Thoughts please - COPD also in vet

Magicmillbrook

Magicmillbrook

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Sorry - this is a long one. I would really like some advice from any one who has a copd hors/vet experience or just some thoughts from a person detached from my horse.

My mare is about 24, she has had a mild COPD as long as we have owned her (11 years), in the past we have managed it and she has only had a few mild bouts that have cleared as soon as she is turned out-we keep her out as much as possible anyway due to arthritus.

This year she had a bout in March that didnt respond when she was turned out 24/7. She had 3 months on a (pink/burgundy) streroid inhaler and she improved to the extent that you couldnt see laboured breathing and could only hear a slight wheeze if you put your ear to her nostrils, but whenever the inhaler ran out or we had a hot sunny day she was panting and wheezing and very uncomfortable. She also hates hates hates having the inhaler.

She has since had a scope and lung wash. Some swelling and mucus noted but nothing sinister. Lab results showed infammatory response (allergy) and some infection, but vet thinks infection was probably secondary to the allergy. She was given a course of anti bios (baytrill sp?) and an oral steroid. After this vet thought we should scope again to see if there is an improvement, however there isnt much else in terms of medication other than medication to break up the mucus and ventapulmin(?). We are thinking the allergy may be pollen as she seems so much worse when there is a high pollen count.

With the anti b's and the oral steroid she has improved a bit more, breathing is easier and just a slight wheeze audible, with the recent hot weather or if she has been having a hoon the wheezing is more noticeable but not the distressing 'pant' that she was doing.

If it is a pollen allergy we could keep her in when pollen count is high BUT to the detriment of her dust allergy and arthritis. The oral steroids helped a lot but nearly £100 for the 10 day course. The inhalers are about £40 per month so doable, we just have the trauma (to all concerned!) of administering them. Also Is ther any point putting her through another scope?

This months vet bill is just over £500, last months £162 and the month before £416. Due to her age her insurance is accident only, and much as I love her there has to be a limit. Has anyone had any similar experiences or advice as to what to do.
 
My 23 year old Arab has COPD and has had it for years. He was on so much Ventipulmin each week and was still deteriorating, so I consulted a homeopthic vet some years ago. I thought that he was going to die with the reaction to the first homeopathic tablets, but he then recovered so much - and very fast) that he no longer needed Ventipulmin. I did subsequently nebulise him with sodium cromoglicate (Opticrom hayfever eye drops, or pharmacy's equivalent) at harvest time, and before we did a long distance ride. The last couple of years, I've also fed him a Horslyx Respiratory lick - and that really did stop him coughing. He has been wheezing going uphill recently - I thought that his was due to past damage to his lungs and did less with hm accordingly but the vet examined him last Friday and reckons that his lungs are fine, he's just fat, because I've been working him less and he's lost fitness. Probably not much help to you but if your vet says her lungs are ok, I'd try to maintain her fitness - it's going to be difficult to re-build my boy's fitness to the previous leel in view of his age.
 
Triskar said:
My 23 year old Arab has COPD and has had it for years. He was on so much Ventipulmin each week and was still deteriorating, so I consulted a homeopthic vet some years ago. I thought that he was going to die with the reaction to the first homeopathic tablets, but he then recovered so much - and very fast) that he no longer needed Ventipulmin. I did subsequently nebulise him with sodium cromoglicate (Opticrom hayfever eye drops, or pharmacy's equivalent) at harvest time, and before we did a long distance ride. The last couple of years, I've also fed him a Horslyx Respiratory lick - and that really did stop him coughing. He has been wheezing going uphill recently - I thought that his was due to past damage to his lungs and did less with hm accordingly but the vet examined him last Friday and reckons that his lungs are fine, he's just fat, because I've been working him less and he's lost fitness. Probably not much help to you but if your vet says her lungs are ok, I'd try to maintain her fitness - it's going to be difficult to re-build my boy's fitness to the previous leel in view of his age.
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Interesting - Ditto the fitness as my girl is the same age as your boy and she suffers from arthritis too.
 
I had a ony that developed allergies.... Like you I had her on inhalers, the brown steroid one and the blue ventolin. I also had her on chlorphenamine 4mg tablets (piriton) which really saved her life! We had her on 30 a day to start (she is 10.3hh) with, alongside the inhalers and gradually reduced them as she got better. She's now off everything. We think she was allergic to something in my field... We don't know what but the tablets made all the difference to her and they are do cheap. You can buy a box of 30 from hayfeverdirect.co.uk for next to nothing. Hth
 
This is interesting, because everyone I know at work with hayfever is really suffering and sneezing at the moment - apparently pollen levels are really high, although in view of the torrential rain that surprises me.... It could be that my old boy and your mare are reacting to that. I might try chlorphenamine if his wheezing doesn't improve as he loses weight
 
My old girl has COPD bouts which eventually developed into Summer Pasture Associated COPD in her later years. Grass and tree pollen seemed to affect her the most, ventipulmin stopped touching the symptoms and we had to resort to steriod inhalers. Like yours she hated having it done, got stressed which resulted in more laboured breathing etc. She was retired as she could no longer cope with exercise (she was mid 20's by this point) which didn't help.

