Thoughts and ideas on cause of stroppy, stiff, one-side rhinosaurous *long ramble*

Kallibear

Kallibear

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Kalli is 9yrs old 17hh ish clydesdale X. Got her at 5yrs old, spent 3 years
hacking everywhere with a bit of light schooling. Last year she moved to a proper serious dressage yard, still hacks regularly (plus beach trips, day trips, bit of jumping etc etc so life's not boring) but much more proper flatwork, which is really showing up her problem

She has always had a short and stilted stride. She's always felt heavy and stiff to ride. She's never been sharp or light to ride. And she's always been stroppy and opionionated to ride, esp if asked to do anything more difficult: She naps, won't bend, won't go forwards or won't stop, bulldozes round like an elephant and genenerally won't co-operate. She makes you feel like you can't ride :o She's never dangerous though - never bucks or rears or bolts off. On the ground though she's an angel :o

Her movement truely is ridiculous - she mostly trots like a 12hh pony with a funny shuffling stride behind, but can move normally if very excited. She really struggles to bend on the right rein and cannot canter properly on the left rein - it's definintly 'can't', not 'won't' - her canter on right rein is fairly good. She's just as bad on the lunge and loose.

She is also increadibly nappy and backwards thinking - She is very unspooky and pretty much bombproof but once she's decided she's not going there is nothing you can do to make her. It's manageable out hacking (and very rare now) but it's made her diffiuclt to school and imposible to compete :(

It also makes it so hard to tell if her behaviour is 'can't' or 'won't' - is she just being nappy and lazy, or is she struggling? It's been going on for so long, and she's always been like that. She's so stoic and won't tell you directly about pain. Or is her response to pain the behaviour we're seeing?

We've had two vets out to looks at her - first one, ages ago, said have shoes put on her and see if that helped ( :eek: what the hell? she has beautiful barefoot, if very squint feet, balanced to her squint movement - farrier thinks they're excellent if unusual :o ) - made not a blind bit of different other than making her clumsy. Last year we had a second vet who hummed and harred, basically said 'I don't know' after watching her on the lunge for a couple of mins, couldn't tell us if she was sound and told us to give her a pack of bute a day for a week to see if it helped :rolleyes: No difference.

Have also had her body-worked and chiro-d a couple of times - they thought she was sound but very stiff down one side. Cracked and pulled and prodded bits of her (which she loved :o) but didn't really make much difference.

Had various different saddles fitted, all looking like an excellent fit (in Barry Swains, Ideals and WOW's) - doesn't make any difference.

Proffesional dressage rider she's schooled by (and has lessons with) regularly thinks she's a difficult, stubborn and stroppy horse but unsure if it's her nature or if she's been trying to tell us something for ages.

Anyways - we've got a different (and hopefully much better) vet coming out again in a couple of days to see what they think.

Any thoughts or ideas to run past the vet? My two main are bilateral hindlinb lameness or kissing spines BUT we need to get it diagnose so it can be treated on insurance - can't afford to pour money into her again for an non-commital 'well, i don't really know.......'

OR - anyone what to swap a large hairy mommoth who only wants to hack for a light and responsive schoolmaster??!
 
have you tried schooling out hacking?

my mare was stiff as a board really, no bend, no flexion or suppleness. just stop go and turn really.

so i really knuckled down, and just schooled in straight linesto start with.
standing (square) and flexing neck.
billions of transitions (direct and indirect). these were key- too long in one gait and she lost everything because she just didnt have the fitness/muscles.

working on really straight lines (work towards middle of road almost so you arent both relying on the kerb)
leg yielding (at one point she refused to go over, so i took my mum with me and i asked for leg yield and mum shoved her from the ground so it clicked lol)
shoulder in
turn on the fore/quarters (its all just moving what you want where really)

I also started riding bareback more often, because i could feel what was going on more easily

basically i took it back to basics, had to get tough, but we battled through. it all clicked in the end though thankfully.

canter was the hardest, she was unbalanced so rushed, but the rushing didnt help so it was a vicous circle. in the end i had to make her slow down a lot; it wasnt pretty but was needed.
walk to canter was the best way, because she had to jump into canter (impulsion) but couldnt just fall into it like in trot when she had a tendancy to go flat and run into it.

now, shes a hundred times better, just tackling leg yield in trot (with a straight body! no trailing hind quarters :D) good flexion/bend in all paces, able to collect/extend, works round my leg, and lifts her back and users her butt pretty much all the time :D
 
May sound silly but in your post you say can move if she wants to do you think that maybe she just doesnt want to ?

I really think some horses are suited to some jobs usually the ones they like doing if they have a very easy attitude they will change their mind but some arent suited to dressage lots of schooling.

This has only become very popular fairly recently so horses would have maybe had other jobs maybe because of her breeding heavy as well, i think most horses excell at some job or another and its not worth forcing them in to what you want if tis not what they enjoy this is not a slight on you or your horse just my opinion but i would rather my horse had to go to another owner if it could really love a job i didnt want do do.
 
My very forward going Appy became nappy and difficult, exp. in canter on the right rein. Our vet also does chiro and accupuncture. He declared she had problem with the vertebra at her poll. Worked his magic with chiro and the needles, she was 100% better almost immediately. I would recomend that you try and find some one who can do all that, mind you we are lucky in that our vet is a bit 'alternative' :)
 
Could just be Clydesdale not bred for ridden work so just not suitable for the job you expect. Hacking and having a good attitude to hack does not mean a horse is willing to go round in small circles etc. She is a big horse to hope to become:rolleyes a dressage diva??:cool:confused:
 
If it helps, my mare (Cob x) was incredibly stiff, nappy & stroppy when I bought her. I think because she was so stiff, so found working in the school hard, and napped/stropped in protest.

