Thoroughbred badly napping at shows - would calmer help?

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est-1978

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Happy Monday All

Just wondering if anyone has had success with instant calmers helping napping at shows.

I have an 11 year old TB gelding who has jumped up to Newcomers with previous owner, I've had him for just over a year and he was absolutely perfect until spring time. We were winning loads at local shows, he would jump anything and gave me lots of confidence that was lost with my previous mare. He would happily jump anywhere, indoors and outdoors and never even looked at a filler. He could have the odd small nap at outdoor shows but nothing a firm nudge in the right direction couldn't sort - and NEVER napped in the ring.

This spring he became quite nappy at sponsored rides and warm up arenas and it coincided with being turned out overnight (which he never was in his old home) and also me taking him XC schooling on his own which triggered a few massive nap attacks and then refusing simple logs and cross poles. Literally from then on he started misbehaving at every show and not leaving the warm up, napping, rearing, forcing his way back to the exit of the ring, not jumping anything going away from the gate and would just rear until he was at the gate and would have to be led away but would not jump anything at all as by this point he was so wound up and sweaty and had lost his mind in his own drama.

This has escalated to now not being able to get round a 1ft 6 clear round course without rearing and napping to the gate and will refuse a filler and use this as an excuse to then go into full tantrum, nappy mode until we have to be led out of the ring for our own safety.

I have recently (2 days ago) put him on the Global Herbs TB calmer to see if that chills him out a bit as is incredibly spooky at home in the arena (again a new thing since spring) but wondered if giving him an instant calmer before a show would enable me to deal with the napping without him absolutely losing his mind as there is no negotiation when he goes into one.

Saddle checked recently, regular back checks, vet came out recently to check over and teeth fine.

Part of it is he was in a competition environment previously and now his yard is much more laid back and I dont ride him as much as the previous owners but he was fine with this set up until May this year. I put him on brewers yeast and magnesium but neither seemed to do much.

Any advice on napping or successful calmers most appreciated :) He is such a good horse when he is on form so not giving up on him but deffo need some hep to get back to where we were....
 
Not for TBs but I've used the NAF Five Star instant calmer on my old Welsh C x Arab and it worked really well. He used to go absolutely mental at shows when I first got him; he'd try and jump off the lorry, spook at everything and anything, bolt at full pelt gallop towards the gate when we were in the warm up or arena etc. He improved immensely but for the first 6-9 months, the calmer was a godsend.
 
Being totally honest, unless he has a deficiency or something then I don't really think company legal calmers work other than as a placebo for the rider.

He is not happy about something. Horses don't just suddenly change to horrific behaviour like this for fun. Mine starts napping/bucking/refusing fences when something is wrong - he needs the Physio, his saddle isn't right, his teeth are due, he doesn't like his bit... And I am a firm believer that sudden behaviour changes are triggered by something.

If the routine change is what has done it - change it back. Tbs especially IMO can get very upset about routine changes and this could be a very big deal for him. I'd also look at getting a Physio check, saddle, teeth checked, and if nothing comes up then TBH a vet to take a look too.
 
I think it's the routine change - my horse is unbelievably 'herdy' when he's out a lot - you used to be able to just see our fields from the arena, but since we has some landscaping done, he has a great view of all his friends out in their fields! When it was first done he became really nappy, rearing etc when asked to go past the gate. I basically had to just sit it out and make him go forwards by being really tough and spinning him when he tried to go up and then really kicking on around the arena for a couple of weeks and he's a lot better now. I sometimes have to do a less extreme version at shows if he 'leans' on the horses in the collecting ring. Check he's Ok physically - might be worth getting the vet to give him the once over for hocks etc and then I'm afraid you have to go onto zero tolerance of the nappy behaviour - you might have to hire arenas a few times if he only does it away from home, and try and do it at a time when you can go three or four days in a row. If you are finding it too hairy (and I wasn't very far from this point) you might have to get someone on him who can sit him out.
 
khalswitz said:
Being totally honest, unless he has a deficiency or something then I don't really think company legal calmers work other than as a placebo for the rider.

