Time out for a 4 yr old - benefits or just get on with it?

[Turks]

Why do you turn away your youngsters and when?

My 4 yr old is working quite nicely. Putting on condition. Sensible but still needs to grow in to himself.

I am not heavy on him and keep his work pretty short and varied. He works 4-5x p/wk and appears settled with it all. Yes - saddle is/will be checked regularly.

He's a WB/TB, 16'2. Still a bit bum high so I'm hoping he'll crack on and grow into it! Turned 4 in June.

I hadn't thought of turning him away for a while. Am I missing something?

Thanks

 

[blackhor2e]

I think the main reason horse's are often turned away at a young age is so they mature in their heads even though they are fairly mature in their bodies, sometimes they need to just catch up in their brains

 

[Wheels]

Mine is the opposite way around to blackhorse's suggestion

He's pretty mature mentally, takes everything in his stride but physically he's not quite 'there'. We have achieved everything training wise that I wanted to achieve this year so instead of pushing him some more I've turned him away. This was also after taking advice from an equine body worker and my instructor.

 

[Pinkvboots]

I dont think its always necessary to turn youngsters away after backing, I think as long as you have good turnout out all day or out all night you can just tick him over through the winter, just some light riding mainly hacking to just keep his mind occupied, its not always practical to turn away you have to do what suits you and your horse best.

 

[twiggy2]

personally i would alway turn away

 

[MileAMinute]

I backed my guy at around 3.5yo and then turned him away last Sept-April. Best thing I ever did. We had a bit of trouble bringing him back into work (had a bit of a bucking problem!) but now we are stronger than ever and he improves every time I ride.

 

[springtime1331]

My new mare was backed as a 3 year old, worked for a few weeks then turned away until 4 weeks ago. I've rebacked her and will keep her ticking over with light work over the winter. After such a long holiday, I won't be turning her away again.

 

[pennyturner]

In your situation, with a good head on his shoulders, I would avoid schooling, which is quite hard for a still-growing youngste, and focus on rapport and confidence with light, varied hacking. He'll strengthen his balance, and learn to trust you in 'sticky' moments, without putting much pressure on physically, or boring him with circles.

 

[madlady]

I think it depends on the horse.

After I had backed my mare she didn't get turned away, she just got brought on slowly and that suited her. My stallion however was backed early on this year - just before he turned 4 - but he wasn't good at going forward, he was getting there though.

As a natural part of the summer we turned him away as everywhere I ride I would have had to go past fields of mares which I didn't think was fair on a young stallion. The fields are starting to empty now so yesterday I tacked him up and took him for a short hack - he was brilliant, forward going, not messing and seemed to really be enjoying himself so the time off has definately done him the world of good.

 

[TuscanBunnyGirl]

I think it depends on the horse. My lad was backed at 3 and was a complete nightmare and got to the stage where you could even lead him about (all checks were fine)! So turned him away from almost a year. I clambered back on come June time when he came to the UK. Haven't looked back since, he's now out SJ and dressaging and is taking it all in his stride and has turned into an ace horse. His sister on the other hand is so level headed I've been doing bits and bobs with her just fine
I think as long as you keep schooling short and sweet as well as interesting and they have time for the rest of the day to potter around being a horse..they're normally all good

 

[Clava]

The problem with the term turning away is that it means different things to different people and there is no way of knowing if the horse would have been different if it was / wasn't turned away.

 

[Turks]

I think the main reason horse's are often turned away at a young age is so they mature in their heads even though they are fairly mature in their bodies, sometimes they need to just catch up in their brains

BH My boy's pretty solid about life so I'm hoping that I can keep him ticking over and quietly developing without him realising it! He's out 24/7 in company with a top-dog to put him back in his place now and then. I think he'd get a bit bored if he wasn't worked and would happy mischief instead. Love your sig pic BTW - is that you? Impressed...

Mine is the opposite way around to blackhorse's suggestion

He's pretty mature mentally, takes everything in his stride but physically he's not quite 'there'. We have achieved everything training wise that I wanted to achieve this year so instead of pushing him some more I've turned him away. This was also after taking advice from an equine body worker and my instructor.

Wheels - That's understandable and v. restrained of you. I would find it hard to leave my boy alone even if I did think it was what he needed.

