those of you who share/ part loan?

[diggerbez]

what are you looking for or expecting to get as part of the deal (in an ideal world)? and how much do you think is reasonable to pay and for what?

 

[Tickles]

I was a sharer for some time.

I wanted to ride a horse I could build a proper relationship with and be more involved in the care of than say if riding a particular horse at a riding school regularly.

I wanted that without the full expense and long term financial commitment that owning my own would be (for me, I know I'd be terrible at selling/PTS a healthy but unridable/unsuitable for me to ride animal). And also without the long term commitment to a particular animal as my riding was changing (improving at least in places I hope!)

On the other hand I didn't expect to have control over decisions such as shoeing/feeding/which yard the horse was kept at/who he was turned out with etc, etc.

That worked well for a time as my owner was looking for someone to commit the time she couldn't. She later decided she wanted someone to pay effectively 'pro rata' which would have doubled the amount but wasn't something I could afford at the time, or, tbh would expect to have to afford without having some input into decisions about the horse.

In short: I expect less choice than owning for less money/responsibility.

 

[diggerbez]

thanks for your reply tickles...would you say that your situation was as a "sharer" wheras your owner really wanted a "part loan"? to me a sharer wants to be able to ride, do some jobs and make a contribution to costs whereas a part loan is more like "owning" the horse for part of the time- so should be paying on a pro rata basis for everything?

 

[CalllyH]

part loaning/sharing are bad words for it i think. I paid 80 quid a month for my last one for two gorgeous show horses and could ride as much as i wanted but bad weather and time over the winter and hurting my foot meant i didnt ride that much.

The one before that I was paying £20 a ride but had no jobs - just turned up rode and turned out. It wasnt just a 20 minute schooling session though it was 2/3 hour lovely hacks.

I would probably expect to pay a minimal amount if it meant you mucked out etc and put to bed and exercised on your own - more if you can just ride and not do anything else.

The last one i looked at wanted about 100 quid a month plus shoes. I am not prepared to pay someone elses livery costs - I would be prepared to contribute but not cover the full amount. A share shouldnt just be about money - it should be about fun, getting on with the person and knowing your horse is safe being looked after by the other person if you want to go away etc.

 

[diggerbez]

hi cally...thanks for your reply
this is the problem that i have really- i need to get someone to part loan my horse because i can't afford to pay for him on my own...i do want someone who is willing to make a decent contribution to costs and in return they have their "own" horse on the days they do- but where is the line between asking too much money? have had people say £25/ 30 a week is too much for say 4 days...but then if you went to a RS it would probably cost you that for an hour's lesson/ hack?

 

[Snowysadude]

have had people say £25/ 30 a week is too much for say 4 days...but then if you went to a RS it would probably cost you that for an hour's lesson/ hack?

I think it depends on where you are in the country. See at the moment I am in Watford near london and the going rate is £25 a week for two days, and a lot of people add on shoes as well - all have found sharers happy to pay. However when I was in Leics I found there were horses galore and sharing then was around £15 a week as the going rate for 2/3 days with both myself and a lot of other owners on yards locally to me! Again they all found sharers at that rate .

 

[diggerbez]

thanks...interesting that you've noticed that there is a difference around the country. i honestly (and sorry if i'm offending anyone here) think its a bit cheeky to expect to get full use of a horse for 3/4 days for less than £25/30 and a contribution to shoes!
don't get me wrong, if i was looking for a horse to loan and could find one for less money then i'd take it...but i don't think i'd dare ask someone to be able to loan for less...

by full use i mean doing whatever you want with the horse- long hacks, lessons, jumping, competing etc!

 

[CalllyH]

SS - I thought yours was cheap though at 15 quid - especially for your gorgeous boy (when not causing havoc lol)

I would say £80 a month is reasonable - you could always ask for half shoes on top of that if they need shoes making it £100 a month rather than weekly

Arnt you near nottingham DB?

 

[Burnttoast]

As far as costs are concerned, it depends on the area, the type of livery, if any, how many days, etc., but I don't think a sharer should ever be expected to pay, say, 50% of running costs simply on the basis of having the horse half the time because they have very limited autonomy. It's nothing like having a horse of your own, but equally it can't be directly compared to RS costs because there's no instruction involved.

