Tips for checking saddle fit!

[Jingleballs]

I currently have a Thorowgood T4 Cob saddle on loan for a few days and I'd like some advice on checking the fit.

I'm ok when it comes to identifying obvious problems i.e too narrow/wide, tipping up at back, slipping etc but this one seems a really good fit so it's the less obvious things I need to check like identifying possible pressure points and making sure it's not too tight across the withers/shoulder.

I'll try and take some pictures later but any advice on checking would really help me!

Thanks in advance!

K x

 

[Darkly_Dreaming_Dex]

try putting loads of talc under the saddle with no numnah and ride in it for around 30 mins- its amazing when you remove the saddle as it leaves deposits around problem areas.

 

[xxcharlottexx]

This is what saddler told me to look out for when fitting my new saddle and to continue checking it myself....

first put saddle on without a numnah then hop on

first put your fingers at the pommel under either side of the gullet, (under the padded bits which are touching the horse) here you should feel a slight pressure which is even... ie the amount of pressure should not alter and if pressure is hurting your fingers it is hurting your horse!

Next put your fingers under the back of the seat... this time you should feel pressure slightly more than in front but should still not be hurting your fingers and this time the amount of pressure should vary slightly, getting softer and harder as the horse moves

then you need to put your hand under the middle of the seat (where the saddle flaps are) so you are touching the middle of the cushioned parts either side of the gullet. now you should be feeling a slight pressure (similar to when you fingers were on the front) and pressure should be constant

incase i didnt make it very clear all of the above should be done whilst the horse is in walk/moving.

then get someone to watch you trot and the seat/back of the saddle should not be bouncing ontop of the horses back

if you need me to explain some of the places you should be checking in better english just let me know! (sorry i am rubbish at explaining things, its very simple to do on your horse but much harder trying to explain!)

 

[Jingleballs]

[ QUOTE ]
try putting loads of talc under the saddle with no numnah and ride in it for around 30 mins- its amazing when you remove the saddle as it leaves deposits around problem areas.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unfortunately it's a synthetic saddle with suede panels - not sure if I'd manage to clean the talc off!!

 

[Jingleballs]

[ QUOTE ]
This is what saddler told me to look out for when fitting my new saddle and to continue checking it myself....

first put saddle on without a numnah then hop on

first put your fingers at the pommel under either side of the gullet, (under the padded bits which are touching the horse) here you should feel a slight pressure which is even... ie the amount of pressure should not alter and if pressure is hurting your fingers it is hurting your horse!

Next put your fingers under the back of the seat... this time you should feel pressure slightly more than in front but should still not be hurting your fingers and this time the amount of pressure should vary slightly, getting softer and harder as the horse moves

then you need to put your hand under the middle of the seat (where the saddle flaps are) so you are touching the middle of the cushioned parts either side of the gullet. now you should be feeling a slight pressure (similar to when you fingers were on the front) and pressure should be constant

incase i didnt make it very clear all of the above should be done whilst the horse is in walk/moving.

then get someone to watch you trot and the seat/back of the saddle should not be bouncing ontop of the horses back

if you need me to explain some of the places you should be checking in better english just let me know! (sorry i am rubbish at explaining things, its very simple to do on your horse but much harder trying to explain!)

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for taking the time to type that out - I'm going to print it up and try it tonight! It sounds like the most difficult bit is going to be checking the middle of the saddle as the flaps will probably get in the way a bit!

I think I'm just worried about having too much pressure but at the same time knowing there needs to be a certain level otherwise the saddle does not fit and will slip!

 

[xxcharlottexx]

quick diagram as description is shockingly bad!

 

[ElvisandTilly]

Thorowgood website has a good download that shows you how to fit their saddles and how to measure up for your fit in the saddle.

 

[Kallibear]

I sent this it someone one a while ago, so hopefully it should help - have editted it to be more relevant to Casper-type horses.

Check the saddle over!

