thin pony laminitis

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afhtas

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My shetland has cronic laminitis . She is 27 . She initially got laminitis when in a very large field when i was having a baby 20 years ago and my husband did not notice anything was wrong . After that she lived in a very bare grass field and except in the Autumn and spring when she did get it sometimes fairly badly she was fine but the blacksmith said there was always a slight sign . She was shod and ridden and driven. We moved and she now lives in tarmac yard 1 and half hectares ( we llive in the CZ and it is an old farm yard. ) When she first came she did not like walking on the tarmac but since she has only had hay for the last 8 years she is fine and when she returns to her hay after a drink she canters back to the hay . As i have said she is very very active and has always been a narrow pony . She is now getting very thin .last year i got her to put on a little weight as i risked feeding her some nuts but she had a bit of Laminitis so had to stop at once . What can i do . Do i feed her again and stop as soon as she shows signs of laminitis??? There is absolutely nothing on the net about laminitis and thin horses !!! Please help
 
My 18yr old thin horse recently had to be pts due to laminitis ! Vet was puzzled at first as he was thin, no heat in feet ! No pulse in legs ! It was put down as Equine Metabolic Syndrome, which is a mixture of Diabetes, Cushings, Insulin intollerance etc..... I had never heard of it until my lad got it ! But looking back 6 months ago his forelock went all downy like candyfloss and I think this was the start of a chain of reactions that ultimately resulted in severe Laminitis. He was fine on the Friday and chronic on Saturday even his neck, crest and underneath was swollen almost like a toxic reaction ! It was horrible and there was nothing that could be done ! So I would look up Equine Metabolic Syndrome and look at the signs x Hope this helps x
 
Thank you for your help.
I must make it clear that Strawberry has no laminitis now .. not a sign ... she saw me carrying a bridle down the yard and she raced off at a canter .It was the grass even an almost bare field. Now no grass no laminitis . Except i know if i feed her nuts she will get it .
 
There is a good article here
http://www.hopeforsoundness.com/education/articles/additional/metabolicissues-stiller.html
One thing is the need to trickle feed, five tiny feeds per day, some special feeds are available in the UK, but I do't know about CZ
Are the teeth OK, try the carrot test (one small thick carrot) if she can't chew it she needs teeth done (normally no sugary treats should be fed). Feel for sharp edges and sore cheeks.
Get a worm count, and look under tail and in poo (add a bit to a white tray of water) for signs of other worms types, ask vet about Panacur or other worming strategies.
I am not sure about non mollassed dried sugar beet pulp, it would be worth asking others on this site, as this can be fed as a wet mash, and used to add minerals and vitamins. Feedmark in the UK have a lot of expertise in supplements including Slim Aid for laminitics (no sugars), but maybe you need a pro and a pre biotic, I think you could ask them for a sample before purchasing a large amount. I am also thinking about seaweed which is used for barefoot horses (Feet First by Nic Barker et al), see the Rockley Farm site, they might advise on linseed and other supplements if you ask nicely, Nic posts on here sometimes.
Most pony nuts and particularly senior rely on sugars, but these are a no-no for your horse, also avoid mollassed sugar beet nuts like the plague.
Can you walk in hand up a few hills for 30 mins per day to build up muscles. Rockley do a lot of work with different surfaces (pea gravel, bark etc) to build strength in feet, and of course feet are a big indicator of health in a horse.
 
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Has she been well wormed and also had her teeth looked at recently?

Sadly a thin lamanitic often has Cushings - we went down that road some years ago with one of the school ponies. Sadly we made the decision to put him to sleep as the pain killers didn't work on him.
 
