Three horses die at Kempton racing

[Chianti]

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/horse-racing/articles/cpv7r7mk8eno

One of them was three. If this happened in any other animal event then there would be outrage and a demand for change but it's racing so it's just a bad day at the office.

 

[daffy44]

In any other equine event there wouldnt be a lucrative betting industry involved.

 

[Gamebird]

Whilst I agree that this is tragic, it would be useful if the BBC reported the facts correctly. Those are not the sort of errors I would expect from a national broadcaster.

The youngest horse was 4 (it's not any better, but it's at least accurate), and Harry Derham was not the jockey, but the trainer.

 

[Jenko109]

I used to quite enjoy racing.

I do like to see the horses, looking fit and well. They are beautiful.

But as ive gotten older, I find myself questioning what right we have to risk these beautiful animals in the way we do.

You hear all the usual rubbish.

'Horses die turned out in the field'
'They are treated like kings and want for nothing'
'They love to run'

Blah blah.

None of it makes it okay.

Where there is money, there will always be exploitation.

The reality is, if it was jockeys dying at the rate in which the horses do, the sport would not exist.

Just another example of how welfare only matters to people when it suits them.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Yup, and those who were briefly handwringing for the dead horses elsewhere will soon be back chattering excitedly about upcoming meetings. On with the new.

 

[Burnttoast]

You hear all the usual rubbish.

'Horses die turned out in the field'
'They are treated like kings and want for nothing'
'They love to run'

Blah blah.

None of it makes it okay.

Not only does none of that make it ok, most of that isn't even true. That really grates. They aren't treated like kings, even if that meant anything to a horse (and we have one handily close by we can compare them with), they want for many things, and running = fear for the horse brain. Wasn't it John Dunlop who said on TV a few years back that we exploit their fear, their need to be the one at the front in a group of running horses, for racing?

 

[FieldOrnaments]

I'm not sure kept inside 90% of the time from being backed at a year old and fed in such a way that the vast majority have ulcers is treating them like kings.

 

[VictoriaSponge]

As someone who knows relatively little about racing, will there be any consequences/investigation from this? I appreciate that unprecedented accidents happen, but to an outsider three horses lost in one day sounds like it would point to a correlation of some sort. Is there any effort put into finding out what caused a horse to fall when it happens to prevent it in the future, or is it just chalked up to bad luck?

 

[Gamebird]

As someone who knows relatively little about racing, will there be any consequences/investigation from this? I appreciate that unprecedented accidents happen, but to an outsider three horses lost in one day sounds like it would point to a correlation of some sort. Is there any effort put into finding out what caused a horse to fall when it happens to prevent it in the future, or is it just chalked up to bad luck?

There is a fatality review into every racecourse death (and non-fatal injury) conducted in depth by the BHA in conjunction with several involved parties. When there is more than one death at a meeting there is an extra layer to the investigation.
Details can be found here:

HORSE PWR - What happens when there are fatalities on a raceday

British racing is committed to identifying and reducing all avoidable risk for horses.

horsepwr.co.uk

Previous investigations have led to changes in safety procedures, so definitely not just chalked up to bad luck.

 

[Chianti]

There is a fatality review into every racecourse death (and non-fatal injury) conducted in depth by the BHA in conjunction with several involved parties. When there is more than one death at a meeting there is an extra layer to the investigation.
Details can be found here:

HORSE PWR - What happens when there are fatalities on a raceday

British racing is committed to identifying and reducing all avoidable risk for horses.

horsepwr.co.uk

Previous investigations have led to changes in safety procedures, so definitely not just chalked up to bad luck.

And yet, no matter how many reviews are held, horses keep on dying.

 

[VictoriaSponge]

There is a fatality review into every racecourse death (and non-fatal injury) conducted in depth by the BHA in conjunction with several involved parties. When there is more than one death at a meeting there is an extra layer to the investigation.
Details can be found here:

HORSE PWR - What happens when there are fatalities on a raceday

British racing is committed to identifying and reducing all avoidable risk for horses.

horsepwr.co.uk

Previous investigations have led to changes in safety procedures, so definitely not just chalked up to bad luck.

Interesting; thanks for sharing.

I appreciate there is no way to have a control as to how many fatalities these reviews have prevented, but the fatality % has remained much the same for the last thirty years.

 

[Orangehorse]

As someone who knows relatively little about racing, will there be any consequences/investigation from this? I appreciate that unprecedented accidents happen, but to an outsider three horses lost in one day sounds like it would point to a correlation of some sort. Is there any effort put into finding out what caused a horse to fall when it happens to prevent it in the future, or is it just chalked up to bad luck?

