Thoughts please

[3OldPonies]

This might ramble, so I apologise in advance, it's really just me thinking aloud and wondering what other people would do in this situation.

A while ago I posted about the possibility of taking on the horse that I've been riding for a friend (17 yrs old with arthritis and bad feet). Since then I've not seen his owner, she has been away, and we'd had a slight falling out (nothing serious) so haven't really been in contact either. Anyway, yesterday there was an incident with a fire near the stables where he is kept and I got talking to the YO last night as my boys were also near the scene, fortunately well out of harms way. (I do hope none of them read this.) We got on to the subject of this horse as he was pretty badly frightened and has upset his arthritis through charging around to the point at which he is now lame. We were just chatting lightly about this and what to do for him, when his feet were mentioned. Turns out that his feet haven't been seen now for well over the 7 weeks normal trimming period and owner wants to leave until the end of this month when the farrier is next visiting my chaps as she doesn't want the expense of him being out of sync with her other horse who was seen a week before the last appointment for a separate issue to the routine trim. His feet are now a right state, chipped, cracked, flaking, smelly frogs and so on. Then she mentions his tooth. Tooth? I say completely innocently as his oral care has never come up for discussion before. She is shocked that I don't know. He has a wobbly tooth that can get infected from time to time as it really should come out - but like the feet the owner won't pay for it, although a cleaning appointment has been booked by the YO as her horses are due an EDT visit. This explains why he had been backing off when he sees his bridle - something, along with the feet, I mentioned to the owner.

Now, I love this horse dearly he is a super person and has got my confidence back. I'd decided, after all your replies and a good common sense talking to by the OH to walk away. But now I am so worried for him. It sounds so bad that he has all these things wrong with him, but with good care and attention I'm sure he has years left in him, but he's not getting the care that he needs at his time of life, he doesn't even get fed properly to my way of thinking - a scoop of chaff for something his size and age with the problems he has just doesn't cut the mustard with me, he doesn't even get a vitamin and mineral supplement.

To be honest, I'm not even really sure what to think right now or what I'm asking you guys. It would be better off in some ways if he was PTS rather than be suffering this 'not quite neglect'. The YO does her best, but she doesn't have a bottomless pit of money any more than I do to spend on nursing someone else's horse back to proper health and I can see this coming to quite a falling out between the three of us shortly if the owner doesn't get him the professional care he needs. I'm almost back at the stage of saying I'll have him if she gets the tooth sorted as a minimum because I can't stand seeing him treated so badly. And I think the YO might be thinking about telling her to get it sorted or get off the yard, she hates seeing this as much as I do. But then I do already have 2 retired elderly field ornaments with their 'special needs', and common sense says a third with problems, even though he can be ridden for light hacking, could be more trouble than its worth; so I'm also thinking I should just stay out of it completely, and let the two of them get on with it.

Sorry for the long post, I'm feeling totally confused - any comments most welcome.

 

[touchstone]

It sounds as if the owner is shirking her responsibilities totally. If she plans on keeping him she needs to fork out for his care. It would be kinder to pts than to slowly let him deteriorate like that.

I do think he sounds as if he could be an expensive problem if you took him on, but it is so hard when they are special to us.

Personally I'd keep out of it and hope the owner does right by the horse.

 

[muckypony]

You can do one of two things - stay out of it completely, or offer to take the horse (which might involve paying for it).

In a normal situation I would stay out of it. But I know that if I had any kind of emotional tie to the horse (sorry, I haven't read your previous posts so coming in blind and unsure of quite how attached you are) I would want the horse with me and be able to take care of it for its final days.

 

[3OldPonies]

Thanks touchstone, and muckypony I think I do know really that I should just keep out of it. I just needed to air my thoughts to be able to get them straight.