He is not happy about something. Horses don't just suddenly change to horrific behaviour like this for fun. Mine starts napping/bucking/refusing fences when something is wrong - he needs the Physio, his saddle isn't right, his teeth are due, he doesn't like his bit... And I am a firm believer that sudden behaviour changes are triggered by something.

If the routine change is what has done it - change it back. Tbs especially IMO can get very upset about routine changes and this could be a very big deal for him. I'd also look at getting a Physio check, saddle, teeth checked, and if nothing comes up then TBH a vet to take a look too.
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This is what I would think as well. He has been a good competition horse up to now, so if things have progressed to not even wanting to jump a small cross pole he is trying to tell you something. By all means try and go back to his normal routine but I would guess that there is a physical reason somewhere, even if it is not obvious.

I had two different vets look at my horse for "performance" issues, neither of whom found anything wrong. An old experienced physio found something on examination.

It can be a long and frustrating road, but you know your horse is not happy with something and he is telling you the only way he can.
 
thanks for replies. everything has been checked and vet out for once over - inconclusive and the behaviour is inconsistent and usually involves other horses nearby or him having to go somewhere alone (although fine hacking alone weirdly). Vet said could check for ulcers as he is ex racer and quite girthy but weird that he changed at the same time his routine changed.

I think its a confidence thing since the XC schooling on his own as was literally a change overnight from winning SJ classes to huge nap attacks XC and then the napping progressed to the SJ ring. I took him to a clinic last week and he was perfect in the SJ section and then was asked to leave the others to go down some steps and it all started :( it seems to be anything he isn't 100% sure about now results in this extreme behaviour and unfortunately his confidence in the SJ ring is also at a low and he just heads for the gate and gets himself so wound up and upset that there is no calm negotiation. I say calm but firm but I think as he has got away with it a few times he now knows we go home if he misbehaves. My instructor rode him and had a bit of a show down and got him going forwards so think he may need stronger rider to take him out and about and get his confidence back.
 
est-1978 said:
thanks for replies. everything has been checked and vet out for once over - inconclusive and the behaviour is inconsistent and usually involves other horses nearby or him having to go somewhere alone (although fine hacking alone weirdly). Vet said could check for ulcers as he is ex racer and quite girthy but weird that he changed at the same time his routine changed.

I think its a confidence thing since the XC schooling on his own as was literally a change overnight from winning SJ classes to huge nap attacks XC and then the napping progressed to the SJ ring. I took him to a clinic last week and he was perfect in the SJ section and then was asked to leave the others to go down some steps and it all started :( it seems to be anything he isn't 100% sure about now results in this extreme behaviour and unfortunately his confidence in the SJ ring is also at a low and he just heads for the gate and gets himself so wound up and upset that there is no calm negotiation. I say calm but firm but I think as he has got away with it a few times he now knows we go home if he misbehaves. My instructor rode him and had a bit of a show down and got him going forwards so think he may need stronger rider to take him out and about and get his confidence back.
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Mine did exactly this (but also bucking) when he had some nerve firing in his back. I had the same reaction as you, that I'd had everything checked and he was fine - he wasn't. Only better professionals found that out for me, and cost me my right hip in a horrible accident before that!

An overnight dramatic change due to confidence when previously was jumping Newcomers successfully seems a little thin to me personally.
 
est-1978 said:
thanks for replies. everything has been checked and vet out for once over - inconclusive and the behaviour is inconsistent and usually involves other horses nearby or him having to go somewhere alone (although fine hacking alone weirdly). Vet said could check for ulcers as he is ex racer and quite girthy but weird that he changed at the same time his routine changed.
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What do you mean by everything has been checked? Just the standard saddle, teeth and physio visit?

I had an ex-racer whom a mctimoney and chiro/oesto couldnt find anything wrong with. The physio however was a totally different matter... found plenty wrong. (Thats not to question the quality of the mictiminey and osteo people, they ones I use are the best in the area, just a different "technique" thats all).

