Tips for a stiff, underworked Andalusian

Nici

Nici

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Hello to all!

A few times a year I get to work with a wonderful Andalusian stallion in Spain who belongs to a retired couple of family friends. He is usually a bit rusty at first because he doesn't get the training I think he needs. He used to be trained to a fairly high level when he was young. Now he's 16 but he's very fit and healthy and is happy to hack and do some simple exercises on an improvised manege. We've done some leg-yield and practiced a few prelim dressage tests.

I know that he has all this fantastic dressage knowledge locked inside of him, but I think he needs to become a bit more supple, especially on the right rein. What I have done now is ordered some side-reins, then I can use them on him next time I lunge him.
Also, I will check if there are some poles on the premises so we can do a bit of pole work and maybe pop over a few mini jump.

At the moment, I'm just following what I have learned from my BHS II, but I feel like I can do more.
Does anybody have some tips with training, please? Books, websites, your own experiences, all are welcome!
Thank you. :D
 
If he's not being worked in a 'correct' way regularly, I'd be very careful. It takes time for a horse to build up the right muscles to be able to do higher level movements - e.g. when my PRE (in Spain) went for a bootcamp, he was extremely hacking fit but the trainer said it would take a couple of months to build up his schooling muscles.

I wouldn't use side reins, but would focus on some stretching, suppling exercises either in-hand or under saddle (whichever you are more comfortable with). If you can get him stretching and a little looser you may be able to play with some higher level movements but keep the sessions very short. Otherwise it's like a couch potato heading straight to the gym and lifting heavy weights.
 
j1ffy said:
If he's not being worked in a 'correct' way regularly, I'd be very careful. It takes time for a horse to build up the right muscles to be able to do higher level movements - e.g. when my PRE (in Spain) went for a bootcamp, he was extremely hacking fit but the trainer said it would take a couple of months to build up his schooling muscles.

I wouldn't use side reins, but would focus on some stretching, suppling exercises either in-hand or under saddle (whichever you are more comfortable with). If you can get him stretching and a little looser you may be able to play with some higher level movements but keep the sessions very short. Otherwise it's like a couch potato heading straight to the gym and lifting heavy weights.
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This.
 
I wouldn't lunge a horse that was stiff it's to hard on the joints I would just focus on riding making sure you give him plenty of warm up before going up a gear, some lateral work may help the stiffness or it may make it worse it just depends on why his stiff so it's a bit of trial and error.
 
Thank you very much j1ffy! Taking it slow is the way to go.
I'll continue without the side reins then, perhaps I can use them when he's already gained some flexibility.
Lunging per se seems to be a good activity for him.
 
Wow, lucky you going to Spain to ride a lovely horse! One of my Spanish horses is also 16 this year and was appallingly stiff (and pretty p***ed off) when I got him from a bad situation in a local riding school. It took a long time to get him supple and forward again, so taking it slowly is a good idea.

Very likely if the horse was trained in Spain then the "BHS way" will mean nothing to him anyway; is there a local (Spanish) riding instructor that you can get some lessons with?
 
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I took some video of my stiff, older dressage horse today, with a nice, quiet, but not hugely dresage-savvy rider on him, He is also hacking fit, but hasn't done much in the school for a few years, due to ongoing leg problems, so the work he's doing is pretty appropriate for your guy too
I'm getting her to do lots of circuits of the school on the buckle end of the reins, just quietly asking him to go forward in a steady rhythm, not worrying about where his head is. He's responded very well to this tactic, and is ready to start doing a little bit more now. It's taken about a month of doing this three times a week to get to the stage where I'm comfortable with asking him to work harder.
[video=youtube_share;x1FKom1QK8E]https://youtu.be/x1FKom1QK8E[/video]
 
Auslander said:
I took some video of my stiff, older dressage horse today, with a nice, quiet, but not hugely dresage-savvy rider on him, He is also hacking fit, but hasn't done much in the school for a few years, due to ongoing leg problems, so the work he's doing is pretty appropriate for your guy too
I'm getting her to do lots of circuits of the school on the buckle end of the reins, just quietly asking him to go forward in a steady rhythm, not worrying about where his head is. He's responded very well to this tactic, and is ready to start doing a little bit more now. It's taken about a month of doing this three times a week to get to the stage where I'm comfortable with asking him to work harder.
[video=youtube_share;x1FKom1QK8E]https://youtu.be/x1FKom1QK8E[/video]
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Wish more people would ride their horses like this , so important any age to do this and lovely to see
 
Cortez said:
....but perhaps not the best thing for a Spanish horse who will possibly have been ridden collected for most of his life?
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That's interesting - because this horse has been ridden in collection most of his life, and his default is curl up and get short and high in the neck. It's been quite hard to get him to work like this, but it has immeasurably improved his softness, suppleness, and tendency to curl up. I'd be really interested in a bit more info from you about why it wouldn't necessarily be a good thing for a Spanish horse?
 
Cortez said:
....but perhaps not the best thing for a Spanish horse who will possibly have been ridden collected for most of his life?
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i was lucky enough to spend a week in Jerez some years ago, and haunted the Spanish Riding School there, watching them schooling the stallions. Nearly all were ridden the same as the video outside, before going in to practice the more collected movements. if you had seen some of them outside, they looked like dobbins, but transformed once "picked up" and put onto the aids. it was very interesting to watch.
 
