Thought - starting a horse vs restarting after a break?

[ecrozier]

Just pondering really..... I've just restarted my 4.5 year old after a 6 week winter holiday. I will admit I lunged him last night.... For all of 8 mins. We did 1 min walk, 30s trot twice on each rein with no side reins then I put them on very loosely and we did a lap of outer track on each rein in walk. I mainly wanted to see how he was with all the spooky corners/scary ponies behind the lights, gates slamming.... He was fine. Wanted to properly check soundness as well as obv only seen him in field for last 6 weeks (he is fine and got saddle check and back check booked early feb). I also popped the sidereins on to just check still happy with a very very light contact on his mouth. Again, not fussed!
But that's it for lunging for 6 weeks of fitness plan now, and he won't trot again til we have done 4 or 5 rides in walk only, and even then will be v short bursts!
But when you initially back a horse do you stay in walk for weeks on end? We didn't when we backed him I don't think, iirc we trotted on about the third time we rode him, albeit very short periods! I guess it's not massively plausible to hack a freshly backed horse in walk for the first few weeks?!

 

[kerilli]

i think the ideal of a few weeks of walking just isn't feasible with backers and baby horses. sometimes i find i just have to trot on and get on with it a bit to make them think forwards (esp past a scary thing). also on the lunge sometimes they go utterly nuts and refuse to slow down for 5 mins, interspersed with some serious shape-throwing, but hey, so be it, if they've got that much chuffing energy i'd rather they were getting rid of it out there rather than underneath me...
i think the 'x weeks of walking' is more for older comp horses coming back after a lay off, with high comp goals at the end of it.
i don't like to see a youngster being asked to do a lot very quickly though, esp after a longish lay off.
i guess i usually stay in walk and a bit of trot here and there for a few weeks at least, canter only if the horse offers it (some prefer canter to trot, so that's fine as long as there's no bucking!). there's plenty to do at walk and trot, and over poles etc, to keep one interested for a few weeks.
going off at a tangent: i must admit that one of my huge problems with the way Monty Roberts 'starts' horses is the 'running them round a small pen for, say, 15 mins until they give in' - i always wince at the strain being put on young, unfittened tendons, ligaments, muscles. he says it's kinder on the horses but it doesn't look at all kind to their bodies imho...

 

[MissTyc]

I stay in walk for a long time (should add I'm a hobby rider and compete mostly in dressage, but nothing high level)

My reason is that walk is a hard gait and I find it worth the time teaching them rhythm, flexibility and balance in walk first, both in the school and out and about on hacks. At this stage of training, the horse don't really understand that they can go faster with a human on board, so they tend to happily walk everywhere!

After a few weeks (depending on how often I ride!), things progress very quickly. I find once the walk is established, it's very easy to trot, then canter and I start to do a lot of transitions between gaits and within a few weeks within gaits. Takes about 6 weeks from first sitting on to a gentle walk, trot, canter both in the school and and out in the wilderness. I've never had any problems with this approach, but I think it helps that my horses live out 24/7 on a 50 acre park so they don't usually feel any urges to hoon around with me!

 

[millitiger]

I do tend to back mine a bit differently- they do a lot of long reining instead of lunging and when they are backed it is done in the yard and after we have safely done a few laps in walk we hack out with a nanny.

So my youngsters probably do 5-6 weeks of walking before trotting, but they are walking up/down hills, over rough terrain, on roads etc.

It's not got a lot to do with leg hardening etc (although that is a nice side effect ) more that I like to get mine out and about seeing things rather than practising circles so they don't tend to go in the school (on the lunge or ridden) for at least 6 months after the initial backing and riding away

 

[ecrozier]

Kerrilli that's exactly my plan 2-3 weeks of primarily walking, building up to a bit more trot weeks 2 and 3 and then a walk trot dressag test third weekend in feb, should have had a little canter by then and hopefully a group sj lesson at the end of feb.
I think I'm fairly lucky with mine, he doesn't mind staying in walk, and has a very natural rhythm and flexibility, so we will play with poles etc next week a bit to keep the interest up and try and cram in as many hacks as possible in the current light conditions!! He has after all only been off 6 weeks, and turned out 12 hours of every day, and they are very active in their field!
That's v true about the join up for young horses tho, I hadn't thought of that!

 

[TarrSteps]

I have to say, one of the things that interests me about how people start horses (beyond my obvious professional interest ) is how much we all worry about getting horses fit, building muscle/topline etc. and yet how little this consideration is taken into account when we're developing horses to carry a rider - a task that has no "natural" component or parallel, unlike most of what else we do with them.

I have yet to sit on a healthy young horse for the first time, who isn't soft and flexible in the back - they just don't come "stiff" if they're reasonably prepared, okay with the process and otherwise sound etc. The fact some people seem to accept, even expect, young horses to be stiff would suggest there are a lot of horses getting that way very quickly, which would also suggest it's the early work that's contributing. Now I know it's a bit the "cost of doing business" and that riding takes a toll on any horse but fairly early on I was lucky to sit on horses prepared by really master trainers with years of experience and training and their horses felt "ready to do" almost the first day I sat on them and they stayed that way, loose and swinging in the back, through their initial training. So I don't accept horses *have* to get stiff then we make them supple again through schooling. I accept it happens, especially if the horse is doing other work that doesn't foster suppleness and relaxation, but I'm not buying it's a foregone conclusion and I think it's in the horses' best interests to try to avoid it as much as possible. Keeping something is so much easier than fixing it!

I don't think it's necessarily about staying in walk though - the horses I mentioned above all trotted in the first few rides and I do that with horses I start myself for a number of reasons - but it is about doing the prep work and listening to the horse. And about having the horse work correctly from the start, including a swinging walk on a long rein. Getting out hacking is great, obviously, but it's not an option for every situation with every horse and I KNOW it's perfectly possible to produce good, sound, mentally well adjusted horses without that.

 

[ecrozier]

Tarrsteps thanks - very interesting. Thats pretty much exactly what my train of thought was re getting an older horse fit vs the starting process with a 3/4/5 year old. My youngster IMO is the opposite of stiff, he overtracks easily in walk and trot and has soft flexible paces and a naturally muscular topline and soft and relaxed gullet under neck. Yes it could do with building more muscle but he's certainly starting from the right basis.... and he has offered a soft and connected outline pretty much from the start. Its really brought home to me exactly what you are saying - how many horses that have been started who have almost been trained out of this to then be trained back into it again?
Incidentally he has now done his 8 mins lunging yesterday and a 20 min walk out today so will tomorrow do 10 mins in school mainly in walk, and then hack out again at the weekend!