Time/finance management

[Miss Sin]

Good afternoon everyone! I used to be a member of this forum as a younger teenager and have just re-joined in an attempt to reconnect with the community!

Anyway, to the point. Lately I've been gently mulling over the idea of getting another horse (unfortunately the only other time I have bought my own I was going through a traumatic time in my life, and sickness leave meant no longer being able to afford him). This time round of consideration, my hours are longer and my view on the whole situation is much more realistic and much less of a daydream. From the outside it seems much more absurd that people can afford a horse on a regular/minimum wage, on top of living costs and transport etc?

So... How do you do it? How does a normal, single person afford a horse and the time input around a regular min wage job? Is it actually possible? Maybe my thoughts are further influenced by living in the South West where everything seems to be very expensive, but the more I look into it again, the more I wonder!

This is purely for the sake of conversation rather than advice (I intend to return to lessons/part loaning first for a duration whilst I consider my options)

 

[milliepops]

it depends on what you have left after your housing costs and other bills. Trying to keep a horse at livery while on a low paid job is basically what leave me financially mangled many years later because I racked up so many debts i didn't have enough spare cash really even on cheap DIY livery. could sort of manage week to week, but then random car bills etc would knock me sideways.

 

[conniegirl]

TBH the less money you have to throw at horses the more time you will have to spend with them and the more you will have to sacrifice in your life.

Most people who only get minimum wage and manage to keep horses do so on an absoloute shoe string, normally fully DIY on yards with only basic facilities. They have to sacrifice things like nights out and holidays because they can't afford a holiday and livery.

Having done it, IMO its a miserable way to do horses. you would be better off taking some time to build a bit of a career, getting off minimum wage and then looking at getting a horse. Maybe part loan/share in the mean time for your equine fix

 

[Miss Sin]

Yeah these all seem to be the conclusions I'm coming to, that it'll be an absolute sacrifice in order to have one that it would likely sour the experience! The fact it would be cheaper to have a lesson at a great facility once a week and potentially request the same horse goes through my head, but equally having had that "he's mine" feeling, its a hard one to pull away from mentally once it's drifting around in there!

 

[sherry90]

I would not be able to afford one long term on minimum wage and I’m not sure how many people do who also live away from home. I earn a decent salary and live comfortably as does my horse however I never take this for granted and could cut costs back if needed to enable me to keep him. Short term, for example if I faced redundancy, I’d happily move him to a DIY yard with no facilities or grass livery that would enable me time and finances lessened to get back on my feet, long term though this set up wouldn’t suit me or the horse. He needs regular work to keep his weight in check and although riding isn’t the be all and end all, I don’t pay a significant amount to have a ridden horse not in work (unless through injury etc) so I’d want somewhere with facilities which inevitably costs more. If/when this horse needs to retire, he couldn’t just be turned out 24/7 so again it would need to be a retirement livery set up for his needs which would cost more, so I also do have that to consider longer term.
Prices are increasing (and likely moreso with climate change) meaning the cost of keeping them is rising. Do take this into consideration when you are budgeting ?

 

[MuddyMonster]

I'm in the SE but owned horses since late teenage years/early twenties.

Being strict with what you can afford - I had back up savings (I worked from like 13/14 and was always ingrained into me to save). Yes, my friends did more in terms of lessons, competing and clinics and had more in terms of nice outfits, posh tack. But, importantly I didn't live beyond my means.

I prioritised saving where I could and set up a spreadsheet so I could see exactly where money was going, not just for horses but overall. I lived at home to save for a deposit, mainly drove on nights out with friends and lived/shopped as cheaply as possible.

I worked hard to progress my career, studying for extra qualifications and for a long time I often worked part time on top of my full time job - mainly weekend mornings mucking out on other yards but also waitressing etc.

I kept him on a cheap no frills DIY yard and mainly hacked with just the odd lesson. Pony always had everything he needed but I was strict with the extra's. If he didn't need it, we didn't get it.

