Time to put down?

P

Poppingspine

Member
Joined
27 March 2019
Messages
19
Visit site
Hi everyone. I took on a few horses from an elderly man a couple months ago, most in RELATIVELY good health, one with sore teeth and suspected navicular (very long hooves, very hot, sore heels on all 4), caused by untreated hooves. The other horses and ponies have had their feet done and have no other health problems. This one horse had the farrier out, completely doped and almost falling, yet still managed to KICK the farrier, most likely out of pain of putting the added pressure on the other feet, but generally he isn't the best mannered horse. He could do one hoof, and the heat in that heel hasn't subsided, but I believe the pressure on the other feet as he did that one foot was too much and so he couldn't do it anymore on the other feet. On top of this hes had a dentist out who found a rather deep, painful abscess, that will need x-rays to find out how deep and if it is recoverable. He has some form of breathing problem, which is really quite difficult to explain, like hes growling when he breathes, which the dentist made me aware it certainly is not choke, but sounds more like a sore lung disease that may be unfix-able (especially as we don't know how long he has had it.) He is an extremely depressed horse due to the pain he is constantly in. He's on two bute a day and still having to really push himself just to walk around the paddock, never trotting. Upon speaking to a vet and explaining it all, they said that it is likely navicular syndrome, which could be extremely advanced as he is literally unable to trot, and that it would need to be determined with x rays or radio graphs (I can't remember exactly which thing sorry!) His entire head will need to be MRI'd to see how deep the abscess is and if it has gone into the nasal area, whether it can be fixed and perhaps if it is causing the breathing issue. On top of this, if it is navicular, this will mean completely knocking him out to the ground every 4 weeks for remedial farriery, which I genuinely think is just unfair on the horse. (He was also IV sedated by a vet for the farrier and still would not allow for a trim, stomping the foot down and trying to fall on the vet)

This is all VERY expensive, and although I didn't mind taking the horses on, I have re-homed them all except 3. I don't think I am in a position where I could afford all this for him, as heartbreaking as that is, and wondering if having him PTS is the best option? He has a "field buddy" who is quite a bit older than him but GLUED to him and I also wonder what do I do to help her if he is PTS, as I believe she will be extremely depressed and heartbroken, and I have heard of horses dying from heartbreak!

I also am TERRIFIED of making that decision because I know I will feel so guilty for putting him down, when there is a possibility of him recovering, but even if he recovers, he will still be literally knocked to the ground every 4 weeks just for remedial farriery. I personally don't believe its fair to let him be in pain like this, (or affordable for me or a rehomer!) and I am extremely stressed about what to do?!
 
It sounds like you’ve made your mind up and are just looking agreement. Of course it’s the best thing for the horse who is suffering and there isn’t the means to treat it. How youll feel afterwards doesn’t really come into it and shouldn’t stop you doing the right thing.
 
meleeka said:
It sounds like you’ve made your mind up and are just looking agreement. Of course it’s the best thing for the horse who is suffering and there isn’t the means to treat it. How youll feel afterwards doesn’t really come into it and shouldn’t stop you doing the right thing.
Click to expand...
I think I agree with you Meleeka, it is selfish to have him PTS though if something can be done, ragardless of the cost? I don't particularly want to go bankrupt, but I also don't want to spend the rest of my life feeling guilty about having a 10 year old pts
 
I agree with meleeka, it's not selfish to PTS. He's in a lot of pain, and as you said, even if he recovers from some of the stuff, if you have to knock him out every 4 weeks for his feet that's going to be hard on him. You may feel guilty initially, but you'll be doing the right thing for him.
 
albeg said:
I agree with meleeka, it's not selfish to PTS. He's in a lot of pain, and as you said, even if he recovers from some of the stuff, if you have to knock him out every 4 weeks for his feet that's going to be hard on him. You may feel guilty initially, but you'll be doing the right thing for him.
Click to expand...
Thanks albeg, I know you guys are right, it is just hard to make that decision alone so you have reassured me quite a bit. Any ideas for his best friend? Do they get over the depression and grief of a lifelong friend? Do I get her a pony and PRAY that they click? TBH I am very keen to keep her, shes very sweet natured and easy but I know she will struggle massively.
 