Unmollassed sugar beet is safe to feed to laminitics and will hekp to put condition on as will micronised linseed. As with everything though monitor carefully as some horses react to beet. Is his hay soaked? Soaking to remove sugars can make a huge difference and will make it easier to eat if he is struggling with teeth problems.
Personally I wouldn't feed a pro + pre biotic as they can increase lactic acid making the problem worse, yea sacc is beneficial though.
 
touchstone said:
Personally I wouldn't feed a pro + pre biotic as they can increase lactic acid making the problem worse, yea sacc is beneficial though.
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tell me more, about yeast sac, is that a yeast derivative, if so it sounds like the stuff Nic Barker and Sarah Braithwaite suggest in ther book Feet First, they also go for seaweed and linseed meal.
As pro and pre are often recommended for gut problems, I wonder how the lactic acid works, I take Yakult if I have a problem in the tum or gut and it works for me.
I found this on yest sac,
www.horsegroomingsupplies.com/horse-chat-forum/get_topic/2/000214.html
seems to be a pro biotic
 
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There is an oldie in the yard, not ill, just not had enough tlc for a while, it is under new management, and in spite of not being able to chew properly it is gaining weight, it is on Allen an Page Fast Fibre as a hay substitute, this is a feed based on sugar beet pulp, possibly grass (it is green) and minerals etc. If you can get a bag I would do do, it is dried pellets which have to be soaked, but I would phone or email A&P to make sure it is low in sugars, and suitable for your boy, they may have a supplier in CZ else will deliver at cost to you direct. They also do a veteran , again you need to check on sugars, I would tend to go for an anti-laminitis diet over an oldie diet.
I suggest the above as a convenient alternative to sugar beet pulp plus the seaweed, yeast sac and linseed meal, but with buying the straights you know exactly what you are feeding.
 
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Hi, yes Yea sacc is a live yeast culture that acts as a probiotic, but it has the opposite effect of other pre/probiotics which feed the lactic acid, both prebiotics (FOS) and probiotics (live lactic acid bacteria) increase lactic acid production in the hindgut which can be a cause of laminitis.

I'd recommend contacting Jackie Taylor on The Metabolic Horse as she knows her stuff on this.
 
MrsD123 said:
tell me more, about yeast sac, is that a yeast derivative, if so it sounds like the stuff Nic Barker and Sarah Braithwaite suggest in ther book Feet First, they also go for seaweed and linseed meal.
As pro and pre are often recommended for gut problems, I wonder how the lactic acid works, I take Yakult if I have a problem in the tum or gut and it works for me.
I found this on yest sac,
www.horsegroomingsupplies.com/horse-chat-forum/get_topic/2/000214.html
seems to be a pro biotic
Click to expand...
I believe Nic B and Sarah B have moved away from their diet recommendations in Feet First now and highly recommend supplementing according to forage analysis.
Forageplus is the name of Sarah's service and supply website.
Getting sugars in diet down (short over grazed grass is stressed grass it seems so likely to be high in sugars) supporting gut fibre fermenting bacteria and supplementing with appropriate minerals if necessary seems to be working for many horses. Things are moving so fast it's hard to keep up. lol
There is an emergency diet recommended on the Yahoo group Lucypriory recommends. I have heard from some that this diet is often enough to improve horses dramatically. Of course every horse is individual so it seems there are no guaranteed fixes just a detective journey for owners.

http://www.performancebarefoot.co.uk/
 
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Have you tried something like Alpha Oil, is supposed to be low in sugar but is higher in protein and has oil on it already, you could try topping it up with a dollop of veg oil on top. Might help.
 
MrsD123 said:
There is an oldie in the yard, not ill, just not had enough tlc for a while, it is under new management, and in spite of not being able to chew properly it is gaining weight, it is on Allen an Page Fast Fibre as a hay substitute, this is a feed based on sugar beet pulp, possibly grass (it is green) and minerals etc. If you can get a bag I would do do, it is dried pellets which have to be soaked, but I would phone or email A&P to make sure it is low in sugars, and suitable for your boy, they may have a supplier in CZ else will deliver at cost to you direct. They also do a veteran , again you need to check on sugars, I would tend to go for an anti-laminitis diet over an oldie diet.
I suggest the above as a convenient alternative to sugar beet pulp plus the seaweed, yeast sac and linseed meal, but with buying the straights you know exactly what you are feeding.
Click to expand...

Personally I like this advice. I also feed my laminitic prone elderly pony heat treated charcoal to remove toxins fromhis body as it is inert and absorbs all toxins and also Rosehip supplement good for laminitics. I also hegderow pick from time to time and feed 'sticky willy' that long climber that is excellent for digestion and my pony can't get enough of it. If he ever gets runny poos (on the odd occasion I have fed him haylage) I feed him a handful of carob kibble or locust bean for a few days to clear his stomach.
 
