thrush/WLD am I doing the right thing?

[joosie]

My pony has been shod in front and barefoot behind for 2 years. In that time he has had two abscesses in his off-fore (one shallow after he stood on a nail, and one that burst out higher up) but never any other lameness and no thrush despite living out 24/7 often in wet/muddy conditions.

However we had an unusually wet July this year so his field has been boggy especially as the river that runs through it overflowed after a week of solid rain. His frogs weren't looking great so I treated for straightforward thrush and seemed to have got on top of it.

But I went away for 8 days and when I came back last weekend, he had lost his off-fore shoe and although the hoof looked undamaged from the outside, picking it up revealed quite a bad-looking foot. Not only is the frog thrushy again (quite badly) but the white line is separating too. On one side of the foot there's a worrying hole behind the hoof wall - about 2cm long, 1cm deep and just big enough to fit the tip of my finger, so quite a significant one! Another one is developing on the other side, not as wide or deep as the other one but significant enough to be of concern.

I assumed the near-fore could be in a similar condition so when the farrier came out for my mare on Tuesday I asked him to remove the other shoe as well. That foot isn't as bad at the moment and the white line looks better in general, but it's still thrushy enough to be a concern and there's a tiny bit of separation appearing on one side so I am of course concerned it will go the same way as the other one. Luckily although his hinds have a little bit of thrush in the frogs they are nowhere as bad as the fronts and the white line is looking fairly tight and healthy. Clearly his unshod feet are much healthier in general than the shod ones.

Obviously I want the shoes to stay off so that I can treat the feet properly. What I want to ask is if I am dealing with it the right way. I've heard a lot about hoof soaks but have had no luck getting him to stand with his foot in a bucket or tub, he is a stubborn git when he wants to be and 2 hours of discussing it with him got me absolutely nowhere. So I am digging all the gunk out of the holes, flushing them out with diluted Milton using a syringe to get it in as deep as possible, and also scrubbing the frogs / sole / white line thoroughly with the Milton solution and a wire brush. Then I'm using cotton wool soaked in the Milton to pack both the holes and along the collateral grooves of the frogs where the thrush has set in. Then old sock and plastic bag taped over the top to try and keep the feet dry in the field - although so far he has not kept them on for more than half a day at a time.

The farrier is back next week for other horses so will look at my pony's feet again and decide what he needs to do trimming-wise, if anything.

I hope I'm doing the right thing but I have never had to deal with WLD before and there's so much information out there about what products to use etc. I would rather hear from people who have actually been here themselves and know what works and what doesn't. For example is diluted Milton going to be strong/effective enough in this early stage of attacking the bacteria, or does it require something more potent? I read that certain products like bleach can damage healthy hoof tissue as well as killing the nasty stuff, so I thought I should avoid those but I can't work out if at this stage it would be worth the risk as the feet are in such bad condition. Also can anyone tell me what has worked for them with regards to keeping the foot clean and dry in the field - a dressing that will STAY ON a horse who is out 24/7 and walks in some wet areas. It seems that treating his feet with him in a clean dry stable would be much easier but unfortunately that isn't an option as I have nowhere to put him.

 

[Nudibranch]

If he doesnt have an abscess now I wouldnt be dressing. Just treat and turn out. Personally I like to use an iodine solution. Dilute with water. If they are bad you could try Cleantrax but you will need to soak.
How old is he? A couple of previous abscesses, recurrent thrush and stretched white line would make me suspicious of possible PPID. Also review diet. May be worth treating as laminitis prone or barefoot to improve hoof quality... decent minerals, low sugar, and have a search on here or look at the Rockley blog.
Fwiw, when turned out I find dressing with vetwrap, then a canvas hoof boot, then a couple of layers of sturdy plastic like a feed sack, then duck tape does the trick.

 

[joosie]

Thanks.
He is 5 so PPID is unlikely! I do worry about EMS though especially as he's a very good doer and I battle constantly with his weight. I wouldn't describe the thrush as "recurrent" - I've had him since he was 18 months old and the first time he ever got thrush was in July, I wouldn't say it's "come back" so much as that it never completely went away. However as he has no hard feed or supplements due to the weight factor, nutrition may well be a factor - although my mare, who also lives out and has the exact same diet as him, is barefoot and has the most fantastic rock-crunching feet and never a trace of separation or other damage. His hind feet are much healthier than his fronts and I'm sure it's being shod that has caused the fronts to be more vulnerable.

 

[missyclare]