Poppingspine said:
Hi everyone. I took on a few horses from an elderly man a couple months ago, most in RELATIVELY good health, one with sore teeth and suspected navicular (very long hooves, very hot, sore heels on all 4), caused by untreated hooves. The other horses and ponies have had their feet done and have no other health problems. This one horse had the farrier out, completely doped and almost falling, yet still managed to KICK the farrier, most likely out of pain of putting the added pressure on the other feet, but generally he isn't the best mannered horse. He could do one hoof, and the heat in that heel hasn't subsided, but I believe the pressure on the other feet as he did that one foot was too much and so he couldn't do it anymore on the other feet. On top of this hes had a dentist out who found a rather deep, painful abscess, that will need x-rays to find out how deep and if it is recoverable. He has some form of breathing problem, which is really quite difficult to explain, like hes growling when he breathes, which the dentist made me aware it certainly is not choke, but sounds more like a sore lung disease that may be unfix-able (especially as we don't know how long he has had it.) He is an extremely depressed horse due to the pain he is constantly in. He's on two bute a day and still having to really push himself just to walk around the paddock, never trotting. Upon speaking to a vet and explaining it all, they said that it is likely navicular syndrome, which could be extremely advanced as he is literally unable to trot, and that it would need to be determined with x rays or radio graphs (I can't remember exactly which thing sorry!) His entire head will need to be MRI'd to see how deep the abscess is and if it has gone into the nasal area, whether it can be fixed and perhaps if it is causing the breathing issue. On top of this, if it is navicular, this will mean completely knocking him out to the ground every 4 weeks for remedial farriery, which I genuinely think is just unfair on the horse. (He was also IV sedated by a vet for the farrier and still would not allow for a trim, stomping the foot down and trying to fall on the vet)

This is all VERY expensive, and although I didn't mind taking the horses on, I have re-homed them all except 3. I don't think I am in a position where I could afford all this for him, as heartbreaking as that is, and wondering if having him PTS is the best option? He has a "field buddy" who is quite a bit older than him but GLUED to him and I also wonder what do I do to help her if he is PTS, as I believe she will be extremely depressed and heartbroken, and I have heard of horses dying from heartbreak!

I also am TERRIFIED of making that decision because I know I will feel so guilty for putting him down, when there is a possibility of him recovering, but even if he recovers, he will still be literally knocked to the ground every 4 weeks just for remedial farriery. I personally don't believe its fair to let him be in pain like this, (or affordable for me or a rehomer!) and I am extremely stressed about what to do?!
Click to expand...
If he is in pain on two bute a day and if there is nothing more than can be done (whether for ethical reasons or monetary reasons) then I would think you have little option other than PTS.
If you give the mare 'star of bethlehem' which is a Dr Bach remedy in her water for a few days prior and post PTS of her field mate it may help her. And I would definitely let her have sometime with his body afterwards no question about it. I know someone whose horse literally pined away after 20 plus years when his field and stable mate died and he didn't see the body to help him understand. He ran up and down the fence line calling out for weeks.

Thinking of you, its obvious to me you have his best intention at heart.
 
Poppingspine said:
Thanks albeg, I know you guys are right, it is just hard to make that decision alone so you have reassured me quite a bit. Any ideas for his best friend? Do they get over the depression and grief of a lifelong friend? Do I get her a pony and PRAY that they click? TBH I am very keen to keep her, shes very sweet natured and easy but I know she will struggle massively.
Click to expand...

It's a tough decision to have to make, he's a lucky horse to have an owner who cares so much about him and has his best interests at heart. Thinking of you.

I agree with HB on letting her see his body afterwards. Can you start giving her some time with the other horse you have (or is it that they are they all out together and she is particularly attached to him?)
 