I dont think its always necessary to turn youngsters away after backing, I think as long as you have good turnout out all day or out all night you can just tick him over through the winter, just some light riding mainly hacking to just keep his mind occupied, its not always practical to turn away you have to do what suits you and your horse best.

PK - That's what I hoped. 24/7 turnout with buddies as above must press a bit of a reset button for him. I'm lucky we have farmland I can use which gives him a bit of faster work too here and there.

personally i would alway turn away

Twiggy2 - What's your reasoning please?

I backed my guy at around 3.5yo and then turned him away last Sept-April. Best thing I ever did. We had a bit of trouble bringing him back into work (had a bit of a bucking problem!) but now we are stronger than ever and he improves every time I ride.

MaM - At 3.5 I can see the point and its sounds like that was right for him. I am keen to keep my boy ticking over if nothing else to avoid the exciting bits. I could do without being catapulted here and there so I like the thought that he won't have the chance to go feral.

My new mare was backed as a 3 year old, worked for a few weeks then turned away until 4 weeks ago. I've rebacked her and will keep her ticking over with light work over the winter. After such a long holiday, I won't be turning her away again.

Springtime - perfect sense as above. All the best with her.

In your situation, with a good head on his shoulders, I would avoid schooling, which is quite hard for a still-growing youngste, and focus on rapport and confidence with light, varied hacking. He'll strengthen his balance, and learn to trust you in 'sticky' moments, without putting much pressure on physically, or boring him with circles.

PT - Thanks for this. I am starting to take him out to bits and pieces (xc schooling and local shows) just as a tag along to get some life experience. I think its helped me get to know him too by seeing him in different circumstances. He is a laid back chap so as long as he's happy I think I'll crack on. He's looking noticeably stronger now but still a way to go so I'm thinking slowly does it...

I think it depends on the horse.

After I had backed my mare she didn't get turned away, she just got brought on slowly and that suited her. My stallion however was backed early on this year - just before he turned 4 - but he wasn't good at going forward, he was getting there though.

As a natural part of the summer we turned him away as everywhere I ride I would have had to go past fields of mares which I didn't think was fair on a young stallion. The fields are starting to empty now so yesterday I tacked him up and took him for a short hack - he was brilliant, forward going, not messing and seemed to really be enjoying himself so the time off has definately done him the world of good.

ML - A bit of testosterone throws something else into the mix. I know the boys at school didn't learn much French with Madame Love teaching! I hope it goes well for them.

I think it depends on the horse. My lad was backed at 3 and was a complete nightmare and got to the stage where you could even lead him about (all checks were fine)! So turned him away from almost a year. I clambered back on come June time when he came to the UK. Haven't looked back since, he's now out SJ and dressaging and is taking it all in his stride and has turned into an ace horse. His sister on the other hand is so level headed I've been doing bits and bobs with her just fine
I think as long as you keep schooling short and sweet as well as interesting and they have time for the rest of the day to potter around being a horse..they're normally all good

TBG - That's encouraging thanks. We'll see what my boy throws at me as time goes on. I am always tempted to do too much in the school so I don't really go there for now but time is coming so I will have to be stricter with myself that the boy

The problem with the term turning away is that it means different things to different people and there is no way of knowing if the horse would have been different if it was / wasn't turned away.

Clava - Fair point! I will crack on for now cheers. I'm not sure what you mean by the first bit re meaning different things - I thought it was just shoving them in the field for a good break?

 

[Cortez]

I've always broken them at 3-ish and then kept them ticking over until they were 4 or so and ready to start more serious work. Turning away is often just an excuse for dodging a problem (although it does sometimes work!), but I'm quite dogged and would prefer to sort something out rather than throw the towel at it. As always 'though, depends on the horse and a big backward baby sometimes does benefit from going away to grow up (but then I probably wouldn't have started it at all if that was the case). I think stopping and starting and forever turning away is not going to produce a logical progression, nor train muscles properly as you are always starting again and it is impossible to progress.

 

[Wheels]

Wheels - That's understandable and v. restrained of you. I would find it hard to leave my boy alone

Lol yes I do keep looking out of the window and thinking going for a quick spin around the block would do no harm.... But I won't

One thing to pick out from Cortez' post - I agree that I would not turn away a horse of any age if there were ongoing issues. If you are having an issue then I would iron that out first and then turn away, don't just rough the horse off and turn out expecting the issue to be resolved when they come back in as I would say there's less than a 50% chance it will resolve itself.