Like you say it's really difficult when a horse is special and I really hate seeing any horse treated like that. It's actually how I came to get H and his sadly no longer with us sidekick nearly 18 years ago! So I know totally what I would be letting myself in for (I didn't back then) and I'm honestly not sure I fancy it all over again despite how much I adore this horse. But, I can be a total pushover, and my OH and father know that and also like the horse concerned, they also know how happy he makes me when we've been for a plod round the fields together! So they're not being a lot of help either. Just like me they're wavering between rescue him or leave them to get on with it! Just have to see how it all pans out I suppose. I'd hate to see him PTS just because someone can't be bothered, but again, like you say, that would be better than leaving him to deteriorate.

arrgghhh its soooooooo difficult!

 

[muckypony]

Tell me not to be so nosey, but do you have your own land?

If no then I would definitely keep out, but if yes then... (not being very helpful am I!!)

Also, would getting him mean that you cannot get another horse to ride?

 

[YorksG]

I think the YO needs to tell the owner to get the health problems sorted out. It is then up to the owner to either do that, ask you to take him on, have him pts or find another yard that will take him on. He does sound a nice chap and it may well be worth you taking him on

 

[milliepops]

Tell me not to be so nosey, but do you have your own land?

If no then I would definitely keep out, but if yes then... (not being very helpful am I!!)

Also, would getting him mean that you cannot get another horse to ride?

^^ these are the relevant questions IMO Saw your other thread about him.

For me, if all I wanted was a quiet hack now and then, and I loved riding the horse, AND it wasn't going to cost mega livery to put him up, then I'd offer a little bit of money to buy him, and then try and get his dental/feet issues sorted out fairly quickly.

otherwise, I'd strongly suggest to the owner that she needs to do the decent thing and PTS, and then cut my losses. You can't be worrying about every horse in the world, if there is nothing you can do to help it. All that happens is you get more and more depressed and go slowly mad. You have to harden your heart sometimes.

 

[3OldPonies]

Answers to your questions:

No, I don't have my own land, but I pay for the whole yard/field rather than per horse/per week.

No, I couldn't get another horse if I took this one on (well not unless something happened to one or both of the two I already have)

You're quite right - I should harden my heart and walk away, whoever said I can't take on everything I feel sorry for is spot on. I think it could all come to a head either this weekend or next as the owner will be back from travelling then and YO is I know feeling a bit peeved that she's been left with him in the state he is know. The incident yesterday has just focused her thoughts as well as mine on the fact that this can't be allowed to go on indefinitely.

 

[muckypony]

For me, if all I wanted was a quiet hack now and then, and I loved riding the horse, AND it wasn't going to cost mega livery to put him up, then I'd offer a little bit of money to buy him, and then try and get his dental/feet issues sorted out fairly quickly.

Yep this is what I'd do.

It doesn't sounds as though his problems will take much to sort out, with some proper care and management of his arthritis he could make a lovely hack!

 

[bluedanube]

You know what you'll be taking on but you still seem tempted so If you have your own land and can afford the vets bills to sort him out and he really does make you smile out hacking then offer to buy him for a nominal sum.
If not, then distance yourself and let the YO deal with it.
A really difficult decision but I hope that whatever you decide it's right for you.

 

[milliepops]

Yep this is what I'd do.

It doesn't sounds as though his problems will take much to sort out, with some proper care and management of his arthritis he could make a lovely hack!

he could, and as mean as it sounds, i would set an absolute limit in terms of deterioration, beyond which I would just pack him off to the kennels with no regrets, and knowing I'd given him (hopefully ) a few good years & no suffering.

IMO if you make that decision in advance, it's easier to stick with. I know I'll give my right arm to keep Millie going comfortably in her old age, but projects etc come with a best-before date. x

 

[3OldPonies]

He's an absolute joy to hack when he's sound and full of confidence building vibes. He likes to be out and about and takes a real interest in everything (OK too keen an interest in the grass sometimes!!!!!) it's just a real pleasure to be out with him. If he was an absolute nightmare to ride I wouldn't even be entertaining the thought of taking him on, and I think I may have made my mind up not to do so and to just say away. But like I say I can be a pushover, so I'm not going to say that's a definite. I don't want to be admitting to you helpful people that I've said one thing and done another!!!!!