 

[diggerbez]

am in lancashire
need to re-advertise my horse as been left in the lurch by the people who did have him on full loan and just want to get prices sorted in my head before i do it!
i've worked out that in terms of basic costs i have
livery- £42 p/w

shoes £80 every 5 weeks (he has special feet )- but if he was a 'normal' horse you'd be looking £60 every 6 weeks?

insurance -£20 a month

feed- who knows? i tend to buy as i need!

so if someone had 'part livery' i.e. 4 days a week- would it be reasonable to say £25 a week and then £30 towards shoes every 5 weeks?
ideally i'll find someone who wants full livery and then there is non of this complicated maths nonsense!

 

[diggerbez]

As far as costs are concerned, it depends on the area, the type of livery, if any, how many days, etc., but I don't think a sharer should ever be expected to pay, say, 50% of running costs simply on the basis of having the horse half the time because they have very limited autonomy. It's nothing like having a horse of your own, but equally it can't be directly compared to RS costs because there's no instruction involved.

i totally see your point murf...but could you not argue that its more like having your own horse than riding one in a RS- so you should be paying more for that privilege? i know that if i had the choice between a RS lesson near me 1x a week or part loaning a decent RC allrounder for a bit more money i would chose the latter.... (would be different if there was a very good RS nearby i guess! )

 

[CalllyH]

I still think thats too much - being a sharer is hard - the ride can be pulled from you at any time and you dont have that much atomony over what you do and sometimes treated like a groom.

 

[diggerbez]

I still think thats too much - being a sharer is hard - the ride can be pulled from you at any time and you dont have that much atomony over what you do and sometimes treated like a groom.

so you think more just £25 a week flat? god i should become a sharer rather than an owner
(not having a go at you cally at all...or any other sharers...totally understand your points made! its just bloody difficult being an owner... i don't think people appreciate how much it all costs sometimes )

 

[Burnttoast]

i totally see your point murf...but could you not argue that its more like having your own horse than riding one in a RS- so you should be paying more for that privilege? i know that if i had the choice between a RS lesson near me 1x a week or part loaning a decent RC allrounder for a bit more money i would chose the latter.... (would be different if there was a very good RS nearby i guess! )

Each to their own in this respect. I definitely wouldn't compare the two situations in emotional terms (ie like having one of your own) - a share's so lovely when you get attached to the horse and get to know it, but I speak from bitter experience (no doubt why I'm being so dogmatic about it!) - you have absolutely no say when the owner's situation changes. My last two shares ended when the owners respectively took the ride back on retiring their other horse and moved to a yard too far from me (taking my spurs with them in the latter case ). My current share is lovely as no money changes hands, but it's DIY and I help with all sorts of things to do with all 'my' owner's horses. I have very little spare cash but plenty of flexible time, and the former situations left me feeling a little like a convenience for the owners concerned, rather than someone who was essentially doing them a favour. I would not want again to invest so much financially in something I had no control over ultimately - it's upsetting enough as it is!

I do appreciate, on the other hand, that the responsibility for the major costs lies with the owner. And that the sharer can bugger off if the horse does a tendon, etc.

I've had several glasses of wine since Laura B so may be making no sense at all!

 

[CalllyH]

Oh I certainly do, not just the money but the time as well. However owning a horse is a lifestyle and an owner decides they will shed other luxuries from there life and not have others - thats not a commitment I am ready to make at the moment as much as I miss riding.

I think a monthly rate is better ie £100 a month rather than weekly basis. I paid mine by bank transfer every month on time. It also gives you and the sharer a bit more security - ie they wont just not turn up one week

 

[Burnttoast]

so you think more just £25 a week flat? god i should become a sharer rather than an owner
(not having a go at you cally at all...or any other sharers...totally understand your points made! its just bloody difficult being an owner... i don't think people appreciate how much it all costs sometimes )

Each side has its frustrations - I've seen my owners tearing their hair out and been good enough friends to know roughly what they're going through. I would never take on ownership because I know I could never afford it, but therein lies the rub - I would therefore not expect to bail out an owner in financial difficulties as though I was of equal status in the relationship.