Things he did need, were often sourced second hand or as cheaply as possible new.

Time wise, there were a lot of early mornings and late evenings. It did get a bit harder to juggle as I progressed in my career so I chose a yard with Assisted DIY options when I needed back up for bringing in for example so I could work late.

A sharer would have helped, financially and time wise but I didn't find the right person so at times, pony was just unfitter than I'd liked!

Still have the same pony and I've bought a house with my OH and progressed my career to earn more money - so it's entirely possible . There is more scope for 'wants' now. I'm now on part livery and I'd be lying if I said it wasn't easier, but I know I could go back to DIY if I ever needed to as I've done it before.

 

[Miss Sin]

I definitely feel like for myself the sensible option is to career focus first *before* falling in love with another one because its much easier to make these decisions from a distance rather than once in!


Off that, thoughts on what a comfortable amount of excess income/budget required would be?

 

[paddy555]

for me (I got my first at 18 and didn't even have a job at first) budget, budget, budget. Money management and then cut the budget some more. A sensible horse who doesn't require too much molly coddling helps. My first horse had a S/H saddle with a numnah, a headcollar and a hackamore bridle. No boots, no leggings of any sort. Lived on basic nuts and sugar beet and was barefoot. I had a dandy brush and possibly a body brush. I rode in jeans (still do) jodhpur boots (until he ate them) and wellies plus a Parka and a hat. One rug for winter. No fly sheets, masks or anything else. That was his wardrobe.
No holidays, no phone, our food was very basic, no alcohol or fags. Our lifestyle was very basic. To start with I didn't even have a car. My horse was my means of transport. I rode daily.

`I didn't do sensible. I waited 18 years for a horse and was willing to sacrifice everything. I now have 8 and it is no sacrifice at all. I did however have far more fun with that first horse and "poverty" than now. I am also in the SW.

 

[iknowmyvalue]

I’m certainly not on a minimum wage job, but I wouldn’t say I’m on a massive income (I’ll tell you how much I’m on over PM if you want). I can JUST about afford to keep mine on full livery after paying my rent/bills etc. But I’m lucky because if I had any big unexpected bills my parents could help me out, which makes it slightly less scary. I do have to be conservative with my other costs, and honestly I don’t know if it would be sustainable long term (I only graduated a year ago, so hopefully some career/pay progression to go!)

so basically, it’s probably possible! But you do have to accept that you’re going to have to make sacrifices in other areas to afford it.

 

[Lots of Gift Bags]

I definitely feel like for myself the sensible option is to career focus first *before* falling in love with another one because its much easier to make these decisions from a distance rather than once in!


Off that, thoughts on what a comfortable amount of excess income/budget required would be?

It really depends on what you want to do with a horse. If you want something you simply hack out a few times a week, your budget is lowest, I'd put aside around £300-£450/month for DIY minimum. Once you start low-level competing, you see costs going up and you're looking at £400-£600/month.
You will get people saying they keep their horses for less than this, but they're few and far between and I suspect they don't add up all the costs involved!

 

[Shilasdair]

There is a balance to be had between working for your future, and enjoying yourself now.

Life is to be lived enjoyed, smiled at - buy a horse.

 

[ownedbyaconnie]

It really depends on what you want to do with a horse. If you want something you simply hack out a few times a week, your budget is lowest, I'd put aside around £300-£450/month for DIY minimum. Once you start low-level competing, you see costs going up and you're looking at £400-£600/month.
You will get people saying they keep their horses for less than this, but they're few and far between and I suspect they don't add up all the costs involved!

Agree wirh these costs. I worked out my annual spend on the necessities; livery, farrier (barefoot trim), physio, saddler, dentist, jabs, feed, bedding, hay etc and I set aside £350 a month. Then in normal non covid times I probably spend an addition £200 a month on lessons, competing, buying photos etc.

but I have a no frills native pony. I do a tiny clip myself, she gets minimal feed etc.

