Think dog has dodgy disks

[Snuffles]

Clumber yelping today when moving, straight down the vets who thinks its probably disk in neck or back!
Just what I wanted to hear, only had him a few months. He had randomly whined when I touch him unexpectedly or if he backs into something, Thought it was because he was nervous as sometimes he behaves as if Im going to hit him.Vet thinks it may be down to grumbling problems with his spine!. He also posed the question that his suspected exercise induced collapse may have been down to this, and not true EIC? Hes really down at the moment. I am just praying that its a hiccup due to him overdoing it when on his walk ,and doesnt mean surgery. Poor dog, hate it when they are in pain.
Clumbers apparently prone to back problems, (along with eye problems , skin problems etc!) Well he's certainly straining my wallet since Ive had him as well as emotions. Got horse with spinal problems too

 

[TGM]

Don't panic too much until you know for sure. We used to have a springer spaniel who suddenly develop a back problem when she was about two years old. Vet said it probably was arthritis in the spine, as you can imagine we were very worried for her future. However, with some painkillers short term, rest and a ban from jumping down off the seat of OH's van, the back problem totally disappeared and never reoccured in the rest of her fourteen years with us.

 

[Snuffles]

He has been put on Metacam, and rest! The rest bit will probably be difficult. Seems to be when he turns his head and body slightly to the right. Getting paranoid about keeping him straight now ! I will be awake tonight listening out for him now! Two dogs and two horses with medical problems now. I am thinking of asking the vet if we can go into partnership.

 

[Clodagh]

I hope he just gets over it, how worrying for you.

 

[Snuffles]

The miracle that is metacam! He has stopped the yelping within 24 hours of going on it! Hoping that after the weeks course whatever it was will have resolved. Big problem is restricting exercise! I cant bear the look on his face when I bring him back after 10 mins on a lead instead of 45 mins off lead full pelt! Feel much happier about him at the moment.

 

[Clodagh]

Good news.

 

[Snuffles]

Poor dog in a state today much worse, waiting for my appointment with vets. Really upset that hes in such pain. If he needs an MRI or something other than X ray I will have a long trip to another vets, bit worried as I don't drive long distances and haven't got anyone to with me. Crossing all fingers and toes it wont come to that.

 

[Suzie86]

Hi Snuffles, I've just been through this with my 4yr old cocker spaniel. One day all of a sudden he couldn't run - instead of trotting along he was waddling. He was being a bit weird about going to the toilet and looed uncomfortable so I thought it could be that his anal glands needed doing as he's prone to issues there. Well got them sorted but he got progressively worse throughout the day to the point where you couldn't touch him and he was lying there crying. He was all twisted and it looked as if his stomach was bulging. Of course this was a Saturday evening so one expensive trip to the emergency vet later....!

We were told it was nothing internal but he had likely pulled a muscle, and given metacam. This helped but he was still uncomfortable so after a few more visits to the vet he was referred to the RVC for tests. He had all sorts of tests done but to cut a long story short he was diagnosed with degenerative disk disorder, and a slipped disk.

Luckily no surgery was required, just lots of rest (no walks at all for over a month) and strong painkillers and anti immflamatories.

Eventually it just sorted itself out. He's now back to normal but I know his condition now means this is likely to happen again in the future For now though, he is back to being his usual self and it was all sorted through insurance.

Fingers crossed your dog makes a speedy recovery!

 

[Snuffles]

Glad to hear your doggie is better. Mine at the vets now having x rays. He was even yelping in the car when I drove him down even though I was only going about 20mph, lots of road humps in my road too ! Think he will be referred to RVC too. Just looked it up on the net, and means a trip on the M25! I don't do motorway driving. How did you cope with a 4 yr old spaniel with no exercise ? Did you have to use a crate ?Trouble is as soon as they feel better they want to carry on as normal whereas if its us that's sick we know to be careful ! X rays don't always show up disc problems do they so if it is that probably mean MRI etc. There are two fairly local surgeries that have a mobile MRI visit, but only once a month, and guess what, they've just had their visit !

 

[Snuffles]

ETA, five x rays later and inconclusive ! v large bill,not insured, was in the process of getting quotes. Well I don't begrudge it just got to find it .

 

[Moobli]

Sorry to hear about your dog. How is he now?

 

[gunnergundog]

ETA, five x rays later and inconclusive ! v large bill,not insured, was in the process of getting quotes. Well I don't begrudge it just got to find it .

A herniated disc will not show up on X-ray.......you need MRI.

