Thrush in a very deep cleft

[klb]

Hi needing some help and advice from anyone that has dealt with thrush in a very deep cleft between the heel bulbs. The cleft is deep enough to get whole hoof pick down there. The fields are muddy now so the scenario is horse comes in the with the cleft full of mud, its proving difficult to get the mud out that's right at the bottom of the cleft because our mare finds it painful and kicks out at my daughter and pulls it aggresively out of her hand. Ive heard that putting the hoofs in a hoof bag and then putting white lightening in it which gets into all the cracks is a good treatment and then using field paste to keep the mud out. So im thinking do i get the vet out to sedate her and clean the cleft out properly and then soak with the white lightening and then the field paste. Just wondering if the mud would still get in and then im back to square one. Really need to find a way of treating the thrush using a long term system to give a chance for the crack to grow out and then keep on top of it from there. Would love to hear from people that have had the same problem. Thank you

 

[joosie]

My pony had severe thrush including a heel gap like you describe. He lived out 24/7 and his field was muddy too so I think you are more or less in the same situation.
Mine didn't like having mud dug out either so I also used a syringe and water to finish cleaning it out.
I soaked the feet in diluted Milton (tbh purely because it was cheaper than White Lightening!) and then packed the gaps with Red Horse Hoof Stuff. It never came out on its own even in the muddy paddock, I used to have to pull it out with tweezers. If you want something that stays in, the Field Paste probably isn't the right product, as it's really for smearing onto the sole or hoof, rather than filling a gap.

 

[twiggy2]

How old is your daughter?
I used to put salt water in a rubber feed bucket and get the horse to stand in it for at least 10 mins, do all the feet, try to use a scrubbing brush to clean cleft out rather than hoof pick, start soaking daily and then down to just once a week when the fields are wet as a preventative.
Is the mare in at night allowing the feet to dry completely?
I used sawdust or shavings as bedding as they dried the feet more effectively and also make sure the bed is very clean and dry.

 

[klb]

My pony had severe thrush including a heel gap like you describe. He lived out 24/7 and his field was muddy too so I think you are more or less in the same situation.
Mine didn't like having mud dug out either so I also used a syringe and water to finish cleaning it out.
I soaked the feet in diluted Milton (tbh purely because it was cheaper than White Lightening!) and then packed the gaps with Red Horse Hoof Stuff. It never came out on its own even in the muddy paddock, I used to have to pull it out with tweezers. If you want something that stays in, the Field Paste probably isn't the right product, as it's really for smearing onto the sole or hoof, rather than filling a gap.

My daughter is 19. we were using a syringe, my daughter was getting the tip in at the top of the heel gap but now our mare has taken a dislike to that and lifts her leg right up to her belly and then strikes it down, if my daughter tries to persist she then sometimes cow kicks, which as you imagine is getting dangerous. i broke my back a few years ago so find it hard to hold onto her leg to help. i spoke to a farrier today that was a the yard and he said to keep her in for two weeks, but if i do that then ill be back to square one as soon as she goes out again, i ideally need to get this crack to grow out somehow

 

[klb]

How old is your daughter?
I used to put salt water in a rubber feed bucket and get the horse to stand in it for at least 10 mins, do all the feet, try to use a scrubbing brush to clean cleft out rather than hoof pick, start soaking daily and then down to just once a week when the fields are wet as a preventative.
Is the mare in at night allowing the feet to dry completely?
I used sawdust or shavings as bedding as they dried the feet more effectively and also make sure the bed is very clean and dry.

does the salt water draw out the mud that is deep in the cleft, i bought a scrubbing brush that had a thinner head on it that was on a handle but it wasn't getting to the bottom of the crack and she was pulling away with that too. Her heel bulbs are really soft and she appears sore when you touch them. The farrier said its really important to keep them dry, I've bought some athletes foot powder to put on the heel bulbs to try and dry them out, it looks like the heel bulbs have rubbery layers to them

 

[Mule]

If they have to stay dry I think the best choice is to keep her in. The skin will harden up while she's off the wet/mud so it will be in better shape when she is turned out again.

You could try a soft toothbrush for the heel bulbs if she will let you use it. A great thing to kill bacteria is iodine. You could put it in a syringe and squirt it in the cleft. Iodine worked a treat when one of mine had seedy toe. Just mind you don't squirt yourself in the eye with it . . .
It's not pleasant 🙄

 

[klb]

If they have to stay dry I think the best choice is to keep her in. The skin will harden up while she's off the wet/mud so it will be in better shape when she is turned out again.