Having horses is wonderful but it’s a big time consuming hobby that I personally would find really tough if I couldn’t afford to have regular lessons, pay for sponsored rides, buy new saddle pads and trinkets etc. But I guess it depends what you want out of it!

 

[FFAQ]

I ran up a fair bit of debt keeping my horses on a very low paid job. My horse rent was really low and so were my house bills. I didn't have a TV and was a lot slimmer!
I just got really sick of my old job as a music teacher and didn't want to sour people's learning experience by my loathing of the job, so I took out a career development loan and retrained. My new career is much better paid, although I work more hours. I am lucky enough to own my house outright these days so that really reduces the bills.
So, as others have said, I swapped less money and lots of time with the horses for more money and less time, but on the whole I would rather it this way round. I used to dread something terrible happening to the horses as I didn't even have the money to euthanise if necessary. Now I keep enough money in an ISA so that if the dreaded day comes I can do it without hesitation.
I have no idea how people manage to keep a horse on minimum wage when they are renting their own accommodation too - that must take a lot of discipline!

 

[Lipglosspukka]

When I was younger I kept horses on minimum wage. I was living with parents but still struggled to finance the running of a horse with running a car, cost of travel to work, the cheap rent I was charged at home etc and ended up wracking up a lot of debt. I should imagine there was a point where I was perhaps 15k in debt.

I've managed to work my way up the ladder at work and am now on about the national average salary, which is still not a huge amount by a long shot but I have managed to pull myself out of the debt and buy a house. It's taken many years to achieve.

Don't cripple yourself. Just find something to ride on the cheap and save your money.

 

[laura_nash]

I could only just afford to keep mine on DIY in the SW on my non-minimum wage (about national average) when we became a one wage household (OH stayed home to care for the baby). The only reason I could afford it at all was due to having no mortgage thanks to flipping houses previously which of course meant living in some real dumps and permanent building sites for years. I couldn't have flipped the houses on my own whilst caring for the horse, it was OH who did most of the work. I keep a strict tally of all outgoings so I could see that whilst I was ok week to week, over the whole year including the one-off bills that inevitably occur I was really on the edge. On minimum wage and paying rent I really don't think it would be possible, maybe just doable day to day but you would have no buffer and there are always one-off costs.

 

[Miss Sin]

Thanks for the responses! Yeah as many of you have said, it seems to be doable on an absolute shoe string and affords you absolutely no buffer. I don't have parents or a long term OH who would bail me out of any hardships either, which does lend itself to living with the anxiety of vehicle troubles, vets bills etc. I think as well having that additional budget to "go out and do things" would make a huge difference to the quality of enjoyment, it's always been something that's been of interest to me (although in my mid 20's I'm acceptant of the fact I'll never be CJD!). Its mainly been in my head as a friend offered her boy as a full loan to me but he's a 16.2hh TB so not exactly no frills!

The utmost respect for those that have done so and worked their ways through it!

@iknowmyvalue That would be great also thanks!

 

[tiahatti]

Could you be a sharer for a while?

 

[Muddywellies]

Years ago when I was single, I had to take on a second job to keep my horse as my mum read me the riot act after I went begging to her one too many times. I had a fairly well paid job, only a small mortgage for a teeny flat, but still didn't have enough money. So I worked full time 37hrs, and took on a part time job of 15hrs a week to pay for the horse. Just don't ask me how exhausted I was or how much time I got to ride ?. I honestly wouldn't recommend it.

 

[Miss Sin]

Could you be a sharer for a while?

I've been sharing/part loaning on/off for the past 4 years since my last and I'm more than likely just trying going to try find late eve lessons again, because even at 30 odd a lesson once a week it'll be still be more viable. But the reality of it is that my situation is unlikely to change drastically financially at any point in the foreseeable future and it makes the idea of ever actually owning one again properly (and living independently) seem like a pipe dream! And completely baffles me how others, particularly of my own age (early-mid 20s) or younger, manage it. It would be interesting to know what the sort of baseline income to afford a horse comfortably would be.