Thank you for all your help .
I have found a supplier of sugar beet pulp . How much should I feed her . I will work up slowly but not sure what the goal amount should be . She is 10hh and of narrow build even when she was young . Perhaps a dry weight idea would be best
 
chestnutcob said:
My 18yr old thin horse recently had to be pts due to laminitis ! Vet was puzzled at first as he was thin, no heat in feet ! No pulse in legs ! It was put down as Equine Metabolic Syndrome, which is a mixture of Diabetes, Cushings, Insulin intollerance etc..... I had never heard of it until my lad got it ! But looking back 6 months ago his forelock went all downy like candyfloss and I think this was the start of a chain of reactions that ultimately resulted in severe Laminitis. He was fine on the Friday and chronic on Saturday even his neck, crest and underneath was swollen almost like a toxic reaction ! It was horrible and there was nothing that could be done ! So I would look up Equine Metabolic Syndrome and look at the signs x Hope this helps x
Click to expand...

havent read the entire thread yet but EMS and cushings are different illnesses and are treated differently.
 
have you had your pony tested for EMS? its a quick simple blood test. laminitus is a side effect of EMS and therefore if your pony has EMS this needs to be treated and the lammi will get better alongside that treatment.

make sure your sugar beet is the sugar free one. normal standard sugar beet is bad for them. they need to be fed a low glycaemic diet - much the same as a type 2 diabetic.

i feed mine speedi beet and happy hoof. she has 14 metformin a day and has also been diagnosed with cushings (they are different illnesses - much like type 1 and 2 diabetes i believe) and is on one pergolide a day.

she was in but very stiff. she is 15. she is now out all day with no muzzle (sec A pony) on not much grass but it isnt a bare paddock. the exercise is better for her as the toxins dont congregate in her feet.

try anitlam by topspec for your pony. you only need a little bit all day in a bit of chaff. it is specifically designed for lammi prone ponies - give them a call as well as they are very helpful.

i would err on the side of caution in feeding high oil chaff - it is a weight gain feedstuff and you dont necessarily need the weight gain. she should be fine on a non mollassed chaff recommended by the LT
 
From what I have learnt on the Equine Cushings/Insulin Resistance Yahoo group, it sounds like your pony is IR. I agree that very low sugar and exercise is what they recommend so Speedibeet and soak your hay for a minimum of one hour.
Sign up with them, there is masses of info to read and lots of advice from experts in the group. Have your pony blood tested first to get a diagnosis, ACTH for Cushings and Glucose and Insulin for IR, then you have proven results to work on.
Good luck, hope you get your pony well again.
 
You don't say how much in weight the hay you are feeding ? and if you soak it or not if so for how long etc

You can feed any of the below for condition

Speedibeet
Dengie unmollassed range, has higher oil content so will put weight on
Dengie Alfa A Lite
Spillers high fibre cubes
Oil, sunflower, increase and decrease as necessary
 
afhtas said:
Thank you for all your help .
I have found a supplier of sugar beet pulp . How much should I feed her . I will work up slowly but not sure what the goal amount should be . She is 10hh and of narrow build even when she was young . Perhaps a dry weight idea would be best
Click to expand...

It must be unmollassed don't forget, what have you found ?
 
emma3870 said:
i would err on the side of caution in feeding high oil chaff - it is a weight gain feedstuff and you dont necessarily need the weight gain. she should be fine on a non mollassed chaff recommended by the LT
Click to expand...

That's what OP is asking for info on though, unless I've got it wrong
 
Thank you for your help though i think some of you have not read my post
Strawberry is a 10 hh shetland of a very light build . She has had laminitis badly about 18 years ago . She is 27 now and rather thin . Since moving to the cz she has been so good on a tarmac 1 hetre yard as much hay as she can eat and two years ago i pushed my luck and fed her a tiny handful of nuts each day when she was in the stable with my tb. she had a short go of L . But now is as fit as a flea . I see her from the window go down to get water and canter back to the hay al by herself . She is very thin though.I have found sugarbeet pulp and have fed her 10 days and I think she has put on weight !!! So thank you again for your help
 
Yep I use speedi beet on my lami prone pony... The other thing is a good broad spec vit and mineral supp and linseed is great for omega oils to help with condition without sugars :)
 
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