabbit hole edge pretty often. but there are a lot of people out there riding and handling horses with pretty minimal horsemanship/skill, who would give you a gobful if you commented on it. In fairness it's also easy to make a wrong judgement of something you happen upon the wrong moment and it is not always helpful to go wading in telling people they are Doing It All Wrong (what makes the onlooker *right* anyway?)

Behind closed doors i think it's almost impossible to have any influence. on the affiliated competition stage there are at least the red cards etc to flag the biggest abuses that happen in public. I have mostly bowed out of grass roots stuff, i got asked to judge for a little show once and i said to one participant's (accredited) instructor that the horse was lame and i wouldn't judge it, and was told to stop party pooping. well i just left them to party by themselves. I pretend it's not happening now. It feels like an unsolvable problem. the RSPCA aren't going to be videoing little informal events or yards 24/7 o_O
 

eahotson

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What I find to be the saddest part of this is that all/nearly all of us can say that we have witnessed the same types of behaviours, if not worse.

Isn't it upsetting that this type of behaviour towards horses is verging on the "norm" and that there are people so willing to dismiss it because "people lose their tempers"?

I don't know where I stand exactly in regards to this person's behaviour. If she hadn't have done something "wrong" she wouldn't be in any bother. So whether what she did was a big wrong or a small wrong it's still a wrong?

She's probably also had that type of behaviour normalised. She has lost her job, is going to court and no doubt has had a very hard time of it since she took the action that she did.

To me I don't know if "it was only..." excuses the behaviour or if this, possibly OTT, action is required to try and stamp out the "low level" violence towards horses.

Perhaps this womans case will make others who are a bit handsy think twice or learn to control their tempers? Perhaps the sacking and court case will empower others to speak up when they see similar instead of being worn down to accept that this is what happens sometimes.

Honestly some of the replies in the various threads about this woman have been more distressing than what she did but that's the joy of the Internet I guess.
We could start ,of course,with the violence routinely dealt out in competition rings up and down the country.Mostly it's ignored.The worst thing otherwise is a fine and suspension.No criminal charge,no loss of job or vilification on social media.
 

J&S

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Sadly she is an "easy target", as people have said, there is far worse cruelty going on which does not get dealt with apropriately because it is hidden and not "out there". I too think she has been punished enough and that this court case is over kill.
 

windand rain

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I don't condone her actions she was stupid/arrogant enough to think she could do it without repercussion I don't think her actions warrant the hang draw and quarter process that has gone on. The RSPCA are reknown for going after easy targets mostly avoiding the more serious stuff from the thugs that perpetuate violence against horses. I too have seen far worse at shows usually in the lorry park and yes I did try to do something about it but it is not easy when they are likely to turn on you with equal violence
 

Quigleyandme

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So the RSPCA will waste more of the money well meaning and trusting people donate or leave to them thinking it will be used to save animals from abuse and neglect on yet another spurious court case. Million pound donations to the Labour Party, plush new headquarters, the purchase of a large detached house for a cat sanctuary in which the director’s daughter and her eight pet cats were the only residents, rescued horses starved and neglected under their stewardship and hundreds of thousands wasted on prosecuting hunts. They are the bloody criminals here.
 

mariew

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Yup, agree it's using a viral media event to do some marketing for themselves, and I also wouldn't be surprised that the fact that she is a hunts woman has fuelled the fire. Trial by social media terrifies me as it just riles up the keyboard warriors into some sort of lynch mob mentality.

She did wrong but the punishment doesn't fit the crime
 

Nudibranch

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I don't know.
I'm a teacher.
I'm not a bunny hugger, and have given the odd wallop on the chest for downright rudeness in the past.
I have no time for the RSPCA.
I can't stand Packham.
I detest the way social media seems to have a bigger influence than the law these days.
I suspect she shouldn't really have lost her job over it.
I believe there are many worse cases of abuse and cruelty that should be dealt with.

And yet, I still can't muster any sympathy for her. The way she went at that horse, who wasn't being rude or dangerous, and kicked and smacked him in the face. That's pure temper. You just don't hit horses in the face. That is clear abuse and there is an element of an example needing to be made.

The fact that it's not the worst case of abuse doesn't mean it should go unpunished.
 

YorksG

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I don't know.
I'm a teacher.
I'm not a bunny hugger, and have given the odd wallop on the chest for downright rudeness in the past.
I have no time for the RSPCA.
I can't stand Packham.
I detest the way social media seems to have a bigger influence than the law these days.
I suspect she shouldn't really have lost her job over it.
I believe there are many worse cases of abuse and cruelty that should be dealt with.

And yet, I still can't muster any sympathy for her. The way she went at that horse, who wasn't being rude or dangerous, and kicked and smacked him in the face. That's pure temper. You just don't hit horses in the face. That is clear abuse and there is an element of an example needing to be made.

The fact that it's not the worst case of abuse doesn't mean it should go unpunished.
But surely "it" has already been punished way beyond what is reasonable?
 

