This little rant from Sat needs a post of its own :( Bad hack

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Ladylina83

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I just posted this as a reply to someone elses thread - but have realised this wouldn't help her at all and it's me that needs help ! I am actaully thinking about selling her ... but no one would want her :-( Feeling very sorry for myself

Quote:
Originally Posted by sitch
And yes, getting off and leading has it's place, some people think your giving in to the horse playing up, your not, he's still goign forward, he's still working, but your putting both of you in a safer way then if you were still on in a dangerous spot.

I did this with my COW of a mare on Sunday and I ended up walking for nearly 4 miles - we were on a circular route and no way was I turning her back on her self while I was on foot ! ! I just can not get her to go away from home some days on foot - this is a route she has done many times before both with other horses and on her own on a good day but Saturday you would have thought I was leading her to the dragons den !!

It started 2 mins into the hack jsut after we crossed the busy road ! It is like she knows that if I play up here it will really scare you as all these trucks seem to be going at least 60 mph past us. I tried waiting so she tried dancing spinning and backing up. I got off and walked her down the lane all the time worried that if she wanted to she could get away from me and just dash out across the road once we were 5 mins further down the track and past a gate I tried to get on as I got my foot in the stirrup she would spin so I'd start again ! I admit I lost my rag a little and she she got a clout round the arse with my stick. finally managed to get on board and she spun round rearing dancing panicing and tried to buck me off - all the time I am still worried about her getting me off and running for that road.

so I jump off again and walk further

I finnally managed to get back on when we are 20 mins from home and she pranced like a Lima the whole way home dispite me trying leg yield half holts loose rein etc

I actually feel like selling her today, my shoulders are absolutely killing me where she tried pulling away from me . I've had her 10 years but I can't be doing with all this messing about these days - or perhaps send her away, really gutted as I had been enjoying her recently.

All teeth back etc checked and she was wearing a standing martingale- it's just her head that needs looking at :-(

It's just made me think - what happened to the horse's in the olden days when horses were used for plesure who wouldn't go away from home ! If we have so many problems with our "Pleasure" horses surely they had woes too
 
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Firstly IMHO your horse is only still working when you get off and walk if you make him walk out properly. It's rare that people do this, they normally slop along.

In your case, have you tried working her good and hard on the lunge before you set out? She is going to feel far less like being a twit if she's already pretty well tired, if you can get her into a habit of not being a twit you can lessen the lunging first. I'm talking about a good 20 minutes, after warming up, mainly at canter.

Once you have crossed the main road I'm guessing you are wanting her to walk or trot nicely and she gets whizzy? So don't ask for plain walk or trot, get her to leg yield in trot to the centre of the road and back again, keep her on a steep angle so she's got to think about where her feet are, make her do shoulder in, quarters in, anything that keeps her thinking and guessing.

Clouting a horse when you are trying to get on is counter productive, it makes getting on harder and upsets the horse so that once you are on it's worse than it was before, then you get off and the horse has learnt a valuable lesson, and not one that is making life easier for you. If you can't get on from the ground then try dropping your stirrup about ten holes and then getting on from the ground, if you're worried about her back next time do it from the other side. Then at least you don't have to try and position her by the gate.
 
jendie said:
Sounds a bit like my mare :))

Could she be in season? That always makes mine 10 x worse than normal.
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No I had a lesson on her 2 weeks ago and she was in season then - she could be at some part of her cycle, well she is obviously sorry, that sounded daft ! - oddly she is actually better behaved when in season than when she is not :-(

I'm really fed up - she has bred me a fab little yearling who is so so trainable - I'd just like to be able to go round the block with out either one of use being in danger

I am going to hunt her this weekend although after sats antics I am now a little bit worried about it as she felt a little like a time bomb. If she goes well I might try and find her a hunting home for the winter as she is now fit and did know her job on the field before i decided to breed from her. I don't like the idea of selling her but could cope with her going and working through the winter then coming back to me as and when needed.

It is so upsetting as she can be so fantasticly behaved and most people comment on have loving she is and un flappable - I've let a 4 year old lead her round the yard and she's like a granny (obviously no one can see her act up when we are out on our own)
 
jemima_too said:
Firstly IMHO your horse is only still working when you get off and walk if you make him walk out properly. It's rare that people do this, they normally slop along.

In your case, have you tried working her good and hard on the lunge before you set out? She is going to feel far less like being a twit if she's already pretty well tired, if you can get her into a habit of not being a twit you can lessen the lunging first. I'm talking about a good 20 minutes, after warming up, mainly at canter.

Once you have crossed the main road I'm guessing you are wanting her to walk or trot nicely and she gets whizzy? So don't ask for plain walk or trot, get her to leg yield in trot to the centre of the road and back again, keep her on a steep angle so she's got to think about where her feet are, make her do shoulder in, quarters in, anything that keeps her thinking and guessing.