You could try a soft toothbrush for the heel bulbs if she will let you use it. A great thing to kill bacteria is iodine. You could put it in a syringe and squirt it in the cleft. Iodine worked a treat when one of mine had seedy toe. Just mind you don't squirt yourself in the eye with it . . .
It's not pleasant 🙄

thank you, its just trying to get the mud out that is deep in the heel cleft with

How old is your daughter?
I used to put salt water in a rubber feed bucket and get the horse to stand in it for at least 10 mins, do all the feet, try to use a scrubbing brush to clean cleft out rather than hoof pick, start soaking daily and then down to just once a week when the fields are wet as a preventative.
Is the mare in at night allowing the feet to dry completely?
I used sawdust or shavings as bedding as they dried the feet more effectively and also make sure the bed is very clean and dry.

Thank you, I'm not sure if she would keep her feet in a bucket she can be a right fidget when tied up if there is lots going on in the yard so thought about getting some of the soaking boots, Yes she is in of a night

 

[TPO]

Can you "floss" the cleft with a baby wipe? That's usually quite effective but gentle.

Thrush does hurt and that isn't always acknowledged.

I'd be worried about keeping her in because horses with thrush tend to stand on their dung to "cool" the soreness and burn from thrush. If she was in 24/7 its swapping one problem for another.

Will she stand in a bucket to be rubbed? Alternatively I think its shires who do a pull on sock boot with a rubber bottom to let you soak the foot.

I would soak the foot in salt water, then try to dry it (kitchen towels) and "floss" the cleft them let horse stand on dry hard floor for an hour before packing it with red horse hoof stuff. If you dont have hoof stuff to hand a nappy cream covered bit of baby wipe does a job until you can get hoof stuff.

I had a horse with chronic abscessing in a frog and heel bulb that also caused really bad thrush so I feel your pain re the kicking. He had to endure two surgeries and countless vet visits without ever getting a cure. I feel your pain with the kicking...literally.

The only sort of solution was to establish a routine. So as much as mine hated being tubbed (fed him at this point to try to get him standing still) and having his sore hoof messed with he learnt there was treats and distraction at each stage and got a bit better at letting me clean, dry and dress it. I also just needed to get better at holding on because once he managed to get his foot back it was double the work after that.

If the horse will be tubbed that's half the battle.

Be careful riding because stones will be agony on a thrushy frog and sand and irritant to a deep cleft.

 

[Kat]

If she's so sore that you can't treat the thrush I would get some oral sedative from the vet to get you over the worst safely. Once she is less uncomfortable she will be easier to treat.

I woukd soak in Milton then dry the foot and spray with iodine. Let the horse stand on concrete while the iodine dries then put a product like red horse hoof stuff on that will stay in place for a few days. That way you can probably get away with only treating every few days.

I would get her on hardstanding as much as possible. If your fields are really muddy then it might be best to keep in but you will need to keep the stable really clean and dry.

I would recommend looking at the horse's diet. Thrush can be linked with too much sugar in the diet.

It sounds as though your horse possibly has contracted heels. If so I would suggest some time out of shoes once the thrush is treated.

 

[ihatework]

I’d do exactly as TPO suggests, but probably with the use of oral sedative for the first couple of times until it hurts her less.

the hoof stuff is amazing - my horse has has deep thrushy clefts for both winters I’ve had him but last winter we kept plugged with hoof stuff and the bulk of the crack grew out. It’s at the ready for this winter!

 

[ester]

I'd soak with cleantrax, check with flossing, pack with hoof stuff.
I'd leave the hoof stuff in for 2-3 days (I've always found it has done this well even in shallow clefts) pull it out, spray with sole cleanse and repack with hoof stuff.

 

[dogatemysalad]

I generally hose through the split frog with water and then squirt with foot rot spray for sheep.

 

[klb]

I'd soak with cleantrax, check with flossing, pack with hoof stuff.
I'd leave the hoof stuff in for 2-3 days (I've always found it has done this well even in shallow clefts) pull it out, spray with sole cleanse and repack with hoof stuff.

Thank you, I did read that you can only use cleantrax if they are unshod, have you used it with shoes on??