 

[milliepops]

If you do decide to walk away, for your own sake, you have to be absolutely able to turn a blind eye to future issues. The YO sounds like she's got her head screwed on anyway. I'm sure some people will disagree, but I've been there - you can't keep trying to help some people when you are totally powerless to act and they refuse to listen or accept help. Unless you think the welfare suffers to the point of needing to call WHW or similar. You just have to mentally step back and look in the other direction. Or you will lose your mind stressing out over it

Shame, sounds like a lovely horse. Hope you can reach the right decision for you and you don't need to worry about owning up to HHO, it's none of our business really! Just trying to offer things for you to consider

 

[3OldPonies]

See I knew I could rely on HHO'ers to approach this in a balanced way rather than the emotional one that I'm in - it's why I posted. The YO does indeed have her head very firmly screwed on! Normally so do I too, but this has just got under my skin a bit, and wormed it's way right into my head! More deep thinking required before a final decision!

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I think that what you should do depends on two things.

1, can you afford to take him on and sort his issues? I wouldn't bank on the owner getting the tooth fixed ever, as they would have sorted it already IMO.

2, could you sleep at night having not taken him on, knowing that his issues won't be cared for as you would like?

 

[3OldPonies]

aww Faracat - I thought I'd made my mind up - then you come along and remind me of the sleepless night I had yesterday worrying about the poor boy

 

[Barnacle]

You know, I've been in this position before... Kind of am right now. If you care about the horse and money isn't a big problem, brace yourself now, you don't just have the options of ignoring or taking... There is a third road. Pay for the farrier and a dentist... Now the thing is this will be an unpopular route because it helps out what I think we all see as a neglectful owner. But if we consider the horse's welfare first, this is the right thing to do and it's a one-off cost so you don't need to give up on another horse etc etc. it's also worth pointing out that the owner seems to be 'neglecting' the horse simply because she can't handle the expense. She's not doing it out of malice... So helping her out wouldn't be a bad thing.

 

[3OldPonies]

Nice idea Barnacle, trouble is though and I haven't put it in earlier because it seemed mean and bitchy, is that the owner could afford it if she was willing to adjust other parts of her life and really put some effort into her horses!

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Sorry 3OP.

 

[3OldPonies]

Faracat - LOL!

 

[touchstone]

I really wouldn't offer to pay for the horse's treatment, I think the owner will take the proverbial and it could get messy if there are disagreements on treatment etc. If the owner can afford to go travelling, I think she should be prioritising. If you have the costs, you may as well have the horse! It's probably worth being aware that there may be other things that you haven't been told about, or will come to light, so costs could be a much more major issue than it first seems.

The sleepless night thing is awful, it is just as well I'm not in a position to take on any more, as I've been offered three free horses that have all pulled at my heartstrings, it is also how I ended up with six cats too (they are much easier to acquire than horses!)

I think you've got to weigh up more will you regret not getting him and always wondering 'what if'; or will you regret the time, money and perhaps emotional upset that having him creates? Also worth considering if your other horses will require expensive treatments or more care down the line how thinly do you want to spread yourself.

I don't envy your dilemma!

 

[3OldPonies]

touchstone, I think you make some very valid points there. I don't have so much money in the pot that I could afford for the owner to take the money and not do the treatment and it could very easily get very messy. You are also spot on I think about other things coming to light - I've been riding him for ages and doing bits around the yard but until last night I had no idea about that tooth! (Although I had suspected he might be in need of a dentist visit because he wasn't as accepting of the bit as previously.) Also about the commitments I already have, both are uninsured for vet bills owing to their advanced years and past histories, and I have in my mind the hard hearted commitment to PTS should ever either of them need expensive or intensive treatment. This would be the same for the horse in question as well as I would imagine he has a fair few exclusions on his insurance thanks to the arthritis.

 

[Kat]

Why not suggest that she gives you half what it would cost to have him pts and hands him over to you.

His feet and teeth sound fixable so it might end well and if not you give him a kind ending..........