Even brand new saddles can be badly made and asymmetrical. Check for tree straightness (sight down the tree from the cantle/pommel and check the back of the seat is at right angles to the line from pommel to cantle, and the line from top of the pommel to middle of the cantle is perfectly straight). Also check the head/points haven't rotated across the twist of the tree. The tree should basically be totally straight and symmetrical. Also check it's not broken! (squeeze front and back together - it should have a little give in it, but it should be symmetrical (not twist to on side as you squeeze) and no grating.

The panels should be stitched in evenly, both at the front and at the back. Check the front of the panels are the same height (they often start higher on one side than the other, when viewed from in front). The panels should be symmetrical and even all the way along the gullet and they should be even when viewed from behind, both in distance (being squint is common) and in size (one often a different shape or size).

The flocking should have no lumps or holes (run you hand firmly down both sides), should be soft and giving and should be evenly stuffed both sides.

Girth straps should be on evenly - turn the saddle over, let the flaps fall open and pull the first girth straps on both sides out taut. They should be the exact same distance back and the saddle should not twist to one side when you pull them out taut and lift it off the ground a little.

All the above (squint girth, squint panel size/position/shape) lead to a twisted tree, and causes the saddle to slip to one side.

Check the width

Place the saddle in the correct position. Look at saddle from the front, down the shoulder. The points of the tree should match his back well where they sit - they should be parallel:

The points of the tree are pretty easy to see in Throwgoods so easy to asses.

Pink's thorowgood, a good match:

And a wintec on someone else horses, showing how her back and saddle don't match up:

With the saddle not girthed, run your hand down under the points, feeling for pressure. It should be even pressure from the top where it starts to touch his back, to where the points end. Too wide has more pressure at the top – too narrow has more pressure at the bottom

Wither clearance:

There should be clearance all the way along but the actual height doesn't matter - it's the width and balance that matters. Height depends on his wither profile. The bit that matters more, esp with wide-spine-d cobs, is the lateral (side to side) spine clearance. The panel should not be pressing inwards on the spine at any point. This includes at the front (the panels can sometimes to stitched in too high/overflocked so the inside top edge pressed on the spine) and all the way down the gullet (look down the gullet as best as possible) - if the gullet it too narrow or the panels to squared off, they can press inwards on the spine.

Balance:

Stand his square and level, take a step back and decide where the lowest point of the saddle is - it should be half way along. The pommel will be lower than the cantle but how much depends on saddle design. It's where the saddle will make you sit that you're interested in.

This is a well balanced saddle:

This is an appalling balance (this saddle was 'fitted' by a professional just two weeks before

) - Green line shows 'level', green arrow shows where it will mame you sit and red shows where you SHOULD sit.

Bridge/rock

And the picture tilled to make the saddle balanced - look at the angle of the wall behind!

Taking a picture with him standing, flat and level, then using the computer to rotate it to check is very effective.

Length:

Place the saddle so it's behind his shoulder (do some prodding and poking to find the back edge of his scapula). Ideally it should be about a hand between the edge of the scapula and the points of the tree (don't worry too much about the knee rolls/flap) but it will prob be a little less with a cob. The tree points should NOT be touching his scapula Shoogle the saddle about to see where it WANTS to sit too.

Poke about to find the last rib (start low down and follow it up and forwards (curves forwards significantly) to his spine, then guess when you loose it) - the saddle should not be sitting behind that, although it can sit on it.

Rocking/bridging:

This is hard to judge. The panels should be in even contact all the way along, side to side and front to back. The saddle should not rock AT ALL when fingers are placed pommel and cantle and pressed down alternatively. His back muscle should give and the saddle will sink, but it should not rock up off his back. When it rocks, the back lifts when the front is pressed. It is something you have to decide for yourself though – how much will the saddle rock up at the back when you girth up or stand up and down in the stirrups? All saddles with forward set stirrups (like thorowgoods) will to some extent, but it should be minor. What you don’t want though is there being too much pressure under the middle of the saddle, with the tree being too curved.

This is what you do NOT want!

