Time wasters

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levantosh

Well-Known Member
Joined
24 May 2009
Messages
562
Location
Scottish Borders
www.levantosportshorses.co.uk
Are people sick of time wasters, I have a 5 and half month old colt that someone wanted to buy off me 2 months before he was born, 2 weeks before he is due to be collected this person emailed me last night to say they didn't want him any more!!!!!!!! Are there actually people out there who genuinely want to buy horses and not just waste 7 months of someones time!
Sorry for ranting but now need to re-sell my TB x secD colt foal.
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I can understand your annoyance as I've had a lot of time wasters lately regarding a pony I'm loaning.

I agree with the above poster though, it would have been better to take a deposit and agree the sale, at least that may have covered the cost of having to advertise him again.
 
The world is full of "tyre kickers"!! I know of several people who have had the same thing happen to them. This is why I know they now change what they do. When the foal is 30 days old you insist on full payment and then get the purchaser to insure. If they really want the foal then this wont be a problem, then both parties are covered. That way you know how serious a buyer they truely are.
 
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The world is full of "tyre kickers"!! I know of several people who have had the same thing happen to them. This is why I know they now change what they do. When the foal is 30 days old you insist on full payment and then get the purchaser to insure. If they really want the foal then this wont be a problem, then both parties are covered. That way you know how serious a buyer they truely are.

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Great advise
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No genuine buyer will be put off by that
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We too have received a deposit on a youngster, had contact with buyer for several months arranging dates for a visit to view, then never heard from them again.

Some people have money to burn, as they will not be getting their deposit back
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Glad to help.

Lets put it this way. No European seller or stud will likely sell you a horse on a deposit only basis. Most want all the money up front, and the buyer is then fully responsible for anything that happens. If they get an injury its then your responsibility.

So why do we do this in the UK? Well because we are more "soft" and "trusting", and think we are doing people a "favour". However, it then turns out not to be a "favour" in the end, when they bugger you about and you are left after several months then trying to re-advertise a "supposed" sold horse.

Cruiseline you are right, in that people must have money to burn when they are willing to lose deposits.

Or another option. If you are taking a deposit, make sure it is for 2/3rds of the total price, bet your bottom dollar they wont walk away from that!
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Must admit we paid 50% deposit on ours - paid end Aug for collecting November

Personally, as a genuine buyer - not a tyre kicker - I would definitely NOT purchase from a stud where I had to pay full price up front and insure myself when I had little control over the care provided. Not saying the stud we bought from (and most studs) would not look after them but personally, I'm not trusting enough that the person would bother to ensure all cares are given - after all it's sold so they don't have to keep the animal looking perfectly saleable!
 
Timewasters are a real bugbear of mine. I have had someone recently who went as far as discussing how she wanted said foal to be transported, and then disappeared off the face of the earth!!

I am happy to take deposits on the foals (50% normally), but I insist that the buyer then insures them and pays for their keep until they pay the balance and collect the foal, which I think is a perfectly fair way of doing it.
 
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I'm not trusting enough that the person would bother to ensure all cares are given - after all it's sold so they don't have to keep the animal looking perfectly saleable!


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Any REPUTABLE stud will always put the care of their animals at the forefront of their management, so I would disagree with this one.

I see it from both points of view as a buyer and seller. However, I have always advoated that breeders are the ones who suffer the most with the loss because if something happens that is outwith their control they are the ones who suffer the financial loss. The buyer can walk away with their money and buy something else.
 
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but I insist that the buyer then insures them

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So what would happen if the worse case scenario was that something happened to the foal? Do you return the deposit, or does the buyer's insurance kick in? It is just that if you have a 50% deposit it usually means that the money is refunded should anything happen to the foal.
 
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I'm not trusting enough that the person would bother to ensure all cares are given - after all it's sold so they don't have to keep the animal looking perfectly saleable!


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Any REPUTABLE stud will always put the care of their animals at the forefront of their management, so I would disagree with this one.

I see it from both points of view as a buyer and seller. However, I have always advoated that breeders are the ones who suffer the most with the loss because if something happens that is outwith their control they are the ones who suffer the financial loss. The buyer can walk away with their money and buy something else.

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If a stud did not put the care of their stock first and foremost, then I would advise anyone not to purchase from them in the first place.

It costs a lot of money to produce foals, why would a breeder not look after their investment.
 
i had it happen several times this year, many were on the way with deposits, others were in the post!!!! then i had the perfect lady, payed half into account, and the rest when he was collected!!!! good luck on finding him a home.
 
I'd say half in advance, half on collection is a good way of doing it.

Not sure if I'd be happy handing over the full amount before the foal was even weaned
 
i wouldn't pay in full for a foal and not be able to have it home for 6 months.

yes, the foal is the breeder's investment but as soon as ownership passes over, it is then the buyer's investment and the breeder has already made the money!

i would pay a deposit of 50% but i would also need a contract to state who is responsible for vet's fees etc if there is an injury.
also if foal dies or is PTS is it left that both breeder and buyer have lost 50% of value of foal (e.g breeder keeps deposit but no further money changes hands)
or does buyer still have to pay up the other 50%?
or does breeder pay back the 50%?
 