 

[klb]

I’d do exactly as TPO suggests, but probably with the use of oral sedative for the first couple of times until it hurts her less.

the hoof stuff is amazing - my horse has has deep thrushy clefts for both winters I’ve had him but last winter we kept plugged with hoof stuff and the bulk of the crack grew out. It’s at the ready for this winter!

Thank you, can you only get an oral sedative from the vet??

 

[klb]

If she's so sore that you can't treat the thrush I would get some oral sedative from the vet to get you over the worst safely. Once she is less uncomfortable she will be easier to treat.

I woukd soak in Milton then dry the foot and spray with iodine. Let the horse stand on concrete while the iodine dries then put a product like red horse hoof stuff on that will stay in place for a few days. That way you can probably get away with only treating every few days.

I would get her on hardstanding as much as possible. If your fields are really muddy then it might be best to keep in but you will need to keep the stable really clean and dry.

I would recommend looking at the horse's diet. Thrush can be linked with too much sugar in the diet.

It sounds as though your horse possibly has contracted heels. If so I would suggest some time out of shoes once the thrush is treated.

Thank you, some good advice. Do you have to dilute the milton? to add to our thrush problem she is the dirtiest mare I've ever had, everyday i take out half her bed as there is so much wee and poo, she is on straw as i just can't afford the amount of chippings i would get through, I spoke to a farrier that was at the yard yesterday and he said the same to keep her in and then i told him how dirty she is and he said you might not gain anything then. At the moment she is on soaking pellets and molasses free happy hoof chaff with low starch and sugar but added biotin, don't give her treats and have cut out apples and carrots for the moment

 

[TPO]

What soaking pellets are you feeding?

Echo the above re taking shoes off for a while. In shoes the frog can't function like it's designed to and by default because weak and smaller. "back in the day" competition/leisure horses had their shoes pulled for at least 12wks over winter and vice versa for hunter. These days with so much available horses are shod 12mths a year with no break; the hoof needs time to recover from shoes. Preferably a minimum of 12wks to grow down nail holes. The Ferries are well known farriers up here and they wrote a very good article on this subject for Scottish Farmer/Scottish Horse a few years ago. They said they are seeing a huge increase in WLD, seedy toe, thrush and navic since year round shoeing became the norm.

 

[klb]

What soaking pellets are you feeding?

Echo the above re taking shoes off for a while. In shoes the frog can't function like it's designed to and by default because weak and smaller. "back in the day" competition/leisure horses had their shoes pulled for at least 12wks over winter and vice versa for hunter. These days with so much available horses are shod 12mths a year with no break; the hoof needs time to recover from shoes. Preferably a minimum of 12wks to grow down nail holes. The Ferries are well known farriers up here and they wrote a very good article on this subject for Scottish Farmer/Scottish Horse a few years ago. They said they are seeing a huge increase in WLD, seedy toe, thrush and navic since year round shoeing became the norm.

Thats really interesting ive got the farrier saturday ill speak to him

 

[Meowy Catkin]

The short term solutions have been discussed, but really if you want to sort this issue long term (and I have read correctly that the issue is one of contracted heels) then the heels need to be allowed to decontract.

I hope that this link is helpful for you.
http://rockleyfarm.blogspot.com/search?q=+contracted+heels

 

[Kat]

Yes dilute the milton as per the instructions

I feel your pain with the filthy bed, my mare is the same. It is difficult, have you tried wood pellets or megasorb under your shavings? Might be worth a try to keep a dry bed for her.

Regarding the feed we would need to know what pellets you are feeding. Dengie Mollasses Free products are mostly ok I think (I use their Alfa A Mollasses Free) but I am not familiar with the healthy hoof.

Biotin isn't really enough on its own to improve feet. It is one tiny part of the nutrients you need. I would suggest switching to a good all round vitamin and mineral designed to balance uk forage. Equimins Advance Complete is good and can be purchased from mainstream retailers, Forage Plus and Progressive Earth are also suitable. Getting the mineral balance right will help her feet loads.

I would really really suggest removing her shoes when the thrush is under control so her heels can decontract. It doesn't have to be permanent

 

[klb]

Yes dilute the milton as per the instructions

I feel your pain with the filthy bed, my mare is the same. It is difficult, have you tried wood pellets or megasorb under your shavings? Might be worth a try to keep a dry bed for her.

