Thinking ahead- kissing spines

scats

scats

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I take the hooligan in tomorrow for x-rays, as I suspect he has kissing spines.

Does kissing spines cause pain to a horse in an everyday sense or generally just under saddle/being ridden or lunged? Would a horse with kissing spines be comfortable retired and out in the field? Or would it still need some form of treatment to stay comfortable?
 
i have had two with kissing spine, one had the injections and once he is kept in correct work and muscled up he is absolutely fine. He only had two spines pressing.

The other was an exracer with 4 spines impinging. he got the injections and was ok if turned out 24/7 and kept in the right work. Then he seemed to go downhill and developed si issues and sciatica. Sometimes he would kind of drag a back leg across the field and wasn;t happy cantering at all, so i made the decision to put to sleep.

So it varies a lot from each horse, i've had good and bad outcomes
 
scats said:
Is anyone here a kissing spines expert who I can send some X-ray images to? We have decided to retire him based on the findings today.
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Your vet should sort this if it's necessary .
But it's a fairly straight forward condition .
I do think KS can give them discomfort all the time .
but like all dengenerative conditions it varies from horse to horse.
 
scats said:
Is anyone here a kissing spines expert who I can send some X-ray images to? We have decided to retire him based on the findings today.
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I don't think there are any orthopaedic vets on here. Has your vet not given you all the info you need?
 
Basically, he has four extremely close spines that show area of damaged bone at points that they are closest, indicating the possibility that some touching is occurring. Vet confident that horse is ok at rest and in field but said he can't rule out the possibility that these may touch at times under saddle. This would explain why we get these random explosive things after spooks or seemingly quite out of nowhere. He said there is likely a lot of muscle involvement too, so that may then push them closer.

I was curious really as he said he wouldn't class them as kissing, just extremely close and I wondered if kissing spines is only classed as that if they permanently touch. Having done a fair bit of research over the last few weeks, yesterday's X-rays look very similar to some that are classed as kissing spines.

It doesn't make a difference to me, the horse is being retired regardless. I feel I got my explanation as to his random behaviour and tension yesterday and I was assured he doesn't require treatment to stay comfortable in the field. Vet did suggest that if we were going to return him to work, he would advise the summer off and then Pessoa-ing to retrain the horse to use himself in a way that is least likely to make these spines touch.

In positive news though- after 2 years of no travelling, he loaded and travelled like a pro and same coming home!
 
scats said:
Basically, he has four extremely close spines that show area of damaged bone at points that they are closest, indicating the possibility that some touching is occurring. Vet confident that horse is ok at rest and in field but said he can't rule out the possibility that these may touch at times under saddle. This would explain why we get these random explosive things after spooks or seemingly quite out of nowhere. He said there is likely a lot of muscle involvement too, so that may then push them closer.

I was curious really as he said he wouldn't class them as kissing, just extremely close and I wondered if kissing spines is only classed as that if they permanently touch. Having done a fair bit of research over the last few weeks, yesterday's X-rays look very similar to some that are classed as kissing spines.

It doesn't make a difference to me, the horse is being retired regardless. I feel I got my explanation as to his random behaviour and tension yesterday and I was assured he doesn't require treatment to stay comfortable in the field. Vet did suggest that if we were going to return him to work, he would advise the summer off and then Pessoa-ing to retrain the horse to use himself in a way that is least likely to make these spines touch.

In positive news though- after 2 years of no travelling, he loaded and travelled like a pro and same coming home!
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I am sorry to hear this - although I got the impression you were expecting it, so maybe having an answer is a relief.
 
Sorry to hear about your horse scats..Apologies for jumping on the post - I am not a KS expert but have a question - would KS show up on a bone scan? I know that's typically where they start and then go to xrays but is there any way it couldn't show up on a bone scan? I suspect KS for my horse but bone scan was clear so just wondering whether it was worth getting x rays done anyway..
 
emfen1305 said:
Sorry to hear about your horse scats..Apologies for jumping on the post - I am not a KS expert but have a question - would KS show up on a bone scan? I know that's typically where they start and then go to xrays but is there any way it couldn't show up on a bone scan? I suspect KS for my horse but bone scan was clear so just wondering whether it was worth getting x rays done anyway..
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Afaik a bone scan can show up hot spots, but not always. The only definitive way to diagnose is by x-ray.
 
Thanks SEL. For me it explained a lot. The vet was very much saying that he's seen much worse in horses who have had no reaction at all, so was perhaps not sure how much discomfort he felt my boy was in, but I know my horse, he's a drama queen and does not handle pain well so on seeing the X-ray there was no doubt in my mind that that's been a big part of it. It will also explain why we were told on buying him that he is very cold backed and will explode if anyone mounts from the ground (we took a chance as he was so nice under saddle back then).

I can put the pics up on here if anyone is interested.

emfen1305- I assume hot spot areas would show on a bone scan that might give you an indication of where there are issues, and then an X-ray could help confirm it.
Basically I had originally called the vet out about my horses toe dragging and then some even more uncharacteristic behaviour prompted me to ask them to back x-ray him. I had to push for it though, they very much wanted to just get the hocks injected and even on arriving at the hospital where he was booked for x-ray, they tried to talk me out of it, which I wasn't happy about if I'm honest.

Anyway, I opted not to inject the hocks at this stage due to lami and steroid risk (however small, lami would seriously mean the end for this horse). The vet said he was about 1/10th lame in the right hind, so I didn't feel it was necessary at this stage for a field ornament.
 
[/QUOTE]emfen1305- I assume hot spot areas would show on a bone scan that might give you an indication of where there are issues, and then an X-ray could help confirm it.
Basically I had originally called the vet out about my horses toe dragging and then some even more uncharacteristic behaviour prompted me to ask them to back x-ray him. I had to push for it though, they very much wanted to just get the hocks injected and even on arriving at the hospital where he was booked for x-ray, they tried to talk me out of it, which I wasn't happy about if I'm honest.

Anyway, I opted not to inject the hocks at this stage due to lami and steroid risk (however small, lami would seriously mean the end for this horse). The vet said he was about 1/10th lame in the right hind, so I didn't feel it was necessary at this stage for a field ornament.[/QUOTE]

I would have thought the same however prior to the bone scan he had been out of any consistent work for 4 months so I am wondering whether there wasn't as much pain/heat and therefore not shown up though having said this his hock arthritis was very mild yet that still showed up so I would suspect KS would at least show something. 50% of me thinks its a bit behavioural as clinically speaking he is not lame, he tracks up fine, can canter on both reins on the right leg and maintain and will hack out for days but the other 50% thinks there could be an issue, the thermal imaging showed a fair amount of heat on his spine, he can sometimes be girthy to tack up and occasionally does this strange tensed up bunny hop when i get on but maybe only 1/10 times and he struggles to maintain contact and really work round, he basically does everything in his power to evade the contact. I've had everything checked that I can so only option now is back for further xrays but have already spent £1000s so weighing it up.. Sorry to go on, this isn't about me but just nice to speak to people that have gone through it, even my vet is starting to think i am simply looking for issues with him as does everyone else on my yard!
 
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