Clouting a horse when you are trying to get on is counter productive, it makes getting on harder and upsets the horse so that once you are on it's worse than it was before, then you get off and the horse has learnt a valuable lesson, and not one that is making life easier for you. If you can't get on from the ground then try dropping your stirrup about ten holes and then getting on from the ground, if you're worried about her back next time do it from the other side. Then at least you don't have to try and position her by the gate.
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Hiya - thanks for you reply

I'll start from the bottom, I'm lucky shes only 15.2 and I'm 5ft9 so I have no probs getting on from the floor (pony club leap) I can also do it when she is mid spin for home or trotting off, which was the case on sat. there was no chance of her standing still

I knew at the time that the clout was not going to solve a thing and I should have had more patience. It is very very rare that I him my horses and I'm not proud of it.

Once we have crossed the road I would like her to walk forward - I don't care actually what pace it would be as long as it is one foot in front of the other and not back wards sideways or upwards which is all that is on offer. In my mind Whizzy would be the jog I get on the way home. She knows I am there but will do nothing I ask and is most focused on getting me onto the floor otherwise leg yield etc would be a very good option but I am quite sure for all/most of these you need some forward momentum. For years I have used the spininig in tight circles until we face the right direction then kicking on but teetering on the curb of an A road in the face of an oncoming Eddie Stobbart this didn't do the trick, I imagine I lacked conviction in my instruction as it was a bit scary.

Lunging is an option and one I might well try tonight - on this occasion I was on a tight time allowance so I just wanted to jump on and get on with it as we were going to a wedding.....

Which leads me to pace ! OH we walked fast alright :-) I am pretty fit and had on a long sleeved T shirt and a l/w kagool and I was dripping wet when we got back ,a couple of times she broke into trot to keep up with me !! I had a hair apointment and and a wedding to get to and a 4 mile walk to do before hand !! a couple of times she broke into trot to keep up and she also did some prancing / jogging at my side - how I would have loved a slop along lol but I was determined we were going to do the route I set out to do - but in actual fact we did a longer route than planned as I got us a bit lost ( things look different from the floor)
 
Ladylina83 said:
Hiya - thanks for you reply

I'll start from the bottom, I'm lucky shes only 15.2 and I'm 5ft9 so I have no probs getting on from the floor (pony club leap) I can also do it when she is mid spin for home or trotting off, which was the case on sat. there was no chance of her standing still

I knew at the time that the clout was not going to solve a thing and I should have had more patience. It is very very rare that I him my horses and I'm not proud of it.

Once we have crossed the road I would like her to walk forward - I don't care actually what pace it would be as long as it is one foot in front of the other and not back wards sideways or upwards which is all that is on offer. In my mind Whizzy would be the jog I get on the way home. She knows I am there but will do nothing I ask and is most focused on getting me onto the floor otherwise leg yield etc would be a very good option but I am quite sure for all/most of these you need some forward momentum. For years I have used the spininig in tight circles until we face the right direction then kicking on but teetering on the curb of an A road in the face of an oncoming Eddie Stobbart this didn't do the trick, I imagine I lacked conviction in my instruction as it was a bit scary.

Lunging is an option and one I might well try tonight - on this occasion I was on a tight time allowance so I just wanted to jump on and get on with it as we were going to a wedding.....

Which leads me to pace ! OH we walked fast alright :-) I am pretty fit and had on a long sleeved T shirt and a l/w kagool and I was dripping wet when we got back ,a couple of times she broke into trot to keep up with me !! I had a hair apointment and and a wedding to get to and a 4 mile walk to do before hand !! a couple of times she broke into trot to keep up and she also did some prancing / jogging at my side - how I would have loved a slop along lol but I was determined we were going to do the route I set out to do - but in actual fact we did a longer route than planned as I got us a bit lost ( things look different from the floor)
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OK so relatively you're big and she's little, I was imagining 17.2 of horse taking the mickey out of 5 foot nothing of you. Yes, you need forward momentum for leg yield. I hadn't realised she just won't go at all. What are the chances of getting out first thing as soon as it is light when there will be less traffic, and having an argument with her in (relative) safety?

Alternatively if you get her lunging and she's sensible doing it, get her lunging with two reins and then long reining. Then park a couple of lunge reins and a whip on the other side of the road and if she's being a cowbag long rein her because you have better control if she does turn back to run across the road and you can keep her moving round you. If you have to go all the way round on the long reins you are making her move forwards away from you the whole time so it is doing something to reinforce her subordination to you and her trust in your direction of her.

I find it helps to imagine the huge pile of burgers that could be made from the damned animal!