SO1

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I think you are wrong there. I expect most people who donate to RSPCA know nothing about horses and are anti hunting l. Many of their supporters may have seen that video and been horrified and the RSPCA could easily have been lobbied by their supporters to prosecute. They may even have high net worth supporters who have been willing to donate to fund the case.

The RSPCA has some very wealthy supporters including Deborah Meaden who has horses https://www.looktothestars.org/charity/rspca

I agree there are certainly situations which are much worse including dodgy dealers and professional riders but because they are not seen by the right person they probably get away with it.

This is probably strategic they have to been seen to be doing something if they didn't they may lose supporters and they may even gain supporters from this case such is the vitriol against hunting from the average person. Think of it as a fundraising investment. Yes the case will cost a lot of money but it will raise the profile of RSPCA, may attract new supporters and stop supporters from leaving they could actually end up being financially better off by taking this to court than by letting it go.

I doubt they will win. If they do win it will be a wake up call for the equestrian community as anyone who is able to film similar sort of behaviour would be able to send it to the RSPCA and expect them to investigate.

What we don't know is if this was a one off incident where the stress of the situation lead to unacceptable behaviour or if this woman regularly treats horses like this. If this is normal behaviour for this lady then it is a very different situation than if it is a one off.

The RSPCA are beyond a joke! At the very least they should have their charitable status removed.
They have zero interest in animal welfare, I'm quite sure the vast majority of those who donate to them would not be happy to see their money spent in this way.
 
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Birker2020

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I've just read that she was suspended then sacked following a thorough investigation. And removed from her voluntary role within the pony club I assume due to a possible transference of risk that might be associated with a role like that. Something I've been saying all along could/might happen in such a situation anyone in a position of trust.

The RSPCA are attempting to bring 2 charges against her.

This is one of the links, the original one I read this morning on my mobile which was 9 hours old I can't find.
https://www.itv.com/news/2022-01-25/woman-to-appear-in-court-charged-with-kicking-and-hitting-pony
 
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Birker2020

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But surely "it" has already been punished way beyond what is reasonable?
It's not beyond what is reasonable though. It is perfectly reasonable given the role the woman did as a teacher.
https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/magistrates-court/item/animal-cruelty-revised-2017/
This is a guideline for animal cruelty I've just pulled from the internet in respect of sentencing guidelines. Have no idea if it applies in this case but what I'm trying to stress is the sentence third from bottom.

Those of you on the forum who say "but I smack my horse" or "I lost my temper last week with the pony" - its not relevant. But if you were a teacher, nursery worker, doctor, coach or anything else whose role is predominately working with children then it would be relevant.


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CanteringCarrot

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It's not beyond what is reasonable though. It is perfectly reasonable given the role the woman did as a teacher.
So if I did what the woman did to the horse, but I'm an office secretary (for example), my consequences should be different? Interesting to consider when it comes to animal abuse, that different professions are held to different standards.
 

Birker2020

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So if I did what the woman did to the horse, but I'm an office secretary (for example), my consequences should be different? Interesting to consider when it comes to animal abuse, that different professions are held to different standards.
Do you work with children in your role as office secretary? No. Therefore there is nothing to safeguard.
If you worked with children in your role as office secretary it could be construed that there is a risk to children. If you are that short tempered and a child gave you a mouthful of cheek you could react and slap the child. Doubtful that could happen I know.

But the role that the person in question did meant she was surrounded by children all day long. THerefore the transference of risk is greater.
 

J&S

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I think you are wrong there. I expect most people who donate to RSPCA know nothing about horses and are anti hunting l. Many of their supporters may have seen that video and been horrified and the RSPCA could easily have been lobbied by their supporters to prosecute. They may even have high net worth supporters who have been willing to donate to fund the case.

The RSPCA has some very wealthy supporters including Deborah Meaden who has horses https://www.looktothestars.org/charity/rspca

I agree there are certainly situations which are much worse including dodgy dealers and professional riders but because they are not seen by the right person they probably get away with it.

This is probably strategic they have to been seen to be doing something if they didn't they may lose supporters and they may even gain supporters from this case such is the vitriol against hunting from the average person. Think of it as a fundraising investment. Yes the case will cost a lot of money but it will raise the profile of RSPCA, may attract new supporters and stop supporters from leaving they could actually end up being financially better off by taking this to court than by letting it go.

I doubt they will win. If they do win it will be a wake up call for the equestrian community as anyone who is able to film similar sort of behaviour would be able to send it to the RSPCA and expect them to investigate.

What we don't know is if this was a one off incident where the stress of the situation lead to unacceptable behaviour or if this woman regularly treats horses like this. If this is normal behaviour for this lady then it is a very different situation than if it is a one off.
This comes under the heading of "Any publicitiy is good publicity"!
 

Birker2020

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southerncomfort

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I suspect statements from her supporters along the lines of ' she hasn't done anything wrong, the horse was being naughty' really didn't help her cause. I suspect if she'd expressed an iota of regret or remorse at any point the story would be old news by now.

Not sure how I feel about the prosecution. And I do think as a society we are very slow to forgive. But it's hard to feel sympathy for someone who refuses to acknowledge their poor behaviour.
 
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