I think it's probably kinder to the horse to let him go I would think the pain of a deep tooth abcess would be awful plus the other issues he has. I had to have my retired mare pts a few weeks ago I also have a gelding who had lived with her since a weanling I was so worried about the gelding but my husband showed him the body of my mare after she had gone and he spent about 10 mins sniffing and pushing her then stood away my husband let him stand there for some time and then took him back to the field. As far as I can see he has not pined at all which is a huge relief.
 
albeg said:
It's a tough decision to have to make, he's a lucky horse to have an owner who cares so much about him and has his best interests at heart. Thinking of you.

I agree with HB on letting her see his body afterwards. Can you start giving her some time with the other horse you have (or is it that they are they all out together and she is particularly attached to him?)
Click to expand...
Unfortunately she doesn’t get on with the other horse very well, she just wants to be alone with her friend which makes it all so much harder. I think I have a home for the other horse too but would considering buying a Shetland or very small pony to try keep her company. Maybe from a rescue centre? Perhaps even ask if I could try the pony for a couple weeks and see if they get along? I think her being in a field with a horse she can’t stand might just make her worse?
 
irishdraft said:
I think it's probably kinder to the horse to let him go I would think the pain of a deep tooth abcess would be awful plus the other issues he has. I had to have my retired mare pts a few weeks ago I also have a gelding who had lived with her since a weanling I was so worried about the gelding but my husband showed him the body of my mare after she had gone and he spent about 10 mins sniffing and pushing her then stood away my husband let him stand there for some time and then took him back to the field. As far as I can see he has not pined at all which is a huge relief.
Click to expand...
Oh wow that gives me some sort of relief. I hope it’s a similar situation here. Why do animals have to die!?
 
Poppingspine said:
Unfortunately she doesn’t get on with the other horse very well, she just wants to be alone with her friend which makes it all so much harder. I think I have a home for the other horse too but would considering buying a Shetland or very small pony to try keep her company. Maybe from a rescue centre? Perhaps even ask if I could try the pony for a couple weeks and see if they get along? I think her being in a field with a horse she can’t stand might just make her worse?
Click to expand...

I think if you have a possible home lined up for the other horse, taking on a rescue would be a good option. You might find that without her buddy she gets on better with the other horse as well.
 
Okay, I am going to book the appointment for tomorrow, day time, when the kids are at school. I still don't know what to tell them, I feel afraid of anybody "finding out" even though they obviously will. I also plan for the other horse to have a proper hour or two with the body before having my uncle dig a grave with his digger and bury him. (Struggling to even think about this, I think once I have let the mare see him and understand I will move her fields and stay with her till it's done?) But anyway, how do I book the vet appointment? I have never done this before (booked a euthanasia) and I would hate for the vet to come out (He isn't the nicest or sympathetic at all, no offence) unprepared for putting him down.. This all sounds so stupid but do I just say "Can I book for a vet to come out to put my horse to sleep tomorrow?"
 
Can I also just say thank you to every one of you. I felt so so alone in all this the last couple of days. I have not been able to talk about it with my parents or family and my non-horsey friends, you have all put me at ease. I still will inevitably feel beyond guilty for this poor boy and his best friend (maybe even more so for her after hes gone) but at least I now know that I am not alone in all this and people have to make these horrible decisions every day and it is okay. I think the fact that hes such a giant animal is not helpful as all i can think about is that digger picking him up and dropping him in a hole while the other horse cries. I am so sorry for ranting on to you all but I just feel i need to let go of what I am feeling. I have known for a few days that this is inevitable and have not slept at all for the last few days. I just pray the other horse copes.
 
Poppingspine said:
This all sounds so stupid but do I just say "Can I book for a vet to come out to put my horse to sleep tomorrow?"
Click to expand...

Tough decision for you - but it sounds like exactly the right one. Presumably the vet is aware of the issues with the horse? You do pretty much phone up (or get someone else to do it if you can't actually get the words out on the phone - it somehow gets very, very real when you have to say it out loud) but if you're worried the vet will disagree with you on site then perhaps ask to talk to them on the phone beforehand so you can get any of that out of the way in advance.