Also getting the above checked is not "getting everything done". Neither is getting the vet out for a look. Getting everything checked to me is getting the horse into the vet for a good lameness work up, which is what I suggest you try.
 
had he done much xc before. I have one who is mentally very odd. We just cannot mixtypes of competiton, or he just loses it completely. He seems to get locked into a repetitive behaviour- for him he relaxes once he sees a dressage judges car, the white boards, knowing his tests. And he is confident and relaxed. If i tried to take him round a cross country course he would have a melt down. He has a tiny little mental bubble of comfort.

We also had a melt down when he changed from a larger busier yard to a smaller one. At the busier yard he was desensitised a lot more and used to the bustle. at the quieter one, every single thing that happened turned into a big deal and he was unhappy. Because it was so quiet, when something did happen it was the end of the world. The change to a turnout at night mightn't be suiting him either. Some horses are just ultra senstive and if they are not happy then its pure meltdown! I know it took me ages of changing routine to get my lad settled.

If you can't change back to his old lifestyle and routine then the stronger rider sounds like a good bet to get his confidence back. I'd be taking him over tiny, tiny courses till he gets his mojo back!
 
paddi22 said:
had he done much xc before. I have one who is mentally very odd. We just cannot mixtypes of competiton, or he just loses it completely. He seems to get locked into a repetitive behaviour- for him he relaxes once he sees a dressage judges car, the white boards, knowing his tests. And he is confident and relaxed. If i tried to take him round a cross country course he would have a melt down. He has a tiny little mental bubble of comfort.

We also had a melt down when he changed from a larger busier yard to a smaller one. At the busier yard he was desensitised a lot more and used to the bustle. at the quieter one, every single thing that happened turned into a big deal and he was unhappy. Because it was so quiet, when something did happen it was the end of the world. The change to a turnout at night mightn't be suiting him either. Some horses are just ultra senstive and if they are not happy then its pure meltdown! I know it took me ages of changing routine to get my lad settled.

If you can't change back to his old lifestyle and routine then the stronger rider sounds like a good bet to get his confidence back. I'd be taking him over tiny, tiny courses till he gets his mojo back!
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thank you for this - I think you are right - no he hadn't done much XC before, the odd schooling session once with a very strong rider but he was in a very very focused SJ home for a year or so and seemed to be fine in that environment of being worked hard in the same way a lot. It was such an extreme change when I took him XC on his own and his old owner said he didnt like steps very much and all this bad behaviour started at the steps on the course, he then just lost his mind and confidence and had a melt down. I did the XC as he was going SO well in the SJ and I wanted to give him a change of scene, but I think that totally messed his head up :/ All this combined with change of routine and he turned into nappy wotsit at all the shows and he will misbehave in home arena if other horses going in and out or in the school at the same time, again last year this was no problem.

I will get him checked for ulcers as incredibly girthy and want to rule out pain but I think it is a herd behaviour thing since losing his confidence out on the XC course.

I guess baby steps and just trying to get a handle on the napping….
 
From what you have described it sounds like there is an underlying pain issue.

Sometimes a horse will put up with something for so long then a new stressful situation can cause them to have a melt down, as they can no longer cope with the pain.
 
I would definitely have more than his 'back' checked. Get a recommendation for a really good Osteopath who can assess the horse as a whole - biomechancially! Everything is connected and there might be an issue somewhere else that is causing such an extreme reaction.

A friend of mine had a horse do the same & turned out to be an issue in the TMJ (temporomandibular joint mechanism) that vets, physios, dentists all missed it - it was only an extremely good Osteopath that noticed it. And once it was sorted - horse turned back to a pet! So it just goes to show that issues can be missed - horses cant tell us whats wrong, so you have to keep looking. You could try rule out a pain issue by giving them 2 bute, twice a day for 3 days & if it improves, you will know there is a pain issue somewhere... I know its alot of bute but its short term & it could help pinpoint a pain issue.

I would also recommend magnets - they can help especially around the poll area with reducing stress, worth a try!
 