What has worked for us is spending the last 6 months very slowly suppling her, millons of transitions. Started working on a 50p shape, not working to deep into the corners, asking for slight flexion & releasing, working up to circles as her muscles developed. Concentrating on keeping her soft as she fixes her neck, really working her forward into a contact.

Controlling her shoulders has been key, working on straight lines & circles, maintaining the flexion without falling out. Loads on lengthening & shortening within a pace, to help establish a better rhythm. Lateral work (turn on the forehand) to help establish the bend is really useful. Worked solely in walk for about 6 weeks! Canter is still a little ropey, but we are getting there.

Kept schooling sessions to 20-30 mins, asking consistently and firmly, but allowing plenty of time for her to stretch down during our sessions.

She's now coming good, working *properly* and the i-can't-do-it tantrums are alot less frequent!

Agree with xloopylozzax, schooling out hacking too sounds like a good idea. Have to disagree with Azmar though, just because she is a clydie doesn't mean she shouldn't be able to work basically correctly as well.

Sorry for essay! She just sounds a lot like your mare. It is a long old slog. I think as long as you are really black & white & consistent in what you are asking, she may well come round once she realises she can do it! Wish you all the best :)
 
Azmar said:
Could just be Clydesdale not bred for ridden work so just not suitable for the job you expect. Hacking and having a good attitude to hack does not mean a horse is willing to go round in small circles etc. She is a big horse to hope to become:rolleyes a dressage diva??:cool:confused:
Click to expand...

^^ this is a common comment from the many vets who have tried to find out whats wrong with our clydie Jacob. They also say that clydie confirmation isnt great for faster work which is probably why he is broken :( We did a bute trial which really showed how much better he moved when pain free. This lead to the investigations that found coffin joint issues.

We found schooling on big circles in the field got the best results and he had success in Prelim and Novice, so not bad for a heavy ;)

Clydies are wonderful but frustrating creatures, your best friend who would happily spend all day on the sofa watching tv and scoffing chocolate if they were human :rolleyes:


Good Luck with Kalli x
 
Thanks for the replies (and helpful PM's - I'll reply late, honest!)

The schooling advise is excellent, and spot up, but unfortunuatly what we've been doing with her for the last year to no avail. She has had SOOOOO much time (and money!) invested in her school with the help of a very good top level dressage instructor) and it's made very little difference :( Her walk is as good as it will ever get - fairly free, forwards, flexible and light but the second you hit trot it falls apart - even the proffesional rider can hardly get to trot round a corners properly :(

As for being a clydesdale - she's a CD cross. With TB ;) Sorry for being misleading - she's actually a middleweight-HW hunter! Big but not massively heavy. And she school she works in is a large 60x22 so not a small space for her either.

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My very forward going Appy became nappy and difficult, exp. in canter on the right rein. Our vet also does chiro and accupuncture. He declared she had problem with the vertebra at her poll. Worked his magic with chiro and the needles, she was 100% better almost immediately. I would recomend that you try and find some one who can do all that, mind you we are lucky in that our vet is a bit 'alternative'
Click to expand...

That sounds familar - both chiro and bodyworker said she is very stiff through her poll. Sorted her out (twice) and didn't much difference :( I have a suspicion the stiffness there is caused by something else elsewhere.

May sound silly but in your post you say can move if she wants to do you think that maybe she just doesnt want to ?

I really think some horses are suited to some jobs usually the ones they like doing if they have a very easy attitude they will change their mind but some arent suited to dressage lots of schooling.

This has only become very popular fairly recently so horses would have maybe had other jobs maybe because of her breeding heavy as well, i think most horses excell at some job or another and its not worth forcing them in to what you want if tis not what they enjoy this is not a slight on you or your horse just my opinion but i would rather my horse had to go to another owner if it could really love a job i didnt want do do.
Click to expand...

That is a conculsion we may come to :( However, she's so stroppy and nappy everywhere, inc out hacking, at the beach, at le trec, out jumping etc, that it hard to say she's just bored of schooling. Plus she only schooled a couple of times a week - the rest is hacking or out in the trailer somewhere nice. The only time she's ever been overly enthusiastic was on a common ride (she's very clingy and excitable about other horses) but she was such a handful and difficult that she's not suitbale for a hunting life.

Someone sensible suggested EMPS by PM - classic symptoms but she'd fed nothing but hay or restricted grass (good do-ing wooly mammoth) so no starch in her diet at all
 
Sounds like there is a physical problem somewhere. I had a horse with similar stiffness, but very forward going (to the point of taking off frequently) which turned out to be billateral hindlimb lameness due to OCD (very difficult to see, as both hinds were lame so nothing to compare them to).

I would try to get a more experienced vet out and go for a full lameness work-up (by the sounds of things neither previous vet did this? I would expect them to see the horse walked/trot on the hard, flexion tests, on the lunge on a surface and if safe on the lunge on a hard surface. Also check teeth, back, poll, etc.). Good luck, hope you get to the bottom of it!
 
Its sounds like she in pain somewhere and trying to tell you.

I would get a experienced vet out to give her a good check over and a full lamenesss done and take it from there.

Hope you get her sorted soon and you get to the bottom of things :) x
 
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