Personally once it is done and you are ready to have him buried then I wouldn't stay around and watch that bit. I've been there for the removal of other people's horses so they wouldn't have to - its not nice and if you don't have to be there then stay away.
 
SEL said:
Tough decision for you - but it sounds like exactly the right one. Presumably the vet is aware of the issues with the horse? You do pretty much phone up (or get someone else to do it if you can't actually get the words out on the phone - it somehow gets very, very real when you have to say it out loud) but if you're worried the vet will disagree with you on site then perhaps ask to talk to them on the phone beforehand so you can get any of that out of the way in advance.

Personally once it is done and you are ready to have him buried then I wouldn't stay around and watch that bit. I've been there for the removal of other people's horses so they wouldn't have to - its not nice and if you don't have to be there then stay away.
Click to expand...
Thanks SEL. Yeah, my vet knows hes having issues with plenty of things, but is the type of man to say he needs to be formally diagnosed before going any further with things, I feel like my vet is going to convince me not to have him put down but rather try more treatments and knocking him clean out for farrier etc which I just don't see as realistic. Who makes the final decision?
 
Poppingspine said:
. Who makes the final decision?
Click to expand...

You do as the owner. Any decent vet would put a horse to sleep if there’s no funds to make it better. There are worse things than death for a horse.

Just phone and say you’ve considered the horses quality of life and would like to book in for it to be pts. If they won’t do that, fine a vet that will.
 
Okay thanks everybody. I will give you an update on the outcome and the mare "buddy" after it has been done. But genuinely, thank you all so much. I feel a lot more justified in my decision now. xx
 
Poppingspine said:
I also plan for the other horse to have a proper hour or two with the body before having my uncle dig a grave with his digger and bury him. (Struggling to even think about this, I think once I have let the mare see him and understand I will move her fields and stay with her till it's done?) .
Click to expand...

Please understand that your mare might try to bite or paw at the body and this might be distressing for you to watch, but this is their way of trying to understand what has happened. I don't think they all do this, I just think some do. As SEL pointed out I also think its a good idea not to watch your boy moved by tractor, it is not a pleasant sight.

I am sure your vet will be understanding of the situation given his history and the drugs he is on now. I also second the tooth abscess thing that Irish Draft said must be a bit painful for him although I'm sure the bute will minimise any pain hugely. But it might be a nagging ache, which none of us like, chronic pain however slight can be as difficult as acute pain over a long period of time. I hope tomorrow goes the best that it possibly can for you and I will be thinking of you. You are such a caring owner. x
 
hopscotch bandit said:
Please understand that your mare might try to bite or paw at the body and this might be distressing for you to watch, but this is their way of trying to understand what has happened. I don't think they all do this, I just think some do. As SEL pointed out I also think its a good idea not to watch your boy moved by tractor, it is not a pleasant sight.

I am sure your vet will be understanding of the situation given his history and the drugs he is on now. I also second the tooth abscess thing that Irish Draft said must be a bit painful for him although I'm sure the bute will minimise any pain hugely. But it might be a nagging ache, which none of us like, chronic pain however slight can be as difficult as acute pain over a long period of time. I hope tomorrow goes the best that it possibly can for you and I will be thinking of you. You are such a caring owner. x
Click to expand...
Thank you SO much. It honestly means the world. For the mare, I am really struggling with what to do. Even when the dentist and farrier came, she had to come as well and be by his side! I am 100% going to let her see the body and take it in, as hard as it will be for both of us. I will then remove her from that field until hes buried, but after he is buried do I let her back in? I am scared that she will come back in and see that he has moved and started galloping around looking for him?
 