Of course there is, the racing authorities try as hard as they can to reduce falls and any injury. There are constant reviews, research. And it is world wide, not just the UK..

The horses are seen by a vet as they arrive at the racecourse.

Paul Nicholls' horse appeared to make a mistake himself and took off far too from the fence and landed on it coming down. One horse was injured on the flat. Who can predict that when a horse falls it will be injured or not.

 

[VictoriaSponge]

Of course there is, the racing authorities try as hard as they can to reduce falls and any injury. There are constant reviews, research. And it is world wide, not just the UK..

The horses are seen by a vet as they arrive at the racecourse.

Paul Nicholls' horse appeared to make a mistake himself and took off far too from the fence and landed on it coming down. One horse was injured on the flat. Who can predict that when a horse falls it will be injured or not.

In a world where we do see horses so poorly treated at the top levels, I’m not sure there is any “of course” about it.

IMO they need to promote this more, as all we hear about in the mainstream media is the deaths, not what is being done to prevent it.

 

[Janique]

I went to see my 14 years old ex jumper racer today, he lives in a herd with 25 others. He looks so fat, happy and carefree, don't think
he could have a better life tbh.

He broke down aged 7 years old after winning a lot of money in France, something like 150'000 euros in 3 1/2 years.

His nice, rich and caring owner gave the trainer 1 week to find a good home, otherwise, it would be the butcher ( yes, Swiss people do eat horses )

When people tell me that horses need a job, that they love to run and that they are treated like Kings, it makes me wonder....

I really hope that all racing will stop one day.

 

[Jenko109]

I just don't buy it.

Surely there are some very, very simple changes that could be made that would reduce deaths.

Only racing mature animals for a start.

 

[ramsaybailey]

I just don't buy it.

Surely there are some very, very simple changes that could be made that would reduce deaths.

Only racing mature animals for a start.

Agree that there must be, no one involved must care enough to make the changes though, i think the fact that the % of deaths not changing (as someone shared above) despite apparent investigatoons confirms this sadly

 

[Chianti]

Interesting; thanks for sharing.

I appreciate there is no way to have a control as to how many fatalities these reviews have prevented, but the fatality % has remained much the same for the last thirty years.

View attachment 171499

Then surely that shows that the reviews aren't doing anything to decrease the number of fatalities? And does this include the numbers who aren't killed on the course but go home with injuries that will prevent them from racing again. Then what happens to them? I used to love racing - I'd take a week off work to watch Cheltenham. I now see it for what it is. A means to make money for those involved who cry crocodile tears when a horse dies.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I used to love racing - I'd take a week off work to watch Cheltenham. I now see it for what it is. A means to make money for those involved who cry crocodile tears when a horse dies.

Are you me?

It’s not just those who’ve always detested racing, it’s those of us who used to be racing fans who are now totally sickened by it.

 

[FieldOrnaments]

There's too much money invested which the investors want to have back as profit for real change to be made (which would involve putting money in and less coming back out).

 

[Burnttoast]

Paul Nicholls' horse appeared to make a mistake himself and took off far too from the fence and landed on it coming down. One horse was injured on the flat. Who can predict that when a horse falls it will be injured or not.

If we were talking about humans, this would be called victim blaming.

We can predict that the likelihood of injury/death when presenting a horse at a reasonably solid fence at racing pace among other horses is much higher than when not doing so.

 

[TheMule]

I feel very conflicted over racing because I love seeing quality horses where a huge amount of thought has gone into producing them to perform to their very best. I love just watching horses, observing their temperaments, their conformation, their way of going and their characters. Im interested in the science that goes into training them and the little management details that improve performance and I do believe that lots of horses enjoy their job- I have an ex-racehorse and he would dearly love to be allowed to tow his rider up the gallops everyday again.
I own tiny shares in syndicate horses and visit race yards.
But, I don’t think any animal just trying its best should be put at such a high risk of serious injury or death. I don’t think we are doing the best we can to reduce the risk of these injuries and I don’t think we should continue to put them at such high risk without asking more questions

 

[ihatework]

I feel very conflicted over racing because I love seeing quality horses where a huge amount of thought has gone into producing them to perform to their very best. I love just watching horses, observing their temperaments, their conformation, their way of going and their characters. Im interested in the science that goes into training them and the little management details that improve performance and I do believe that lots of horses enjoy their job- I have an ex-racehorse and he would dearly love to be allowed to tow his rider up the gallops everyday again.
I own tiny shares in syndicate horses and visit race yards.
But, I don’t think any animal just trying its best should be put at such a high rise of serious injury or death. I don’t think we are doing the best we can to reduce the risk of these injuries and I don’t think we should continue to put them at such high risk without asking more questions

This is where I sit too. For racing and other elite horse sports

 

[daffy44]

This is where I sit too. For racing and other elite horse sports

me too

 

[Sanversera]

I'm not sure kept inside 90% of the time from being backed at a year old and fed in such a way that the vast majority have ulcers is treating them like kings.