Regarding the feed we would need to know what pellets you are feeding. Dengie Mollasses Free products are mostly ok I think (I use their Alfa A Mollasses Free) but I am not familiar with the healthy hoof.

Biotin isn't really enough on its own to improve feet. It is one tiny part of the nutrients you need. I would suggest switching to a good all round vitamin and mineral designed to balance uk forage. Equimins Advance Complete is good and can be purchased from mainstream retailers, Forage Plus and Progressive Earth are also suitable. Getting the mineral balance right will help her feet loads.

I would really really suggest removing her shoes when the thrush is under control so her heels can decontract. It doesn't have to be permanent

I have just started putting pellets down which has helped a fair bit with the wet, but she is a complete pooing machine, its a regular topic of conversation on the yard. I use Allen and Page cool and collected pellets and Dengie healthy hooves chaff. I'll have a look at the Equimins. I've got the farrier monday week so ill ask him about the shoes, when ive looked at photos of contracted heels hers don't look like that, should the farrier have mentioned it to me? again ill ask him

 

[TPO]

I have just started putting pellets down which has helped a fair bit with the wet, but she is a complete pooing machine, its a regular topic of conversation on the yard. I use Allen and Page cool and collected pellets and Dengie healthy hooves chaff. I'll have a look at the Equimins. I've got the farrier monday week so ill ask him about the shoes, when ive looked at photos of contracted heels hers don't look like that, should the farrier have mentioned it to me? again ill ask him

Contracted heels are so common that a lot, not all, farriers don't even seem to notice let alone comment on them.

A lot, not all, aren't aware of the benefits of a period without shoes or how the foot should function and the effect that diet has on hooves.

There is a lot missing from the farriery curriculum about hoof health as the main focus is preparing a flat surface for a shoe and fixing the shoe on.

If you wanted to post a picture then users in here would give their opinion, but that's your call. A solar view (pic when hoof held up) and pics from the front and side on level ground and ideally crouched down and taken at the same level as the hoof are ideal.

However without seeing a picture and based in the information it does sound like if there is a deep cleft than heels have to be contracted to some degree and if the frog is weak there is also a chance that the heels are underrun but masked with shoeing.

Shoeing isn't the worst thing when dine correctly but hooves do need a break from shoes to recover. The (farrier/shoeing book) No Foot, No Horse is a good read and also emphasizes that point (it's written by a farrier). It appears to have shot up in price but you might find it cheaper in ebay or facebook https://www.amazon.co.uk/No-Foot-Ho...rse&qid=1571881744&sprefix=no+foot+no+&sr=8-1

 

[klb]

Contracted heels are so common that a lot, not all, farriers don't even seem to notice let alone comment on them.

A lot, not all, aren't aware of the benefits of a period without shoes or how the foot should function and the effect that diet has on hooves.

There is a lot missing from the farriery curriculum about hoof health as the main focus is preparing a flat surface for a shoe and fixing the shoe on.

If you wanted to post a picture then users in here would give their opinion, but that's your call. A solar view (pic when hoof held up) and pics from the front and side on level ground and ideally crouched down and taken at the same level as the hoof are ideal.

However without seeing a picture and based in the information it does sound like if there is a deep cleft than heels have to be contracted to some degree and if the frog is weak there is also a chance that the heels are underrun but masked with shoeing.

Shoeing isn't the worst thing when dine correctly but hooves do need a break from shoes to recover. The (farrier/shoeing book) No Foot, No Horse is a good read and also emphasizes that point (it's written by a farrier). It appears to have shot up in price but you might find it cheaper in ebay or facebook https://www.amazon.co.uk/No-Foot-Ho...rse&qid=1571881744&sprefix=no+foot+no+&sr=8-1

 

[klb]

thank you, ill post some photos over the next couple of days, peoples opinions would be very helpful. I have ordered the equimins, Red Horse hoof stuff and some soaking boots to try and flush out the deep areas with salt water and then some white lightening to soak her hoofs in. Farrier is due on the 4th november so going to speak to him, and then on the 11th our mare is due to see a specialist at Newmarket (separate issue but now wondering if hoofs could be contributing) so will ask he's opinion as well

 

[TPO]

Good luck with it all, I hope that you get some good news from Newmarket

 

[klb]

Good luck with it all, I hope that you get some good news from Newmarket

Thank you ill post photos and keep you all updated on her progress

 

[emfen1305]

Sorry some of this might be a repeat but my cob came to me with really bad thrush in all 4 feet due to bad shoeing and their farrier telling them not to worry. He had cracks up to his hairline in all feet and they went deeper than a hoofpick, my farrier was surprised he wasn't lame with it (though I am not convinced it didn't contribute to the feet problems we have recently discovered).

