Those horses that haven't suffered enough...

[muffinino]

will they be returned to Gray?

Just put this point on the end of the Latest News big post, but wanted to know other people's views/experience. As far as I can tell, there is a distinct possibility that those horses that are deemed not to have suffered to the point of cruelty will be returned to the scumbag.

Only if unnecessary suffering can be proved, and it has to be proved for each individual horse for them to be taken off him, will the courts remove ownership. There are some horses that are in a poor condition and were in circumstances that none of us would consider at all acceptable, but physically are not so bad as to 'justify' removal of ownership.

There is a precedent to this, the case of the witch in Surrey (can't remember her name but I think the case was early last year) that had horses starving in a bare field next to fields of lush grass and hundreds of bales of hay. One pregnant mare had to be shot on site as she was too weak to stand.

I think two of the ones that were removed were eventually taken out of her ownership but others had to be returned as they were not in as bad a condition (but still extremely poor) when they were removed, if that makes sense.

Maybe an exception will be made as this is such an extreme caase but I worry that this will not happen. Having said that (this point was raised by native in Latest News) will he have the passports to prove ownership? Don't make me laugh!

 

[AmyMay]

You make a really valid point H.

This cannot happen - What can we do??????

 

[jacks_mum]

Are the Passport agencies investigating him yet? If not, why not? Has/can anyone contact them to find out what they are doing? It's got to be another avenue to try to stop them being returned to him

 

[dianchi]

Isnt it more likely that due to the other animals he would be banned from keeping horse and therefore would have to hand over the other horses?

 

[jacks_mum]

surely it is best to cover all bases and not just rely on the laws and out dated judges that let us down so frequently. Besides which I would have thought the passport agencies would be interested as they also have a chance to put him away and levy a considerable fine if he has no passports

 

[wizzi901]

I know exactly which bitch you mean....delia stacey, I went ot school with her, she had lost he plot then, not a clue on horses, lazy and also has a child.....she kept her horses briefly at cullinghood and we had problems with her then.

http://www.ilph.org/ukoperations_details.asp?id=630

Very odd setup, but very suprised her child is still with her...I shall say no more.

 

[muffinino]

I'm not sure what would happen if he was banned. If he owned them before that, they would still be his property. A further order would have to made to remove them, I suppose.

Just thought of something else - as odd as it sounds, I hope soome of them were stolen and are able to be identified by their owners&returned. At least that way they will go to good homes and the owners will be able (hopefully) to get theft charges brought against him. Or at least handling stolen goods! But probably not, there'll probably be some loophole such as him buying them from an auction means he had no way of knowing. I wonder if there are stolen horses this will highlight the loopholes in passport legislation when it comes to auctions & sales.

 

[alicedove]

I think there were a couple (that chestnut with flaxen mane) that came off a lorry looking weak but otherwise in good condition, which he must have come by very recently.

I think I spotted in another post or news story that he has stolen lots of them to make a few hundred for meat money. This will mean proper criminal charges.

Plus passporting offence,
criminal damage, assault, and I would imagine (as I was just saying to Ovidius, on the phone) that he is not having a very nice time wherever he is banged up , since nobody will be very nice to him will they.. hope they beat the crap out of him.

 

[Magicmillbrook]

Ultimately it will depend on who is the judge in this case. You can bet you bottom dollar that the RSPCA or ILPH (whoever takes the case) will go for a ban, perhaps even a lifetime ban. Problem is that this fellow may have friends or relatives who may take on the business and 'own the horses'. Then it could start all over again. The only positive thing (if there can be a positive) is that it brings the whole issue of animal welfare, lack of funding, horses for meat etc into the spot light.

 

[Magicmillbrook]

[ QUOTE ]
I think there were a couple (that chestnut with flaxen mane) that came off a lorry looking weak but otherwise in good condition, which he must have come by very recently.

I think I spotted in another post or news story that he has stolen lots of them to make a few hundred for meat money. This will mean proper criminal charges.

Plus passporting offence,
criminal damage, assault, and I would imagine (as I was just saying to Ovidius, on the phone) that he is not having a very nice time wherever he is banged up , since nobody will be very nice to him will they.. hope they beat the crap out of him.

[/ QUOTE ]

What goes around comes around....

 

[gloster_image]

Though of course he's not banged up at the mo!

What an awful thought that the animals could be returned - though I doubt they will as he will no doubt be banned from owning animals for a very long time and therefore all his animals will be taken off him

 

[lizzylulu]

[ QUOTE ]
Isnt it more likely that due to the other animals he would be banned from keeping horse and therefore would have to hand over the other horses?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would agree with you here, surely he will be banned for life for owning any animal after the suffering he has put the horses through.

But in this country you just never know!!??

 

[muffinino]

[ QUOTE ]
would agree with you here, surely he will be banned for life for owning any animal after the suffering he has put the horses through.

But in this country you just never know!!??


[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, that's what worries me. Common sense would lead you to think this but knowing the loops that exist and the way the system works I'm concerned that the logical equation of ban for life = the horses get taken away but I'm not sure it's this straightforward.

 

[jumpthemoon]

I can't believe DS got her horses back even though she was banned! What muppets come up with the laws in this country? If he gets any of those animals back it is a complete and utter atrocity! He should be banned from owning/caring for life, locked up for at least 5 years (realistically - I'd say DP but it's not going to happen) and never be allowed near another animal as long as he lives

 

[pottamus]

I am sure that there are plenty of people that know other people that can 'deal' with scum bags like him...that is what is needed and I am sure will happen given a bit of time when things have settled a bit.

 

[the watcher]

[ QUOTE ]
Are the Passport agencies investigating him yet? If not, why not? Has/can anyone contact them to find out what they are doing? It's got to be another avenue to try to stop them being returned to him

[/ QUOTE ]

In this case you CAN rest assured that every single avenue of investigation will be followed (and not just by the RSPCA)

 

[pinkcatkin]

I think that he should be put in an enclosure naked and with no food and gently starved to death, but then that is surely too good for him. I hope he rots in hell.

 

[Tharg]

I wonder how many of them could have been nicked.