I would have a full lameness work up done. had a horse that did that he spooked/napped because he was wired and looking for anything to get out doing what was asked. Called the vet after the second episode of bad behaviour and it was front feet. Not solvable but at least the behaviour did not get dangerous - it escalated the second time when I was advised to take him on about it , I was stupid enough to belt him a couple of times and he got worse, I immediatelt got off boxed him up and took him home. rang the vet straight away and am so glad that I did. he knew me well and brought his x ray gear with him and the results were a horror story. in my experience unless something has triggered the horse to lose all trust in you then the primary cause must be fear of pain. I am older now and have bought a few terrors in my time since, several rescued, and can say that have sorted them all out once the underlying issues were resolved. From the horse's point of view the pain is worse than the fear of getting into trouble ( even just the rider being forceful when he/she hasn't been before) and we must remember they can't tell us so have to act out in a way that gets our attention. That horse taught me a lot and remember it can be something very simple, check his full history people will often tell the truth if the horse is no longer theirs. if you can't find it then a thermal scan might help pinpoint it.
 
est-1978 said:
I think its a confidence thing since the XC schooling on his own as was literally a change overnight from winning SJ classes to huge nap attacks XC and then the napping progressed to the SJ ring. I took him to a clinic last week and he was perfect in the SJ section and then was asked to leave the others to go down some steps and it all started :( it seems to be anything he isn't 100% sure about now results in this extreme behaviour and unfortunately his confidence in the SJ ring is also at a low and he just heads for the gate and gets himself so wound up and upset that there is no calm negotiation. I stay calm but firm but I think as he has got away with it a few times he now knows we go home if he misbehaves.
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So which is it. Lack of confidence, or misbehaviour?
 
May be worth getting a second opinion on the saddle fit and back. One of mine who was always beautifully behaved began going weird (nappy and mini rears) and although one saddler said his saddle was fine, I got a different one out who said it didn't fit at all! A new saddle then made him straight back to normal again.
 
amymay said:
So which is it. Lack of confidence, or misbehaviour?
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No idea which is why I was looking for peoples experiences…


I think it maybe a behvaioural issue that has been born out of a loss of confidence.

Either way - I am ruling out pain first and foremost.
 
Don't rule out an underlying pain issue. It may be that there is a low level of pain which he always coped with by being in the same routine, going to the same places, doing the same things. When his routine changed, his 'comfort blanket' was taken away, and he can no longer handle the pain.

I would honestly go for a loss of performance work up where the vet will look at all angles, including ulcers but also looking at backs etc.

Good luck.
 
Also please don't dismiss that he's just thoroughly soured of the whole thing and wants a decent holiday or at least a break from jumping. Horses can get fed up with always being asked to do the same thing time after time. I'd personally give him a month off out in the field then bring him slowly back with lots of hacking only before you introduce jumping for him again and in that down time get him onto a decent ulcer supplement. People very often forget about the mental state in horses and how it affects them; it could be something as simple as you've introduced new routines that have upset his equilibrium, it doesn't necessarily mean there's something wrong physically with him.
 
Hi sorry to bump up this thread but it cropped up when I searched for something else & totally hit home!

You may already have answers but my mare was exactly the same!! Out of the blue just started napping for no reason (more so at shows) when previously would jump everything & anything! Had everything checked over & ulcers was the very last thing to check. Turned out she had 2 lots grade 2/3 :( she's been on treatment now for 3 months & although her performance hasn't returned 100% (almost there though), the napping has completely stopped & she is much more happy & settled. Mine had no other symptoms whatsoever, no girthiness, weight loads etc but I knew something wasn't right.

Hope you are close to answers & now back on my search! :) x
 
thank you for this! yes something just isn't right and the napping started at shows but now happens at home when jumping and when he has had enough of doing something, he isn't a nasty or naughty horse so really unusual, i've only had him a year so this is my first summer with him so could be change of routine, ulcers, back etc but he is regularly checked by chiro and saddler and the vet came out and did a lameness test - it was inconclusive but nothing came up and his bet was ulcers - so ulcers seems to be the thing I should get checked - he also bit me really hard this weekend when I was just sponging him off and he is proper grumpy. I thought ulcers were better in summer and he has overnight turnout so I may be barking up the wrong tree but worth testing. He is fine hacking out though - but maybe because he is relaxed and they dont flare up!