The white line should be 1/8" wide and creamy yellow all the way around. IF its only stretched in certain places, that is the need for balanced trim. There is torque on the hoof that is pulling and it stretches the white line and then thrush...ever the opportunist, moves in. Thrush does not come along and disintegrate a healthy white line. IF the white line is wider all the way around, not yellow, but a darker/madder color, leaning towards red, then its metabolic. There is a difference and handy to know. I use this white line clue to determine if that horse should removed from the grass for awhile, long before he starts to get sore. I don't want to go there.
I wouldn't bother to soak, not in your boggy conditions. It will just make the hoof softer, creating more oxygen-depriving moisture that thrush likes to thrive on. I would get wet to get clean though, by holding it over a pail of solution and scrubbing with a long handled kitchen scrub brush, then graduating my cleaning tools to toothbrushes, Q-Tips, needle less syringes......to get down to the bottom of every crack gently, no matter how narrow. Thrush eats it way deeper into a foot and the leading edge of infection, is down at the bottom of those cracks. I use a good grease cutting dish soap and don't bother to rinse and it keeps working. Then I put the horse on shavings overnight like that to dry out and in the morning, I treat for thrush and turn out. The treatment that I use for no soaking/wet weather, is No Thrush. A very thirsty powder that creates a barrier against moisture. I once sprinkled some on my horse's back for rain rot. We were standing in the rain when I tried it. The rot cleared up immediately and the residual orange powder color stayed on his back for two weeks. That got my attention and he's out 24/7. You can also pack it into holes as well, puff it on and rub in with your finger and its got a fine tip so you can puff those cracks as well.
Fighting thrush is a war that must be fought consistently. I usually end up soaking long term, fighting bone infections and corium abscesses and the best advice that I can give you is to create a tool box of the above cleaning tools and different thrush treatments. If you stick to the same treatment all the time, it gets tired and causes more symptoms all by itself. So don't be afraid to change it up. Since caustic treatments like iodine and bleach will burn thrush out, its like starting a forest fire across the sole that leaves necrotic material behind, which attracts yeast....and we won't go there. The baddies love a low pH and all you have to do is raise that pH and thrush just goes clean away...no damage. So I also have things like vinegar, borax detergent, epsom salts, dish soap and No Thrush etc. in my tool box. The only thing that I have found to be friendly to a horse long term is honey. Getting the horse on shavings overnight for a week and you'd start to see a different hoof, but if that can't be done and if you can't be there daily for this kind of treatment, then I would suggest going with the Clean Trax to get the jump on it, but followed by continued thrush treatments. Trace minerals are also very important. Copper is a star player in hoof wall strength, protects the waxes and oils in the wall, so they can do their job and strengthens the cross-connections for a stronger hoof. Copper gives you a stronger hoof from the inside and with a healthy rain coat and stronger structure, thrush doesn't have a chance. Just a little trace mineral, but sooooo important. I believe there is copper in the No Thrush as well, which is why it got my attention like it did.
The hind feet are better developed because they've been barefoot, but they've also been better developed than the fronts from day one. The hinds are the horse's engine and they work harder. Without the miles covered in a domestic horse, the fronts won't be as developed. Add shoes and the difference in development between front and hinds increases. That's why you find more serious pathology happening in the fronts. The better development in the hinds is pretty well laughing in the face of it. Nothing can develop and get stronger in the hoof if thrush is eating it away at the same time. Hope this helps......

 

[Nudibranch]

The fronts are almost always the ones to show problems, especially when there are possible metabolic issues at play. I would still be suspicious. I had a mare who showed PPID symptoms at 7, though she did go on to live to 30, and there's a thread on here about another the same.
I'm not saying he has it but if you are already thinking about EMS then there may be something going on. Particularly if your other horse has great feet. If the thrush has never gone then that's worse than recurrent. Either way his symptoms point to something metabolic I would suspect.

 

[paddy555]

If you want to soak try a boot (davis type soaking boots) Mine is also a pig and won't stand in a bucket or be soaked with liquid poured into the boot so I put the liquid in the boot and then put the boot plus liquid on the horse. It worked and he learnt. If you cannot manage even that then put a layer of soaked foam in the bottom with the treatment on. If you try the boot approach and just pour the liquid in slowly it may be an approach he has not come across before and won't object.

If I was soaking I would use copper sulphate solution or golden hoof.

As for the rest then I wouldn't put boots, bags or anything else on the feet in the field as it will cause sweating and a lovely environment for the bugs to live in.

Presumably you have a dry area to tie up or could find one. I would scrub the feet out with salt water, get everything out of the WL with a bradawl (horse shoe nail type thing) and brush the whole foot underneath with iodine. Then leave to eat a hay net on the driest surface you can find for say 15 mins. I would do that daily for about a week. I would also try and do it for a week before the farrier comes so that the extent of the thrush in the frog can be determined and hopefully he will not need to remove too much frog.

Once you have treated the thrush and dealt with it then I don't find putting endless lotions and potions on the frog helps. The best way to keep them healthy is to ride over stones to abrade the frogs regularly.

The only other thing I have found that works for badly infected frogs is sudocrem lathered on. That however needs somewhere dry to work and dry to keep him on for a while.

Obviously I can only guess at your feet but I would guess that you are looking at the farrier putting a good roll on the walls.

Some seem able to live out on grass, be rock crunching and have no problems. Some, like yours just don't. I think ultimately you will have to consider grass restriction but if you are considering EMS can you exercise him? I would boot and pad the fronts to start with and then get as many miles into him as possible ultimately moving onto no boots as his feet improve.

 

[joosie]

If the thrush has never gone then that's worse than recurrent.

Thanks - actually I hadn't thought of it like that, but I think you're right.

Paddy and missyclare, thanks for the replies - both very helpful indeed.
Yes, I can exercise him. He's normally in light work, though he's been off for a couple of weeks with me going away and now dealing with his feet, but I will get going again. I have access to a sand school and lunge pen which hopefully will be more comfortable for his feet (he isn't lame, but he's always been a stoic little chap so I'm not assuming he's not at all sore.)

Things are starting to make sense I have to say. He is a super little jumper, quite green but genuine as anything and always puts his heart and soul into it. I have a young rider who has brought him on and done little shows with him but she wasn't available for a show back in June so I jumped him myself and he was fantastic, and enthusiastic as anything. But he did his next show at the start of August with his young rider and the round really didn't go very well at all. She got a nice forward canter between the jumps but he was then backing off the jumps themselves (which isn't normal for him) and jumping awkwardly almost from a standstill. He hadn't worked so much through July so I assumed it was a simple issue of fitness (he drops it quite quickly) but now I'm wondering if it was discomfort in his feet that was making him hesitant to jump. I actually had a practise jump on him at home two days before and he dumped me in the sand, he has never stopped with me before. I think he was trying to tell me something and I am feeling pretty bad about it now.