Everyone has different views on this though - when my first share was injured there was never any question that I would be let off the money or the work, and I wouldn't have expected to be, either - whereas my second owner was very keen that I always 'got my rides' and wouldn't take my contribution when he was off - I found that a bit weird. If your (potential) sharer feels the same they are gold dust (she said modestly) and I feel that their emotional investment in *your* horse needs to be reflected at least to some degree in the money.

 

[Vodkagirly]

Hi diggerbez
I think thats a reasonable amount, I paid that for my last share. Especially good if there are no chores, (though I don't mind them to an extend I'm sure I could find something else to do) I pay less with current share as he isn't shod and she hasn't mentioned trimming costs though her motivation is to get the horse ridden not money - I still like to make a contribution though as I am well aware of the costs of owning.
Just a thought could you get 2 sharers? One of the women on my yard has 2 horses her own 17hh has 2 sharers both who only want to ride once a week plus her riding. Her sons 14hh has a sharer who also just rides once a week - she was offered me free rides on it as it needs more work to keep its weight under control.

 

[marmalade76]

When I shared my horse with someone who paid a good proportion to his keep I found myself allowing them to do things I didn't really aprove of because they were paying so therefore they had rights!

I have since shared and not asked for anything, but I was totally happy with this sharer and totally trusted her - she was reliable, experienced and kind to my horse. She offered a small contribution to the keep which I took.

I share my horse because I lack time to ride and need help exercising - I do not require any help with stable chores and so on, so there is no danger of any sharer of mine being treated as a groom.

Good, trustworthy, reliable and experienced sharers are hard to find, and the best sharers may well be the ones least able to contribute towards keep. For me, having a sharer that suited my horse and myself is far more important than financial help, if the sharer can and wants to contribute financially then great, but if not it, matters not to me.

So, if you are sharing your horse only because you need the money you will be limited to those who can afford to pay, so I would try and find a good sharer first and sort the financial side out afterwards.

 

[somethingorother]

Sorry but it's your horse! I think you are talking as if 'poor me' i've got this horse to pay for and no one is being nice and paying half my costs for me'

If someone part loans it, it's not that same as 'owning' half a horse. If they wanted to change farrier would you seriously consider it? What about vet? What about if he went lame on their day? You would want the final say on all those things, and they would in essence only be 'borrowing' your horse on their days.

I pay £20 a week plus 35 for shoes every 6 weeks and have my share/part loan 3 days a week. then again i can't compete really, but i'm not into that anyway. I can do anything else i want with him, and do the jobs on my days.

ETS: it bugs me when people compare it to a riding school. I see that as irrelevant. Did you get a horse because it was cheaper than a riding school? I doubt it. You also don't have to do any jobs at a riding school and have little responsibility in regards to injury etc since you would be under instruction. Nothing to compare.

 

[Vodkagirly]

Somethingorother, I think the reason OP is asking about sharing is because a 2nd loan has gone wrong not a poor me thing.

I realise that as a sharer I don't have control over decisions like which farrier to use but often that is a positive - no chasing unreliable farriers and when I noticed the saddle had started rubbing, I didn't have to arrange the saddlers visit or pay for the £400 new saddle that was required....

when i look at what it would cost me to have my own and to get all the stable stuff, tack and accessories, sharing is a bargain.

 

[diggerbez]

thanks vodkag!
somethingorother- i'm not being "poor old me" sorry if thts how it came across- just getting annoyed with how two faced people are- this is the third loan this year thats gone wrong despite people telling me they love him/ want him for ever...seriosuly if there is a problem why not just say it?!

also...from what you've said, what you pay is not that much different to what i've suggested... so maybe £80 on the first of every month and £30 towards shoes each time might be the best way to go about it?

for that they'd get a horse, fit and ready to go, can go competing tomorrow if they want, they can have lessons and do whatever- oh and i'd do all the jobs (if they wanted me to) because i'm there anyway looking after my other horse. plus (as someone suggested) its me that would be chasing errant farriers, vets, saddlers etc!