What helped initially was trimming away as much dead frog as possible to open it up and then soaking iodine in cotton wool and packing it in the crack to stop any dirt and grit getting in there and then I ordered hoof stuff from Red Horse and used that until the cracks had closed up. He is a tolerant chap so you might struggle as the Iodine will sting if they are sore. Luckily I got him at the start of summer so had the dry weather on my side but he is also wet in his stable so I deep litter on shavings and make sure I add extra bags when I need to to keep the bed dry. Now I just keep on top of them by spraying with diluted milton or apple cider vinegar and then if it turns wet or he is getting close to needing the farrier, I will use iodine as it really dries them out. I didn't notice a different barefoot or shod (he is shod in front) but make sure you have an excellent trimmer or farrier on board!

I've added some photos, these are about 6 months apart - I don't have any more up to date ones and the "after photo" is not perfect but hopefully you will see my point! Good luck!

 

[Follysmum]

The only stuff that shifted my shires deep thrush was Kevin bacons, it smells disgusting but it really works. I use red horse products once a week to keep it at bay

 

[Horses24-7]

I've been dealing with the same and this is so far working.
Scrub feet with diluted hibi scrub when bringing in so clean. Dry as much as poss with towel and leave in over night. Then before daily turnout cover thickly in silver feet hoof balm. Repeat for a few days. I saw a huge improvement. Then could just go to picking out feet well in eve and just using the balm before turnout- hope this helps

 

[klb]

Sorry some of this might be a repeat but my cob came to me with really bad thrush in all 4 feet due to bad shoeing and their farrier telling them not to worry. He had cracks up to his hairline in all feet and they went deeper than a hoofpick, my farrier was surprised he wasn't lame with it (though I am not convinced it didn't contribute to the feet problems we have recently discovered).

What helped initially was trimming away as much dead frog as possible to open it up and then soaking iodine in cotton wool and packing it in the crack to stop any dirt and grit getting in there and then I ordered hoof stuff from Red Horse and used that until the cracks had closed up. He is a tolerant chap so you might struggle as the Iodine will sting if they are sore. Luckily I got him at the start of summer so had the dry weather on my side but he is also wet in his stable so I deep litter on shavings and make sure I add extra bags when I need to to keep the bed dry. Now I just keep on top of them by spraying with diluted milton or apple cider vinegar and then if it turns wet or he is getting close to needing the farrier, I will use iodine as it really dries them out. I didn't notice a different barefoot or shod (he is shod in front) but make sure you have an excellent trimmer or farrier on board!

I've added some photos, these are about 6 months apart - I don't have any more up to date ones and the "after photo" is not perfect but hopefully you will see my point! Good luck!

View attachment 37882

thank you, what a difference in the photos, my mare looks like photo one at the mo but her frogs look worse then your cobs. the farrier is due on monday week but another farrier had a quick look and recommended we keep her in for at least a week, preferably 2 weeks. he said to soak them in salt water to help clean out any remaining mud, i bought some soaking boots but it didn't go to plan and they flew off quicker then they went on, we managed to hold her feet in a bucket for a while until her patience wore thin and the cow kicks started. I dried them off and covered her heel bulbs and frogs with athletes foot powder and then packed the deep heel cleft with hoof stuff, at arms length may i had, my daughter could get 3/4 of her finger in there. Would people recommend i keep her in or should the hoof stuff be adequate to stop the mud getting in.I am getting a little bit jittery about my farrier not sure if he is recognising it enough, I'm going to give him the benefit of doubt and if i dont think he is taking it on board enough then im going to change. Im going to get photos tomorrow. was also thinking of maybe getting the vet in to possibly sedate her so that we can make sure the clefts are properly cleaned out

 

[Red-1]

Thank you, I did read that you can only use cleantrax if they are unshod, have you used it with shoes on??

I read that, but am a maverick and did it anyway. Of course, I would never recommend going against manufacturer's instructions, but the foot stayed attached to the horse. The only disadvantage for me was that the solution couldn't get to the white line.