Its a hard call to make, she was otherwise very healthy and happy being a field ornament and looked amazing but during a particular dry summer (2 years ago) she seemed to struggle every day for 2 weeks just walking the short distance to her field, we tried everything but nothing seemed to ease it for her, flared nostrils, laboured breathing and the sparkle went from her eyes, thats when I took the decision to say goodbye ... It broke my heart but seeing her struggle was worse knowing there was nothing more we could do to help her. Of course she might have been better had I given her another few days but there would always have been the next year and the year after, like you say, you have to draw the line somewhere and for me she let me know where that line was :-/

Good luck with your decision ... for me, 'usually' if someone is asking that question then in their heart they know the answer ((hugs)) ....
 
My 7yo horse has SPAOD. It started in May and he has been on the inhalers & ventipulmin. None of which helped. He also didnt like the inhalers and got stressed and sweaty when I tried to get him to accept them. Ive now given up trying. Ive had another vet out to him this week who says hes fine & theres no audible sounds with his airways. However, he does have a slight heave line/looks like hes tucked up and flares his nostrils. He is worse with light work. Vet hasnt given him anything so for the past month hes only been on Global Herbs pollenex which doesnt seem to be helping either. Im seriously considering retirement livery.

BTW - If i used piriton syrup how much of it would you put in the feed or are the tablets best?
 
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Jojoeena said:
My old girl has COPD bouts which eventually developed into Summer Pasture Associated COPD in her later years. Grass and tree pollen seemed to affect her the most, ventipulmin stopped touching the symptoms and we had to resort to steriod inhalers. Like yours she hated having it done, got stressed which resulted in more laboured breathing etc. She was retired as she could no longer cope with exercise (she was mid 20's by this point) which didn't help.

Its a hard call to make, she was otherwise very healthy and happy being a field ornament and looked amazing but during a particular dry summer (2 years ago) she seemed to struggle every day for 2 weeks just walking the short distance to her field, we tried everything but nothing seemed to ease it for her, flared nostrils, laboured breathing and the sparkle went from her eyes, thats when I took the decision to say goodbye ... It broke my heart but seeing her struggle was worse knowing there was nothing more we could do to help her. Of course she might have been better had I given her another few days but there would always have been the next year and the year after, like you say, you have to draw the line somewhere and for me she let me know where that line was :-/

Good luck with your decision ... for me, 'usually' if someone is asking that question then in their heart they know the answer ((hugs)) ....
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Flicks is exactly like this, when she is suffering Its terrible, but when she is not wheezing she is otherwise fit and healthy , if a little stiff. This horse owes us nothing and has been such a star I owe it to do the right thing.
 
I think it's worth trying the antihistamines - as Laura said, they are dirt cheap and I've just been looking them up - they are recommended for small animals, pigs, goats, cattle and horses. My old boy isn't too bad at the moment, and is still enjoying life - for me it's a choice between riding him on the flat in the school (which bores the pants off him) or hacking - which involves uphill work round here, and which makes him wheeze.
 
Triskar said:
I think it's worth trying the antihistamines - as Laura said, they are dirt cheap and I've just been looking them up - they are recommended for small animals, pigs, goats, cattle and horses. My old boy isn't too bad at the moment, and is still enjoying life - for me it's a choice between riding him on the flat in the school (which bores the pants off him) or hacking - which involves uphill work round here, and which makes him wheeze.
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I will have a chat with my vet on Monday - ATM she is not too bad so no urgency (keeps fingers and toes crossed), if you look at my post in Vetinary someone suggested another medication that works out cheaper than the oral steroids we were using.

"A cheaper option you could discuss with your vet is to administer an injectable form of dexamethasone orally. I find this works very well when inhalers are not an option, and is cheaper than prednisolone at around £10-15 pounds a week when given daily. Usually this can subsequently be reduced to every other day which obviously reduces the cost further. Obviously there is always a very small risk of laminitis, but when balancing all the considerations, quality of life, efficacy, cost, etc., I find this is often a good option".

Good vibes to the other wheezies out there
 
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I have to say, if she is allergic essentially to summer,a nda llergic essentially to winter it might be that you have to make a decision-only you will know but if she's still wheezing she might be quite uncomfortable :/
 
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