Auslander said:
That's interesting - because this horse has been ridden in collection most of his life, and his default is curl up and get short and high in the neck. It's been quite hard to get him to work like this, but it has immeasurably improved his softness, suppleness, and tendency to curl up. I'd be really interested in a bit more info from you about why it wouldn't necessarily be a good thing for a Spanish horse?
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It's not that it's necessarily a bad thing for a Spanish horse (but sometimes is...see parenthetical note below*), but it might be a bad thing on the first go for one which has not been ridden on a loose rein previously. There's stretching, and then there's dumping a horse on its' forehand and leaving it there so that it gets more and more unbalanced as it goes along. Putting the neck out and low in itself is not suppleness; it is the transition from stretching and then back up to carrying that is the beneficial exercise.

*Horses which are built very uphill and tall in the neck, such as Friesians & some Spanish, should not, IMO & experience, be made to go with their necks in an unnaturally low (for them) position as it makes them uneasy, unbalanced and unable to use their backs in the way that is best for them. FWIW I don't particularly like the way your bay horse is going in that video, he doesn't look balanced or using himself well.
 
My Spanish is quite happy to be picked up and stretched, but he did not come from Spain.
Gerd hesschmann book is worth a read he very much works on stretch , pick up etc .
As for the Spanish horse your riding, just remember his muscles will be contracted and not used to being stretched, so stretching in hand on the ground may work better .
 
Cortez said:
It's not that it's necessarily a bad thing for a Spanish horse (but sometimes is...see parenthetical note below*), but it might be a bad thing on the first go for one which has not been ridden on a loose rein previously. There's stretching, and then there's dumping a horse on its' forehand and leaving it there so that it gets more and more unbalanced as it goes along. Putting the neck out and low in itself is not suppleness; it is the transition from stretching and then back up to carrying that is the beneficial exercise.

*Horses which are built very uphill and tall in the neck, such as Friesians & some Spanish, should not, IMO & experience, be made to go with their necks in an unnaturally low (for them) position as it makes them uneasy, unbalanced and unable to use their backs in the way that is best for them. FWIW I don't particularly like the way your bay horse is going in that video, he doesn't look balanced or using himself well.
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My horse is 20 years old, has severe hock arthritis, and other issues, and is not currently any more than hacking fit. Considering that he was very nearly put to sleep a few years ago as he was so lame, I don't really have an issue with how he's going!
 
Sags_Deer said:
Gerd Heuschmann book is worth a read he very much works on stretch , pick up etc .
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Not just in his book - he often has riders in training work horses on the buckle in trot and canter to get the neck out and the back up.

I've never seen him teach a PRE though. I think there may be a sizeable rift between his school and that of the Iberian peninsula... That's not to say that some of each school might not be beneficial to any horse though.
 
Auslander said:
My horse is 20 years old, has severe hock arthritis, and other issues, and is not currently any more than hacking fit. Considering that he was very nearly put to sleep a few years ago as he was so lame, I don't really have an issue with how he's going!
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I wasn't intending to insult your dear old horse, just observing that as an example of what stretching should look like, it isn't great for a first go on a horse which may not have been asked to go that way before. I don't know how experienced the OP is, which is why I suggest she gets a local instructor to show her the way. Peace.
 
Pinkvboots said:
I wouldn't lunge a horse that was stiff it's to hard on the joints I would just focus on riding making sure you give him plenty of warm up before going up a gear, some lateral work may help the stiffness or it may make it worse it just depends on why his stiff so it's a bit of trial and error.
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Just saw your post, Pinkvboots! Might bandages help, instead of boots, do you think? His right side seems to do better after a bit of a lunge.
 
Cortez said:
[...], it isn't great for a first go on a horse which may not have been asked to go that way before. I don't know how experienced the OP is, which is why I suggest she gets a local instructor to show her the way. Peace.
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It's really a far-off village 1.5 hours north of Barcelona and I couldn't track anybody who was willing to travel for a reasonable fee.
Ironically, there was an exceptionally good trainer from Germany who went there on a social visit and had a look at the Andalusian at the same time.
Since her horses are so well-disciplined (very German Oldenburgs and Holsteins), she held the reins a bit too short, to which the poor old boy reacted quite badly. He now hides from her whenever she visits. :D
He lets me ride him because I seem to hold the reins less rigidly, maybe because I've done a fair bit of riding on Argentine Criollos, but my guess is as good as yours as to why he lets me work with him.
Though as for my ability, this is the first time I actually ride a private horse outside of a riding school or hack, so I've been very spoiled with horses until now. I did reach my stage II, but sadly not as a working pupil, I bet that would have been awesome!
 
I have a few pictures here, thought I'd share them with you:

Here I'm out to catch him.
IMG_6058.JPG


There he's very interested in something.
IMG_7466.JPG


And there's the first time I rode him. I was very, very gentle with his mouth after I heard about the German trainer.
IMG_4287.JPG
 
Have you done any lateral work with him op? A simple leg yield can be used quite effectively to stretch progressively. So start with a leg yield up to the bit, then gradually lengthening the rein and increasing the counter bend to yet the back working and sides stretching.
Sounds a great horse to have an opportunity to ride - enjoy!
 