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i wouldn't pay in full for a foal and not be able to have it home for 6 months.

yes, the foal is the breeder's investment but as soon as ownership passes over, it is then the buyer's investment and the breeder has already made the money!

i would pay a deposit of 50% but i would also need a contract to state who is responsible for vet's fees etc if there is an injury.
also if foal dies or is PTS is it left that both breeder and buyer have lost 50% of value of foal (e.g breeder keeps deposit but no further money changes hands)
or does buyer still have to pay up the other 50%?
or does breeder pay back the 50%?

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What you have stated above is why deposits dont work! If the buyer of the foal pays for it and it is fully covered by insurance what is the problem? The buyer and seller both are covered and have their money.

Is that not why horse owners have horses insured in the first place? So that they are covered "should" anything happen to the horse, whether that be on your own land, at livery or at a show? I think you will find that it is.
 
My personal view is that if you buy a foal at foot, whether through leaving a deposit or paying the full amount, then you shoudl be taking responsibility for vet bills, etc. Essentially once you pay for the foal, whether you take it home straught away or not, IMO you then own the foal and should be responsible for it. This is my view as both a breeder and a buyer. Of course the inevitable CAN happen and something can go wrong and you lose the foal but that can happen in any instance for example, you could transport the foal home and have it break a leg. The breeder has a duty of care to raise the foal to the best of their abilities however I believe that once someone has purchased a foal then whilst the breeder will continue to care for it, especially as it would still be nursing, then resonsibility for vets fees, etc should pass onto the 'owner', as with any horse at livery. Of course there would be exceptions to the rule and there should of course be a contract stating all terms in full, but if buying a foal then surely the buyer shoudl realise that whilst they are buying it, they might not necessarily be able to take it home straight away due to its age.
 
When a buyer decides they would like a particular foal, we take a 25% deposit on the foal and keep it FOC until weaning. Once weaned I like to keep the foal again FOC for two weeks, to make sure it is fully adjusted to it new style of living and has remained good in all respects to handle and the balance is payable prior to collection. If its a colt foal which is to be gelded whilst still on the mare, then the balance of payment is requested prior to the gelding.

Once a foal has a deposit paid, I then insure the foal for the full amount as should anything happen to a foal (god forbid) then I would get the insurance, from which the deposit would be returned and I would have the difference. If the potential buyer insures the foal, I would only have the deposit money so would technically be out of pocket.
 
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What you have stated above is why deposits dont work! If the buyer of the foal pays for it and it is fully covered by insurance what is the problem? The buyer and seller both are covered and have their money.

Is that not why horse owners have horses insured in the first place? So that they are covered "should" anything happen to the horse, whether that be on your own land, at livery or at a show? I think you will find that it is.

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i do understand how insurance works, thank you
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and the scenarios i laid out before were more to point out that if you are going to pay a deposit you need to get down on the receipt exactly who is responsible for what costs.

deposits work very well as long as everyone knows where they stand.
 
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and the scenarios i laid out before were more to point out that if you are going to pay a deposit you need to get down on the receipt exactly who is responsible for what costs.

deposits work very well as long as everyone knows where they stand.



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I am still not a fan of deposits, there are far too many loopholes for both parties to argue over regardless of what has been agreed.

Example - If you paid 50% of the foal and the breeder told you at the time of you doing this, that you would be liable for all vet fees (excluding anything needed for registering the foal), and that if anything happened to the foal (say for argument sake a broken leg) which led to it being PTS and that the deposit was non-returnable, would you still put down 50%?

If yes, why? If no, why?

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deposits work very well as long as everyone knows where they stand.

[/ QUOTE ] No, not always, one example being what the OP has just had happened to them, and that happens to a lot of people. "Deposits" are the "get out clauses of the century" IMO.
 
I agree a reputable stud should provide all care and has a duty of care but we've all heard of professional yards (no necessarily studs) who's 'care' leaves alot to be desired! From going to the stud for the what, 3 hrs, to view/agree to buy foal I don't personally believe you know enough about the person to entrust them
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(maybe I'm just untrusting
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We recently purchased 2 foals - agreed to buy end august and picked up mid november - paid 50% deposit at the time of sale agreement, stud paid for all care - worming/feet/vets etc - until the point we collected when we paid the remainder in full (obvoiusly
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To be honest, I don't think from OP's post it is just with foal sales, there are loads of stories on other boards re timewasting purchasers/sellers etc - I think it's the luck of the draw whether you get an honest buyer/seller as much as anything
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As a buyer of foals, sometimes in utero, I usually make a deal based on stage payments and registration in our name at weaning.

With a breeding contract we pay for the semen up front (with a live foal guarantee) and agree a price for a sound foal delivered at weaning with the breeder / mare owner.

Payment is then made by one third on a positive scan around 40 days, one third at 48 hours standing and the final third payment when the foal is weaned. After this time we will uusually keep the youngstock at livery with the breeder for a year or maybe longer.

With standing foals we use a similar 3 stage payment
Have used this model with European breeders as well as those in the UK and it works well for both ourselves and the breeder.

We expect breeders to supply a healthy foal at weaning after this time we pay all vets bills and pay for livery. Have used this method for 3 years now and it has worked well for both sides.

Good partnerships are built on trust.
 
Well this person stayed with us for 2 days and spent nearly ALL of the time with us and seeing the horse etc, even took them to the stallion he is by etc. so they had a good idea of what we did and the type of people we are. Just one of those things and I will be taking advice from everyone who has been kind enough to offer their advice I really will be taking on board everything and changing a few policies next year. Thank you all
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