Don't 100% agree with the logical progression and muscle theory though, I think mentally and physically they can come back stronger after a break and they can progress very quickly on their return to work. So long as muscles are conditioned correctly then there should be no ill effects physically from turning away either. The racehorses I used to work with always had at least 3 months of the year out in the field but were always brought back under a proper fitness programme and there was rarely any muscular problems.

Top class competition horses also have yearly holidays and are in tip top condition.

Once a year holiday is probably enough for most though, I would rather a proper holiday of over a month and then bring back through proper fittening work than give 4 holidays of one week at a time but they are all different

 

[Clava]

Clava - Fair point! I will crack on for now cheers. I'm not sure what you mean by the first bit re meaning different things - I thought it was just shoving them in the field for a good break?

I have heard some say they are "turning away" their horse for two weeks but it will be stabled as usual and others say they will do as you say and chuck them in a field for a good break or the whole winter. Some believe turning away means exactly that and the horse goes unhandled, others have them on full livery - that's what I mean by meaning different things

 

[bliss87]

My 4yrd old has had a break this summer, dont have the grazing for 24hr turnout so hes been out all night and in in the day with plenty of hay to keep him entertained, I was having issues with his but once id ironed that out I decided to give him a break and Im about to bring him back and star working hima gain slowly and get out and do some dressage with him

 

[TuscanBunnyGirl]

TBG - That's encouraging thanks. We'll see what my boy throws at me as time goes on. I am always tempted to do too much in the school so I don't really go there for now but time is coming so I will have to be stricter with myself that the boy

I know exactly where you're coming from! It's getting the balance between getting it right but not pushing too hard..when I brought puzzle into proper work, he was on the ball with everything and it was so tempting to stay in the school for ages just playing around with the canter and all sorts and jumping him was so much fun too, so had to keep reminding myself that he was still a baby and I normally made sure we got what we wanted right at least 3 times and then left it at that, even if it was something really simple like walk to halt, walk to trot etc Best of luck..look forward to an update x

 

[ihatework]

It's one of those things that can divide opinion!
Myself, I don't have strong views either way. It depends on the horse, the owner/rider and the facilities available as much as anything.
I suppose when working a young horse you have to be mindful of their own strengths and weaknesses - if they are mentally and/or physically able to continue working etc.

If you have a sharp but weak youngster who isn't compatible with 4 short sessions a week and would need more intensive work to be productive then you may be better turning them away until they are strong enough to take that work. Likewise, if they are strong enough but you work full time with no facilities then is deepest darkest winter the best time to be trying to produce this horse? Would they be better with your full attention come spring?

That said if you have an easy going youngster, growing evenly, that is perfectly happy to tick along then I see no harm in doing that either.

 

[BigYellowHorse]

I bought a just turned 4yo last year, he had had tack on but that was it. People I bought from said they didnt have time though have consequently bought a couple more to back and break, i think he was possibly too much of a challenge?! He was very difficult last year to work with as in getting to lunge - long reining he really took to. Anyway I started him did get on a couple of times but gut told me he wasnt there and not to push him then i need an op on my gammy leg so it all worked in nicely! So he had autumn, winter and spring off until I had finished my exams. We worked lightly over june long reining, lunging and leaning over. Then july I was on placement so he had most of that off and August I hit hard with training working him everyday for 2 weeks. Ive been on board now nearly 3 weeks and he's hackingout like he has done it a million times.

Point is if I had pushed hard last year he would have snapped (physically as well as he was still very immature) I think time off can come at different points of training and needs to accommodate the horse. I plan on keeping him ticking over the winter with hacking and perhaps get him to one or two hunt meets, even if we don't ride out it'll just be an experience.

 

[Turks]

I've always broken them at 3-ish and then kept them ticking over until they were 4 or so and ready to start more serious work. Turning away is often just an excuse for dodging a problem (although it does sometimes work!), but I'm quite dogged and would prefer to sort something out rather than throw the towel at it. As always 'though, depends on the horse and a big backward baby sometimes does benefit from going away to grow up (but then I probably wouldn't have started it at all if that was the case). I think stopping and starting and forever turning away is not going to produce a logical progression, nor train muscles properly as you are always starting again and it is impossible to progress.

Cortez - I have found that often problems that I work around rather than confront seem to sort a lot quicker than the ones I directly address so that is the approach I tend to favour now. It may say more about the quality of my efforts to train the horse but there we go. If we're on an upward curve of any kind I'll take it!