Nici said:
I have a few pictures here, thought I'd share them with you:

Here I'm out to catch him.
IMG_6058.JPG


There he's very interested in something.
IMG_7466.JPG


And there's the first time I rode him. I was very, very gentle with his mouth after I heard about the German trainer.
IMG_4287.JPG
Click to expand...

Can't see your photos, unfortunately. Not surprised re the German rider; PRE's don't do well with rigid riders ;-) The best thing to help with older, stiffer horses (of any nationality.....) is lots of soft transitions, walk-halt, walk-trot, halt-trot, that sort of thing, leg yield, renvers/travers, spiralling in and out at trot, etc.

Just bumbling about on a loose rein will not promote suppleness, so that's not the answer (neither is grabbing him into a tight frame, as you have heard), but a proper friendly contact will help him to balance, bend and hold himself efficiently. If he's been properly trained then he will know "stuff", but you will need experienced eyes on the ground to help you uncover it.
 
If he is not being ridden regularly he will be stiff so use all the supplying exercises you've learnt. Circles, loop, serpentines, changes of rein. Also transitions between paces and within the.

Personally I have no problem with lunging with side reins so long as they are the right length, so that he is able to stretch, they are a great way to improve the quality of work as you can use them to give the horse half halts.
 
DabDab said:
Have you done any lateral work with him op? A simple leg yield can be used quite effectively to stretch progressively. So start with a leg yield up to the bit, then gradually lengthening the rein and increasing the counter bend to yet the back working and sides stretching.
Sounds a great horse to have an opportunity to ride - enjoy!
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He's very good on the left rein, still have some work to do on his right rein, thank you for the tip for increasing the counter bend!
 
Tnavas said:
If he is not being ridden regularly he will be stiff so use all the supplying exercises you've learnt. Circles, loop, serpentines, changes of rein. Also transitions between paces and within the.

Personally I have no problem with lunging with side reins so long as they are the right length, so that he is able to stretch, they are a great way to improve the quality of work as you can use them to give the horse half halts.
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Thank you! Oh, I love a good serpentine! There's also a nice exercise I've learned where you do sitting trot on a circle using outside flexion, then leg-yield to increase the circle in rising trot. It worked great with the school horses! I will give that a try.
 
Cortez said:
Can't see your photos, unfortunately. Not surprised re the German rider; PRE's don't do well with rigid riders ;-) The best thing to help with older, stiffer horses (of any nationality.....) is lots of soft transitions, walk-halt, walk-trot, halt-trot, that sort of thing, leg yield, renvers/travers, spiralling in and out at trot, etc.

Just bumbling about on a loose rein will not promote suppleness, so that's not the answer (neither is grabbing him into a tight frame, as you have heard), but a proper friendly contact will help him to balance, bend and hold himself efficiently. If he's been properly trained then he will know "stuff", but you will need experienced eyes on the ground to help you uncover it.
Click to expand...

Oh dear, you're right. I'll send the links instead:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/u6dpd4dz867sv5i/IMG_6058.JPG?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4vf9dgcfqzljytg/IMG_7466.JPG?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ch16no3xg3g1dsp/IMG_4287.JPG?dl=0

And thank you for all your tips!
 
If it's any help, I have a 16 yo Connie who did practically nothing last year as she didn't come home to me in the state in which I had left her. She's an ex broodmare and in 2015 we were winning at Novice and about to make the step up to Ele, doing some Medium stuff at home. I moved up North and as soon as funds were available, she was to come with me. During the interim she was ridden by her owner's daughter-in-law - whom I subsequently found out hated flatwork, 'so we worked on jumping, you know we cleared 1.20' - apparently 5 days a week for three months. When she finally came home she was stiff as a board and God knows where her canter went because she couldn't even canter a circle without falling out of the front door. She was also intermittently lame in front. So I took her shoes off and rehabbed her very slowly and she spent summer teaching my son to ride. Anyway, back on it this year as she seems to be so very much happier in herself if a little stiff on occasion.

I have found doing the 'horsey yoga' exercises on here: http://www.horsetalk.co.nz/2015/02/04/help-horse-kissing-spine-goodbye/#axzz3c2UNO51o in our 20 minute warm up and it has made a huge difference to her way of going. Conscious that her hocks may be a little stiff I do loads of walking stuff and a bit of loose rein trotting before hand. What I find incredible is that whatever 'unkinking' it has done, it has enabled her to do a stretchy trot like never before after just 5 sessions. And she dropped her head on the turns the second session. It's quite obvious she's still very stiff down her right hand side (and that hoof has significant flare) but it's lovely to feel the 'lift' again.
 
HeresHoping, thank you for the link, that's an really interesting article.
Horse yoga is a very fun idea, I'm all for doing a bit of yoga with a horse!
So glad that your Connie is doing better now! Flatwork is so rewarding, what a shame that the girl didn't do any with your horse. :(
 
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