Incidentally, if she offers reverse gear, what happens if you turn her round and force her to reverse? I did have one that would regularly refuse to walk forwards and would be made to do the length of the track to my field in reverse, some 200 yards.
 
I would have got off to, after all who cares what anyone thinks? You guys are both safe.

If it was pathetic me, I would try and set up situations at home first, so you both understand that this is all achievable.

Very few people practice just standing when riding, while keeping the horses 100% attention on you. If it was me I would take the horse out for a short ride and randomly ask it to stand for - as long as you can be bothered - and then ask friends to do progressively more frightening things while your horse just stands (ride bicycles, motor bikes, open umberellas, anything you can think of!) Essentially just bompproof it at home before going out! The horse should keep its attention of you regardless of what is happening?

With regard to the napping, next time you school, ride the horse straight past the stables - I bet she tries to nap, and then go and school again, it just takes away their confidence in the success of that trick.

Anyway, good luck, I am sure with your undoubted tenacity you will solve this!!
 
I think she has finally broken me on this one after all these years !

See the thing is I think if she was 17.2 and taking the pee then I don't think I would let her get away with it - I would ride her differently I just feel like somehow I ride her differently because she is mine. Also her size makes her very sharp quick and nippy. I always feel like with a big horse it takes a long time for the signal to get from the brain to the foot -long enough for you to consider what to do about it but not with lady L

Also she is pretty bombproof - shes not afraid of the trucks I am. What worries me is her flight instinct. It is like she knows what will have dramatic effect ie reversing into trees to rear knowing I will worry about banging my head or backing up in a field when riding to a ditch. I make her sound unrideable but she isn't, it really is just a case of I DO NOT WANT TO DO THIS. I get a little warning and then if I persist to ask I get the full on paddy. Otherdays everything is rosy :-(

ETA - Ah yes the time, I am not sure what time we went out I think it was just before 8am as I arrived at 7.30and return from riding at 09.20 so will try earlier in the morning while we still have some light.

Thanks

Flicking through other posts on this matter I had previosly tried the reverse approach before but this just sends her skyward. If all else fails she does a spectacular HiHo Silver impresion - perhaps I could loan her to the circus ?? on to try before the burgers lol

I think I need some help :-( I want to cry
 
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Dont think i can really offer you any more advice but i can say i would have got off aswell!!! I live on a Fenland drove road its very quiet but has 10 foot dykes on both sides and they are real rider scarers my silly mare picked up on this and took to spinning to nap then reversing when i prevented her going sideways!!! This i think was because she had been turned out with the same mare for a while and they got far to clicky and did not want to be parted!Once away from home she got on with the job but trying to get her out the gate was enough to put me off as like your mare she was very quick and stubbon, leaping/spinning/bucking/reversing at 100 miles a hour. Maybe it is a mare thing but i do love the spirit most of the time! She was very sadly PTS last month following an accident whilst in the field - I miss her so much dispite her quirky nature, try and be positive sounds like you are doing very well with her alot of people would have given up by now! :)
 
If you read Mark Rashid books he has an answer to this. When the horse naps take it home and work it hard there, then ride calmly away. Set aside some time to deal with this. Even if you need to do some shorter rides for a while, set it up so that you can do this, and however short the subsequent ride is, return when it's your idea. A good friend of mine persisted with this calmly for a couple of weeks and now he has the best hacking horse in the world. Never naps, never races for home, just sets out purposefully and does his job.
Re getting off, I have no problem with it, but I know that really upsets some people. The argument for not getting off seems to be about control, and not having so much control on the ground. I ride with a rope halter and 12ft line under my bridle when I'm hacking out, my horses have very good groundwork in place, and I have no concerns about having less control if I get off. I help or work the horse beyond the bad place (depending on the situation, there's no point going after a horse that is scared, you need to help them deal with the situation and accept it), then when they relax, I get back on. I don't often have people to ride with, so this is how I've got my green pony hacking out alone. We started off walking in hand. Then I started to get on when the time felt right. Get off if she needed a bit of support then back on again. We're at the stage now where she's pretty confident and I don't have to get off much at all, so it can work very well.
 
Sounds similar to my boy, he starts off fine for a week or more when I bring him back in to work but he gets in a tizzy within a few weeks, which turns to nappiness and then he is beyond reason, currently he has decided he will not exit from the manege!..... I had to back him up to get him out.
I have lost my nerve a bit, so I am not persisting with him long enough, obviously this is the problem, he usually behaves normally when someone else is around [knowing they will lead him/away from danger], so no one believes me!
He will behave normally when ridden by a child, or when a good rider rides him, but at the moment I don't know how to deal with it, we had this two years ago and got over it, but it has re-appeared, and I am fed up!
He gets magnesium calmer and as far as possible he is on fibre based diet.
 
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