its quality of life that is important and it sounds like he has none at the moment and even if he could recover it will take a very long time, a question for you....if you won the lottery and had the money would you feel comfortable putting him through treatment? asking myself this question helped me when i had my cushings mare PTS as i then realised that was the only fair decision for her (not for me) .
many years ago i had an old mare PTS and she had mothered my 15 month old when i first got her and they were out in the field together all of the time. the 15 month old was 17 when i lost the old one and she didnt see the body(it wasnt done all those years ago) and the then 17 year old was quiet for about 2 weeks and then seemed to be back to normal, so try not to worry too much about the mare who will be left, if you get a rescue companion she will at least have company...
 
splashgirl45 said:
its quality of life that is important and it sounds like he has none at the moment and even if he could recover it will take a very long time, a question for you....if you won the lottery and had the money would you feel comfortable putting him through treatment? asking myself this question helped me when i had my cushings mare PTS as i then realised that was the only fair decision for her (not for me) .
many years ago i had an old mare PTS and she had mothered my 15 month old when i first got her and they were out in the field together all of the time. the 15 month old was 17 when i lost the old one and she didnt see the body(it wasnt done all those years ago) and the then 17 year old was quiet for about 2 weeks and then seemed to be back to normal, so try not to worry too much about the mare who will be left, if you get a rescue companion she will at least have company...
Click to expand...
If I won the lottery, I would still be 50/50 about going through with treatment, (due to the pain and uncomfortability he would have to go through for an indefinite outcome) and he’s would still be in pain throughout it all, i keep imagining him all better and thinking it’s right to go through with treatment, but then I go out and see him and realise that it is 100% unethical as well as unrealistic! I would only let him be “fixed” if he could be pain free within the day, which is more or less impossible, especially since bute makes more or less no difference, I often worry about how bad he would be without the bute! However he was in relatively decent spirits when I got him but seems to have gone downhill really fast, getting worse day by day. From what I know, this horse is usually VERY vibrant and energetic, even breaking out of fields on the daily. Whereas now he would barely break out of an open gate into fresh fields! I even took him to fresh grass and he ate for a few minutes and then just stopped, forcing himself to start walking back to the winter paddock to see his buddy. I feel very content in my decision now thanks to all of you and can’t thank you all enough. My main concern now is about the mare, but I will definitely be letting her see the body for as long as she needs and am happy to get her a little companion. She seems to become fat on air alone, so getting her a little pony and restricting grazing is very doable. I just hate seeing how skinny this gelding becomes day by day. But with all plans going well, he will be pain free and running with all the angel horses this time tomorrow ❤️
 
so sad for you but pleased for him, good luck tomorrow and try not to worry about the mare, she will cope but it may take a little while and a companion would be good for her. can she go in a different field after he is gone?
 
splashgirl45 said:
so sad for you but pleased for him, good luck tomorrow and try not to worry about the mare, she will cope but it may take a little while and a companion would be good for her. can she go in a different field after he is gone?
Click to expand...
Thank you so much. She can and I’m thinking that’s what I’ll do? I’m just worried as to whether she will think that he’s still alive in the original field and want to get back to see him? So maybe letting her back in after he’s buried will let her know that he’s permanently gone?
 
Hi everyone. Just back from the field, the vet put him to sleep and it wasn’t very quick and painless. The mare came and had a look from a bit of a distance and is now standing about 5 metres away, resting. The vet said she is handling it well so we shall see how she gets on. Me on the otherhand, I’m heartbroken. I’m glad he’s out of pain of course but I just wish I could’ve saved him
 
Poppingspine said:
Hi everyone. Just back from the field, the vet put him to sleep and it wasn’t very quick and painless. The mare came and had a look from a bit of a distance and is now standing about 5 metres away, resting. The vet said she is handling it well so we shall see how she gets on. Me on the otherhand, I’m heartbroken. I’m glad he’s out of pain of course but I just wish I could’ve saved him
Click to expand...

Having just read this thread I completely agree with your decision. I hope you're OK and please remember you did the best thing by the horse.

Take care.
 
You've definitely done the right thing. In fact it sounds as if it would have been selfish to keep him and try all the different treatments, money or no money - I know it doesn't make it easier though and hope you and the mare are ok now he's gone.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top