 

[Miss Sin]

Years ago when I was single, I had to take on a second job to keep my horse as my mum read me the riot act after I went begging to her one too many times. I had a fairly well paid job, only a small mortgage for a teeny flat, but still didn't have enough money. So I worked full time 37hrs, and took on a part time job of 15hrs a week to pay for the horse. Just don't ask me how exhausted I was or how much time I got to ride ?. I honestly wouldn't recommend it.

Thats a LOT of work and riding etc on top must have been exhausting!

 

[Muddywellies]

Thats a LOT of work and riding etc on top must have been exhausting!

That's the thing, with working 7 days a week incl evenings and weekends, I very rarely rode. I mucked out and did my jobs like greased lightening, so hardly got any quality time with the horse that I was working my socks off to keep.

 

[ihatework]

Might be unpopular , but I think it’s impossible to be fair to the horse for someone on a minimum wage. Even if you can find a cheap to keep horse and suitable grass livery to just manage the basic day to day costs, it’s the unforeseen that will knock you for six.

I would really recommend looking for a share or part loan. That will give you minimal financial commitment but hopefully more personal than riding school. It will also free up £ for regular lessons which will be really important.

 

[Muddywellies]

I've been sharing/part loaning on/off for the past 4 years since my last and I'm more than likely just trying going to try find late eve lessons again, because even at 30 odd a lesson once a week it'll be still be more viable. But the reality of it is that my situation is unlikely to change drastically financially at any point in the foreseeable future and it makes the idea of ever actually owning one again properly (and living independently) seem like a pipe dream! And completely baffles me how others, particularly of my own age (early-mid 20s) or younger, manage it. It would be interesting to know what the sort of baseline income to afford a horse comfortably would be.

It's difficult for me to give any figures as when I was doing it it was over 20 years ago. I 'think' I was earning maybe 17k or 18k, with my part time job on top of that. My mortgage was only £150 a month (a studio flat I had bought for 35k). These figures are obviously way out of date now. From what I can see, youngsters who afford it these days, mostly live at home with very few household bills to pay. Life was very hard money wise and I was very scared most of the time as I just couldn't make ends meet. I acquired the horse when I was in a long term relationship so could afford it at the time. However, I then found myself single but no matter what, despite my mum's telling off, the horse was going nowhere. Hence the second job.

 

[Miss Sin]

Might be unpopular , but I think it’s impossible to be fair to the horse for someone on a minimum wage. Even if you can find a cheap to keep horse and suitable grass livery to just manage the basic day to day costs, it’s the unforeseen that will knock you for six.

I would really recommend looking for a share or part loan. That will give you minimal financial commitment but hopefully more personal than riding school. It will also free up £ for regular lessons which will be really important.

I think I'll return to part loaning after restarting lessons for a little while, just lately got the bug to start jumping properly and I know that my skills need a LOT of work first. Thinking that maybe if I get my skills a bit more brushed up all round (as a prolific "borrower" or sharer of happy hackers, its been a while since I've had a decent lesson) I'd have more to offer an owner as a loaner and have a broader range in horses that would suit me as there seems to be very rarely any up for part loan local to me

 

[Wishfilly]

I only bought my first pony in my late 20s, because it just wasn't affordable before.

After livery, my biggest monthly outgoing is insurance which is about £90 a month- which I couldn't afford to be without because I couldn't afford a really big bill.

I also didn't want to be in the position of not being able to afford things my horse needed (e.g. a new rug)- I think it's fine to do without nice to haves, but starting from scratch and buying all the stuff you need is expensive.

Unless you live somewhere where rent is drastically cheaper than me, I just don't think it's affordable on minimum wage, I'm sorry. But then if I was on minimum wage, I'd have almost nothing left after my bills/outgoings! Don't forget on DIY you need to factor in the cost of getting there twice a day!