 

[riding_high]

a couple of years ago i had a horse for my step daughter, she was over most weekends and during the holidays. after a couple of weeks i noticed my horse was getting a bit angry and upset and i realised that it was because he had to share me with the mare. i had my own 2 horses anyway so my time was being pushed to look after the 3 of them so i advertised for a sharer.
the arrangement with my sharer was that she would 'own' the mare when my step daughter wasn't staying and in return she would just pay for the shoes and share any costs that may have arose. i didn't need help with the livery as i rented a nice field with stabling for very little money pw.

the only downside to that was that she still came over when my step daughter was staying and they would argue over who would help me with my horse even though i didn't need or want any help with him!

 

[diggerbez]

just out of interest...how much would you expect to pay for FULL loan of a horse? (not you specifically riding high, just responders in general! )

 

[Honey08]

For full loan you take over all the costs - its like having your own horse without the expense of buying one.

If I were you I'd just sell it. When you loan them out there is always the risk of them coming back suddenly - like you found out.. I've loaned a couple of mine out, and even though I did have a few good loaners, most of them were a pain!

 

[hayinamanger]

Interesting...I've never shared a horse or been a sharer myself but am just curious as to what a sharer would expect from the arrangement. I guess it depends on the individuals but for example, would a sharer expect to compete or hunt the horse and how many times a week would she expect to ride? Would a contribution to vet's fees be factored into the price, say if the horse did a tendon whilst out with the sharer?
Sorry for so many questions!

 

[CalllyH]

I wouldnt expect to pay vets fees as a sharer as would expect owner to have insurance etc but would expect regular rider to have own insurance

however when I tried to get cover for mine as a sharer they said they couldnt insure me as an exchange of money was taking place - that was with all main stream insurers pet plan and NFU.

 

[diggerbez]

For full loan you take over all the costs - its like having your own horse without the expense of buying one.

If I were you I'd just sell it. When you loan them out there is always the risk of them coming back suddenly - like you found out.. I've loaned a couple of mine out, and even though I did have a few good loaners, most of them were a pain!

so if a full loaner takes on all the costs...why would a part loaner not pay half the costs (or whatever, but on a pro rata basis!).... (not aimed at you Honey...)

if i could sell him, i would. i just can't- he was my first horse, bought for me by my grandpa. i tried to sell him last year and nearly had a nervous breakdown over it... i'd rather go through the stress or loaning/sharing than sell him....

 

[diggerbez]

Interesting...I've never shared a horse or been a sharer myself but am just curious as to what a sharer would expect from the arrangement. I guess it depends on the individuals but for example, would a sharer expect to compete or hunt the horse and how many times a week would she expect to ride? Would a contribution to vet's fees be factored into the price, say if the horse did a tendon whilst out with the sharer?
Sorry for so many questions!

well to me sharer would do 3/4 days and would be able to do whatever they wanted on those days (as if it was their horse) so yes they could compete if they wanted or whatever.
if the horse got injured then no i wouldn't expect them to pay vet's fees as thats what have insurance for.

 

[Burnttoast]

so if a full loaner takes on all the costs...why would a part loaner not pay half the costs (or whatever, but on a pro rata basis!)

I don't get the difference between a share and a part-loan? Is there one?

 

[Kellys Heroes]

No difference between a part loan and share to me I don't think!!
when I started part loaning (8 years ago after 4 years of lessons) I paid £10 a week, for 2 days a week. After 3 weeks of supervision, I went down with my mum and I rode, did the jobs including water, nets, feed, groom etc).
After 3 years I started sharing another horse (same owner) and have been with her ever since. I don't pay anymore, unless I can get to the feed shop/farrier/vet first (!) I am at uni and live away so I am lucky that I can come back to her when I am home I am now in a situation where I can go down every day when I am home and myself and Kelly's owner hack together and swap horses every other day!
I could have afforded my own, financially but my parents knew I was planning on moving away to uni and couldn't physically cope with looking after it and wouldn't want to sell it on - I am so lucky in that I found Kelly because of it!!! I'll never look to get another one whilst I still have her and I plan to stick around for her for the very very very long distance future (ie, forever!!)
I looked to part loan because I wasn't progressing any in my lessons (too many people) and I wanted that closeness the relationship you build up with a horse you see often rather than riding a different one every week. I also wanted the stable chores to go along with the riding.
K x

ETA Kelly has "special" feet too now so I try and pay whenever I can but I get told off by her owner for it!! I am also able to compete, jump, hack, school etc etc whatever I want with her