Glad your horse has improved - fingers crossed my boy goes back to his old self soon :)

tinap said:
Hi sorry to bump up this thread but it cropped up when I searched for something else & totally hit home!

You may already have answers but my mare was exactly the same!! Out of the blue just started napping for no reason (more so at shows) when previously would jump everything & anything! Had everything checked over & ulcers was the very last thing to check. Turned out she had 2 lots grade 2/3 :( she's been on treatment now for 3 months & although her performance hasn't returned 100% (almost there though), the napping has completely stopped & she is much more happy & settled. Mine had no other symptoms whatsoever, no girthiness, weight loads etc but I knew something wasn't right.

Hope you are close to answers & now back on my search! :) x
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little update - got my TB scoped this week and he has grade 3 ulcers. possibly old from racing days so maybe not the reason for sudden behaviour change but definitely could be a contributing factor to grumpiness and girthiness and hopefully after treatment he will feel better and start performing again. If not we will start looking down back/ leg routes but at least this gives us something to start treating. Just wish they could talk......
 
Hopefully that is the cause of it. Ulcers can flare up so it may be that with the routine of his last home they were manged and then they have gotten worse since his routine, home and people have changed.
My horse raced once as a 3 year old, he never showed ulcer habits with me in England other than being a bit chewy and tail swishy.
I flew him to America and he steadily got more and more spooky to ride and was horrid to jump. He never napped but he would start off fine and then for no reason he would suddenly rush his jump, buck and take off across the arena. He was really 'crabby', lazy but spooky and then suddenly sharp and naughty and then dead to the leg and backwards again.
Turns out the travel and change had aggravated ulcers. He was really not himself. I put him on a course of ulcer meds and a really decent gut supplement and he was his normal lovely, easy self again.
I keep him on the gut supplement now and if he has any changes (new stable, field, turnout time, travelling, shows) I put him on ulcer guard and he's an absolute pleasure at home and at shows.
Once you have the ulcer situation under control I would keep in as good a routine as you can.
He sounds a lovely horse and it's great you are giving him the benefit of doubt. Good horses don't go from hero to zero without there being a very good reason. I also don't think it's lack of confidence, at 11 years old and an experienced decent showjumper he should be established enough to cope with all you want to do from a confidence point of view (as long as your riding is Ok obviously).
I think it's all the changes flared up the ulcers and they affected him the most when put under pressure like jumping, shows, the excitement of XC ect.
 
I hope you have got the answer.

However, suddenly refusing jumping and napping when asked to jump can also be a sign of Proximal Suspensory Desmitis. Basically speaking this is chronic inflammation of the suspensory ligament at the origin. It is very hard to diagnose as horses can present as sound (as they can be bilaterally lame), and due to the position of the ligament in this position there usually will be no swelling or heat either. Its only really diagnosed by nerve blocks or ultrasound, and can be a devastating injury - the first indication is usually a horse who has previously been very willing starts to refuse at jumps, and naps etc.

Its really worth ruling out this cause. Good luck.
 
Smurf's Gran said:
I hope you have got the answer.

However, suddenly refusing jumping and napping when asked to jump can also be a sign of Proximal Suspensory Desmitis. Basically speaking this is chronic inflammation of the suspensory ligament at the origin. It is very hard to diagnose as horses can present as sound (as they can be bilaterally lame), and due to the position of the ligament in this position there usually will be no swelling or heat either. Its only really diagnosed by nerve blocks or ultrasound, and can be a devastating injury - the first indication is usually a horse who has previously been very willing starts to refuse at jumps, and naps etc.

Its really worth ruling out this cause. Good luck.
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Sorry forgot to say when it presents in this way its a hind limb problem, and can masquerade as being a back, saddle or sacroiliac issue
 
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