 

[Snuffles]

Hi Gunnergundoog, that is the next step if medication not working. Hoping can avoid as it will apparently cost about £1800 ! However the speed it happened it makes sense its a disc.
However, would it mean surgery or still carry on with medication ? There are no "neuro deficits" at all according to vet. He is more comfortable this morning, a couple of pain issues but nothing like yesterday but on painkillers plus metacam now. I am getting reproachful looks as he has only been out for toileting and no walk, he is an extremely active and enthusiastic dog normally!
Sorry to keep posting, but Ive no one to bounce thoughts off !

 

[gunnergundog]

Hard to say as so much will depend on the vet you see, their experience, what the various test results tell them, age of dog etc etc. One Clumber I know was allowed to have two or three separate occurrences before he was operated on; another was operated on straight away. The first dog remained on medication between episodes and had to have about four to six weeks cage rest each time if I recall . Unfortunately, this dog whilst showing no neurological issues initially did start to present as things progressed. Have they suggested a myelogram?

Try and PM Aru maybe?

 

[Snuffles]

Yes vet did mention as cheaper alternative, again at another premises, but said that this sometimes causes problems ? Going back to vets Friday am for follow up and will discuss further then. He has had two ouchy episodes today, which is far better than yesterdays every few minutes. I think I must stop googling as getting more depressed. Havent come across Aru will investigate

 

[Suzie86]

How did you cope with a 4 yr old spaniel with no exercise ? Did you have to use a crate ?Trouble is as soon as they feel better they want to carry on as normal whereas if its us that's sick we know to be careful !

Thankfully this is our show cocker, we also have 2 working springers (1 and 4 yrs old) and if it was either of them I really don't know what we would have done! Luckily the cocker is naturally the laziest dog in the world so it was ok! As you say though as he started to get better he was trying to charge around in the garden - when he was suffering he wouldn't even attempt to get up!

Sorry to hear about the vet bill, what bad timing!! Hope you get an answer soon though. RVC were fantastic.

 

[ester]

I would possibly suggest going elsewhere sooner rather than later if your vets are struggling, otherwise you will just rack up bills without actually getting anywhere.

 

[Snuffles]

No local vets have the equipment like MRI or CT, so they would all be struggling with diagnosis

 

[ester]

That's what I meant, it might be worth getting him referred sooner rather than later.

 

[Aru]

Get a a referral and mri if disk disease is suspected.its the gold standard for a reason .xrays are used to rule out other thing but rarely actually definately diagnose ivdd, as its soft tissue as opposed to a true skeletal issue.other diagnostics are not as reliable...though these can rule out some other issues. mri and crt have made myelograms etc a bit defunct.you get more information from the advanced diagnostics with less risk.

However will knowing exactly where the issue is help the dog and change the treatment plan? do you plan to do surgery on this dog? or conservative tx.if surgery is an option mri sooner rather then later....if not an option knowing exactly where the disk is bulging may not change the treatment plan it will just confirm ivdd in x area....or send you looking elsewhere if not ivdd.

 

[Snuffles]

Hello Aru and thank you . I think I will want to go down the MRI route despite the cost just to try and get a definite diagnosis. Stressing me out worrying. He has perked up since being on painkillers and of course now wants to go out for his walks. I think the fact that I have to restrict him is almost as stressful as worrying about diagnosis. Mobile MRI apparently not back in area for 3 weeks! I have read so much on the net( big mistake) that I am terrified that hes suddenly going to get paralysed or something so surgery might be needed
if he has a ruptured disk. The fact that he initially improved then suddenly got worse concerns me. I will try and bottle up worries now and stop posting as people will get fed up ! Thanks to everyone who has offered advice.

 

[Aru]

Tbh its all about the cage rest with ivdd unless its acute injury/ uncontrollable pain/ paralysis then strict cage rest is often a recommended treatment even before surgery. Paralysis that can occurs after a rupture may need surgery asap but grandual onset may not always. many dogs cope with bulging disks when carefully managed or when surgery is not an option.I have seen dogs with no hindlimb function or ability to urinate recovery with cage rest and pain relief alone as they had very diligent owners who learned to express bladders etc .however it is strict rest.we cage and toilet walk only.no pottering, no loose in one room.its cage and complete rest to keep them as still as possible.sedate if needed. most dogs do give in and accept their fate once they get used to their new routine(they dont like it initally!but once they get used to the crate most adjust...or give up )
The nsaids,like meloxicam, hide the pain and can lead to them overextending themselves and making the issue worse as they feel better and damage themselves further.