Lol yes I do keep looking out of the window and thinking going for a quick spin around the block would do no harm.... But I won't

One thing to pick out from Cortez' post - I agree that I would not turn away a horse of any age if there were ongoing issues. If you are having an issue then I would iron that out first and then turn away, don't just rough the horse off and turn out expecting the issue to be resolved when they come back in as I would say there's less than a 50% chance it will resolve itself.

Don't 100% agree with the logical progression and muscle theory though, I think mentally and physically they can come back stronger after a break and they can progress very quickly on their return to work. So long as muscles are conditioned correctly then there should be no ill effects physically from turning away either. The racehorses I used to work with always had at least 3 months of the year out in the field but were always brought back under a proper fitness programme and there was rarely any muscular problems.

Top class competition horses also have yearly holidays and are in tip top condition.

Once a year holiday is probably enough for most though, I would rather a proper holiday of over a month and then bring back through proper fittening work than give 4 holidays of one week at a time but they are all different

Wheels - Its hard to disagree with that. All the tops appear to do it and many come back stronger.

I have heard some say they are "turning away" their horse for two weeks but it will be stabled as usual and others say they will do as you say and chuck them in a field for a good break or the whole winter. Some believe turning away means exactly that and the horse goes unhandled, others have them on full livery - that's what I mean by meaning different things

Clava - makes sense now thanks. I was talking about the abandon in the field for a good while type.

My 4yrd old has had a break this summer, dont have the grazing for 24hr turnout so hes been out all night and in in the day with plenty of hay to keep him entertained, I was having issues with his but once id ironed that out I decided to give him a break and Im about to bring him back and star working hima gain slowly and get out and do some dressage with him

Bliss87 - keep us posted. Exciting times!

I know exactly where you're coming from! It's getting the balance between getting it right but not pushing too hard..when I brought puzzle into proper work, he was on the ball with everything and it was so tempting to stay in the school for ages just playing around with the canter and all sorts and jumping him was so much fun too, so had to keep reminding myself that he was still a baby and I normally made sure we got what we wanted right at least 3 times and then left it at that, even if it was something really simple like walk to halt, walk to trot etc Best of luck..look forward to an update x

TBG - cheers for that. Don't think I'll ever be brave enough to post pics but we shall see...!

It's one of those things that can divide opinion!
Myself, I don't have strong views either way. It depends on the horse, the owner/rider and the facilities available as much as anything.
I suppose when working a young horse you have to be mindful of their own strengths and weaknesses - if they are mentally and/or physically able to continue working etc.

If you have a sharp but weak youngster who isn't compatible with 4 short sessions a week and would need more intensive work to be productive then you may be better turning them away until they are strong enough to take that work. Likewise, if they are strong enough but you work full time with no facilities then is deepest darkest winter the best time to be trying to produce this horse? Would they be better with your full attention come spring?

That said if you have an easy going youngster, growing evenly, that is perfectly happy to tick along then I see no harm in doing that either.

IHW - Exactly. I need to be guided by him, bearing in mind time/facilities etc.

I bought a just turned 4yo last year, he had had tack on but that was it. People I bought from said they didnt have time though have consequently bought a couple more to back and break, i think he was possibly too much of a challenge?! He was very difficult last year to work with as in getting to lunge - long reining he really took to. Anyway I started him did get on a couple of times but gut told me he wasnt there and not to push him then i need an op on my gammy leg so it all worked in nicely! So he had autumn, winter and spring off until I had finished my exams. We worked lightly over june long reining, lunging and leaning over. Then july I was on placement so he had most of that off and August I hit hard with training working him everyday for 2 weeks. Ive been on board now nearly 3 weeks and he's hackingout like he has done it a million times.

Point is if I had pushed hard last year he would have snapped (physically as well as he was still very immature) I think time off can come at different points of training and needs to accommodate the horse. I plan on keeping him ticking over the winter with hacking and perhaps get him to one or two hunt meets, even if we don't ride out it'll just be an experience.

BYH - that's really encouraging. Hope the gammy leg's not so gammy now I had a horse that I made stale once by my determination to improve my flatwork. Poor old boy. He took it really well considering. I know that the old boy was far more tolerant than my youngster could possibly be. Keep us posted. It'll be nice to hear how he progresses.