Personally, I would focus on trying to find a way to up your income, and then get the horse!

 

[Miss Sin]

It's difficult for me to give any figures as when I was doing it it was over 20 years ago. I 'think' I was earning maybe 17k or 18k, with my part time job on top of that. My mortgage was only £150 a month (a studio flat I had bought for 35k). These figures are obviously way out of date now. From what I can see, youngsters who afford it these days, mostly live at home with very few household bills to pay. Life was very hard money wise and I was very scared most of the time as I just couldn't make ends meet. I acquired the horse when I was in a long term relationship so could afford it at the time. However, I then found myself single but no matter what, despite my mum's telling off, the horse was going nowhere. Hence the second job.

I love that the horse remained, priorities!!

 

[Miss Sin]

I only bought my first pony in my late 20s, because it just wasn't affordable before.

After livery, my biggest monthly outgoing is insurance which is about £90 a month- which I couldn't afford to be without because I couldn't afford a really big bill.

I also didn't want to be in the position of not being able to afford things my horse needed (e.g. a new rug)- I think it's fine to do without nice to haves, but starting from scratch and buying all the stuff you need is expensive.

Unless you live somewhere where rent is drastically cheaper than me, I just don't think it's affordable on minimum wage, I'm sorry. But then if I was on minimum wage, I'd have almost nothing left after my bills/outgoings! Don't forget on DIY you need to factor in the cost of getting there twice a day!

Personally, I would focus on trying to find a way to up your income, and then get the horse!

Yeah I do think that's the best way round to work things, and potentially maybe consider the idea of saving up for a house deposit? But that seems to be very unachievable at times considering the market!

I'm currently training as a dental nurse which seems to yield an hourly wage of between 9-12/hr ish depending on experience and location, but not even sure this would be enough to be viable these days? ):

 

[sjdress]

I was on just above minimum wage and managed to afford my own horse by still living at home so very little in the way of bills, DIY livery and I also got my hay supplied by a family member so I made a huge saving there. If I’d been a house owner then I wouldn’t have afforded it.
I am now in a better paid job, but i still have to be careful about my outgoings. I got into trouble when I ended up with two horses, on DIY, it was both exhausting and left me in debt. I am now back down to one and can comfortably afford her and pay my mortgage etc. However if I get an unforeseen large bill it is a pinch for a month or two... but manageable and I have money to enjoy other things and not have to sacrifice too much! However I am still on DIY as know part livery would be out of budget.

 

[ihatework]

Yeah I do think that's the best way round to work things, and potentially maybe consider the idea of saving up for a house deposit? But that seems to be very unachievable at times considering the market!

I'm currently training as a dental nurse which seems to yield an hourly wage of between 9-12/hr ish depending on experience and location, but not even sure this would be enough to be viable these days? ):

Dental nursing is never going to be big bucks but if you are motivated to develop the career, then over time and with CPD and branching out a quick research would indicate 30k pa is achievable.

That would be fine for a horse, other outgoings dependant.

I think when you are quite young and on the bottom rung of the ladder it can seem daunting and unachievable, but it’s funny how life evolves.

Good luck ?

 

[Wishfilly]

Yeah I do think that's the best way round to work things, and potentially maybe consider the idea of saving up for a house deposit? But that seems to be very unachievable at times considering the market!

I'm currently training as a dental nurse which seems to yield an hourly wage of between 9-12/hr ish depending on experience and location, but not even sure this would be enough to be viable these days? ):

As a single person, you'll find getting a mortgage of the size you need to buy a challenge too (or at least I have). But I do think building up savings is good, as you then have a buffer for emergencies and big bills.

£12 an hour over a 40 hour week isn't loads less than I'm on (early career teacher), but my salary will increase over the next few years (hopefully), so I hope I'll have the chance to save more again in the future. But I think the upper end of that band would be viable if you were able to find somewhere cheap to live and DIY livery.