Hear hear, exactly.

 

[Sanversera]

If the rich and famous didn't have racehorses but the working classes did it would have been banned years ago.

 

[tristars]

The one horse was on such a long stride into a hurdle the jockey was driving it on out of balance completely, it had what Alice fox Pitt called a horrible fall

Anyone could see it was unbalanced and had every chance of disaster, it was on a very very long stride.

You d o n o t d I s t u r b a h o r s e s b a l a n c e like that while galloping like you are heading for the finishing then expect it to jump a stupid visually difficult for the horse to judge hurdle

I could go on and on, but they really are brain dead, especially all the inane waffle spouted after the deaths

I turned off after 10 minutes in total disgust,

I think I read it right, at Cheltenham in 2006 , *6 * horses died in one day of a 4 day meeting?, yet here we are 20 years later still in la la land

 

[Trouper]

There was another at Fontwell yesterday, too.

I would like some practical measures at least tried to see if it makes a difference. For a start a total whip ban - if you can ride you don't need a whip. Then jockeys not allowed to start flapping arms and legs to urge a horse on until after the last fence - time and time again I see a horse unbalanced by the jockey doing this just at they are coming to the critical last couple of fences when the horses are tiring and this is just the thing to cause a horse to make a mistake. I would also like to see a lower age limit on when horses can start racing - their bone development is just not ready for the stresses and strains of racing at such young ages.

 

[TheMule]

There was another at Fontwell yesterday, too.

I would like some practical measures at least tried to see if it makes a difference. For a start a total whip ban - if you can ride you don't need a whip. Then jockeys not allowed to start flapping arms and legs to urge a horse on until after the last fence - time and time again I see a horse unbalanced by the jockey doing this just at they are coming to the critical last couple of fences when the horses are tiring and this is just the thing to cause a horse to make a mistake. I would also like to see a lower age limit on when horses can start racing - their bone development is just not ready for the stresses and strains of racing at such young ages.

I understand the points you are making, but how about flipping this round so that it's not down to subjective interpretation of how a jockey rides, but instead the race is set up to control some of these factors. For example, you could not include any fences in the final half mile when a horse is likely to be most tired- yes, it will change that last bit of the race, but should eliminate those errors when the horses are going their fastest but are also most exhausted.

 

[tristars]

No horse should be exploited until it is exhausted

The arm and leg flapping has got worse

You don't make a horse go faster by flapping your arms and legs, you confuse and distract it, and completely disturb the contact with the mouth, which we know is crucial to a racehorse

It's not as if these horse are very mature 15 yrs old with a lifetime of schooling and experience and importantly totally physically mature as horse in other disciplines

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

There was another at Fontwell yesterday, too.

I would like some practical measures at least tried to see if it makes a difference. For a start a total whip ban - if you can ride you don't need a whip. Then jockeys not allowed to start flapping arms and legs to urge a horse on until after the last fence - time and time again I see a horse unbalanced by the jockey doing this just at they are coming to the critical last couple of fences when the horses are tiring and this is just the thing to cause a horse to make a mistake. I would also like to see a lower age limit on when horses can start racing - their bone development is just not ready for the stresses and strains of racing at such young ages.

I agree there needs to be a total whip ban

I think they should be allowed to CARRY a whip, but it can only be used for safety reasons (e.g. swerving off a true line) and if it is used, the jockey should need to report to stewards to explain the reasons

There are hands and heels races and the finishes look so much more palatable

What doesnt sit well on the back of this weekend, is we also have an article that Constitution Hill (who has fallen heavily in 3 of his last 4 starts, and was lucky not to fall in the one prior) is being given a champion hurdle entry. Yet after his last fall his trainer, who i thought was one of the more horse centric ones, said about whether they can keep asking him to do this. I know an entry doesnt mean he runs, but hasn't he done enough for them, hes won some big races and given them good days, for some reason something isnt working anymore

Yet they want to keep trying, all 3 recent falls could have been fatal, they weren't just unseats/tip ups. Surely if anything happens to him at this point they will quite rightly be hammered. I imagine its the owner driving it.