Bridging is harder to decide on as you can't 'see' anything. Stand at his side and slide you hand up under the flaps, trying to lift the saddle as little as possible. Run your hand down the panels from front to back, checking the pressure is the same all the way down. I would be surprised if bridges, as he'll be fairly flat. You can have it easily adjusted with a little more flocking in the middle if you do think it bridges a bit.

View from behind

The panels should match the backs slope without digging in either in the middle (panels too rounded) or the outside edge (panels too sloped). They should clear his spine totally (thorowgoods are renound for narrow channels) and the panels should have a decent surface area but not 'hang' off the edges where he starts to slope down to his belly.

This is a picture of how they should NOT fit - notice how narrow the panels are and how little of them actually touches her back. The gullet is only just wide enough (also note they are slightly uneven)

(this is the reason I got rid of the saddle - in this picture the saddle has flair in it, so the panels were extremely soft and mould down onto her back, and spread out a bit. It still wasn't happy with it though)

Do bear in mind that they need to bed down. They will flatten out and spread outwards, so any 'rounding' will disappear unless significant. Too much slope, tiny narrow panels or a way too narrow gullet won't.

Girthing

Place the saddle where it wants to sit naturally (hopefully that's where it SHOULD sit). Look at him from the side and decide where the girth wants to sit. In some horses (esp fat horses with big bellys) it's right up under the elbows, giving them a 'forward girth groove'.

It was a serious problem with Tia (a Casper-like) - she has huge shoulder (so saddle needs to sit right back), on the forehand (saddle slid forwards) and a very forwards girth groove. When the girth wanted to sit, and where the girth straps freely hung when the saddle was correctly positioned was a good 1ft different.

This is what her saddle wanted to do - slide right up her shoulder: it's trying to find the smaller circumference about the horse.

This is it with the girth rearranged (using a girth donut) - saddle where it SHOULD sit (in fact, it could do with being a couple of inches futher back, but that was never going to happen), with the girth straps coming right out the front, reducing the pull on the saddle.

And so Kalli doesn't feel left out - she's easy to girth - where the girth straps hang with the saddle correctly positioned matched exactly where the girth wants to sit :grins:

If it’s a Cob saddle, you can use different girth straps the try to help – using the point (first) strap means the pull of the girth is less. Using the balance (back) strap will keep the back down a bit but will drag the saddle forwards.

Ride in it!

Then you need to tack up and ride. Girth up and check it doesn't cause the saddle to bounce up at the back.

Put someone else on (so you can see!) and have them walk about.

You are looking for: slipping (forwards, back or to one side) and for bouncing up at the back.

Watch them in walk, trot and canter. The back of the saddle will lift a little when they stand in the stirrups but it shouldn't rock - the front should not dip and lift. The less the better but any saddle will do it. You need to decided how much is acceptable.

His behavior won't tell you a huge amount if he's stoic. If he makes a huge fuss and tried to chuck the rider off, it's obvious. But moving more freely doesn't tell you anything other than it's pressure points (if any) are different from the last saddle. He'll think 'yey, those sore bits don't hurt any more' but it'll take a while for new sore bits to build up. Continuing to move freely after 3weeks is what you're looking for!

Then get on yourself and see what you think. Do you feel tipped up front or back? Do it slide. Ride for 20mins normal riding (unless you think the fits terrible!) to give it time to bed

Reassess,:

Get off and look again at saddle position - has it slid forwards? Has it dropped at the front? Have the panels moulded at the back a bit more.

Sore patches (poke his back before and after) on his back are Bad, but dirt patterns are near impossible to interoperate correctly.

Give it a couple of days of proper riding, reassess and decide what you want to do.

Bear in mind that thorowgoods bed down really quickly and needs their flocking, esp at the front, topped up within the first couple of months, plus go lumpy pretty quickly. Once you're happy with the fit, and the flocking’s worn a bit, it may be worth getting it totally reflocked with proper white wool.

Good luck with it. It's not rocket science but does take skill, knowledge and practice.