Worth asking on the daschhund forums as this is a massive issue and very common in the breed and many will have been in your shoes and able to offer support and handholding!

8 weeks cage rest is what I tend to go with as conservative tx for this disease but this may differ from patient to patient. I wouldn't be concerned about a 3 week wait for mri unless the dog is in a lot of pain or unless you want or need to do surgery earlier.

The last issue to keep in mind is that this issue can occur in more then one site even after surgery has been preformed so management becomes very important.
Harness only. Keep lean never fat, try and keep fit as musculature along the back will help and avoid high back strain exercises-jumping for ball etc.

Good luck!
http://youdidwhatwithyourweiner.com/dog-crate-rest-tips/ also handy lil blohs like these exist to help on the bad days.

 

[Snuffles]

Thanks again,. Strangely vet has not recommended cage rest I did ask. I would find it very difficult to cope with that myself I have a horror of anything being confined, birds etc and as dog is extremely active and is waiting for his exercise slot at usual routine times ! .Will delve further during visit tomorrow. Bought a harness today. Sorry said I wouldn't keep posting Ill shut up now !

 

[Aru]

Ive only ever meet this issue in small dogs mostly dachshunds so perhaps that's we are happy enough to cage!easier to confine a dachy then a spaniel! And again....it may not be definately ivdd at this stage....muscular injuries do also happen as well.they are just less common.

As forfor posting almost everyone on here has had a ill dog at some stage or another no ones going to judge you for being worried... and we usually like to hear how people are getting along...even lurkers like me do tend to like to see updates!
Feel free to post away support or even just venting is what this forum is great for!

 

[Snuffles]

</script> cols="60" tabindex="1">OK so Im posting again. Dog been on tramadol for 10 days and metacam, no pain episodes. Back to vet today for follow up he's fairly sure that its not disk related, so we are assuming a strain or sprain etc. and to start weaning him off the tramadol and see how he gets on.Doesnt think we need to go down the MRI route.This evening for the first time he yelped again I cant believe it, (hadn't started reducing meds) How long would you expect for a strain or pulled muscle to take to heal. we are 17 days in . He has no other symptoms at all except pain when he turns to the right.? Hes still on short lead walks. Am I being too impatient. Im leaning in the direction of MRI but don't want to waste £1800 obviously

 

[MeadowView]

My Beagle has disk problems in his neck. First episode was when he was about 4 he responded to pain meds (tramadol and carprieve) so didn't have an MRI. Vet recommended using a harness to walk him and a raised food and water bowl. He was fine until about 4 years later when it reoccurred. He responded well again to meds and lots of rest and has had another more minor episode since. As soon as we suspect he's getting a bit sore we rest him and give him the meds and he's doing really well still manages to run around and play with our younger beagle. Hope your dog is ok and you get to the bottom of it but if it is disk problems I would advise the harness and raised bowls and look our for early signs. Its awful seeing them in pain.

 

[gunnergundog]

</script> cols="60" tabindex="1"> he's fairly sure that its not disk related, so we are assuming a strain or sprain etc. .......... How long would you expect for a strain or pulled muscle to take to heal. we are 17 days in . He has no other symptoms at all except pain when he turns to the right.? Hes still on short lead walks. Am I being too impatient. Im leaning in the direction of MRI but don't want to waste £1800 obviously

How long is a piece of string? Not helpful, I know, but a lot depends on which muscle(s) you are talking about, how bad the injury is, how well the dog is able to compensate in order to rest the damaged area to allow healing etc etc. Having said all that I would probably expect to be seeing an improvement of some sort at 17 days in, although full healing can take up to a couple of months.

Out of interest what is it that makes your vet now think it is not disc related? Has he/she carried out any further tests?

Clumbers and bassets are the two breeds I've come across with disc problems. Have you tried contacting any of the long-term Clumber breeders for advice/suggestions - on the how to cope with continued rest side of things ?

 

[Snuffles]

Vet done various reflex tests and generally examined him and I think he is basing it mainly on his experience and how dog has responded to medication! Just started reducing meds today, if he isn't showing improvement then I think I will go for MRI when the mobile unit is in the area on the 26th of the month. Must visit the loan arranger if this is the case ! Actually good idea to try and contact Clumber breeder !

 

[Snuffles]

Back to vets for follow up, vet thinks it is definitely spinal but not a disk . Do dogs get "kissing spines" like horses ? Spose there's no reason why not. Not totally out of the woods as very occasional pain so on metacam for the foreseeable future(sigh)
This dog is a disaster zone, just come in from his walk with fleas all over his bonce ! I do love him really.