To buy...or not to buy...'dis is 'de question?!

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BEUnderTheInfluence

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:confused:Right....:rolleyes:

Well, I'm moving to an event yard in November as a WP, I am currently shopping pretty frantically for something to take!

Criteria I have is:
4-6 (would only buy as old as six if it was really really awesome, truth is I can't afford a nice 6yr old)
TB/WB/ISH - (that narrows it down..:p)
15.3 - 17.1 ....umm...ish
Preferably done as little as possible!

MUST HAVE -
Excellent feet
Positive outlook
4 legs (pref in each corner...)

So Friday, with this in mind and after hours of painstaking, ruthless scouring of said internet...we set off to look at two.

I'll talk about the last one first...
Walked onto yard (dealer) and was shown the creature in question. I swear it was about 17.3 rather than ''only just 17.0" - I'm 5'7 and couldn't see over its withers! - unshod, feet splayed, cracked and came in an array of amusing shapes and were roughly the size of dinner plates.

Didn't ask to see it under saddle after the man kindly spent 3 minutes chasing it around with a whip loose in the school and declaring he'd "sold it anyway".... ;) so we were hastily on our way after thanking him for his time.

The first one -

16.3 TB mare (rode like a far smaller horse oddly enough) had raced only a couple of times as a 3yr old. What suprised me is she's more of a jump racer stamp and is far larger than the usual flat horses?
Nick Turner has passed on compliments about the mare at an ROR clinic earlier this year - as had JLC (...apparently)

The people's school was TINY - sort of a sandpit in the back garden (Not complaining I'd love on in my backy :D) - but being 5, green still and not a small horse she could pretty much manage to trot round it. So I hopped on.

Right - She curls round the bit dramatically, I didn't touch the reins and she just held herself in this tense way which felt very evasive, grinds her teeth a lot and tosses her head about every now and then. Her walk could be -VERY- nice, she has a lot power tucked up in a fabulous back end and her trot could be nice too. Round the corners she's so unbalenced bless her heart and sort of moterbikes and hasn't been taught the concept of bending round the leg so she sort of shuffles along. I hacked her down to a local stuble field to have a feel for her canter - coar blimey! I've ridden Adv/M warmbloods and not felt that much power and engagement, I literally couldn't sit to the canter, like riding a bionic rocking horse tehe! - She wasn't overly fizzy at all, just did the typical canter sideways malarky on the way back and threw her head about.

I sat in the car with mum and totted up all the pros and cons. This mare needs A LOT of work, I mean normally they start BE PN as 5yr olds and normally start novices during their first year- my feeling is by next year as a six year old this will still need a lot of time to become stronger, more established and grow up a bit so it would be a case of producing her very carefully and slowly. I was initially a bit on the 'maybe not' side of things with all the tension, grinding and tossing but having looked at the mare stood up and listened to my gut (this is an impressive horse to look at as ex racers and TBs in general go) I'm not sure. I'd be immediatley onto the bitting, back in a normal french snaffle, teeth done, back done, new saddle bladiabla.

I fell asleep on the car journey home (don't worry...mum driving) and when I woke found myself ringing the owner and asking her to let me know if she got any offers in the meantime and that I'd arrange to see her again next week when she could get her friends larger school.

So monday it looks to be the final reckoning. Its a lot of work that could be going to go into the horse but her bloodlines are fantastic, she's put together beautifully and I have had a glimer of what she 'could be'.

Truth is I'm crapping myself I'ts going to be the wrong decision as I can only spend 'me money once! Consoling, wise advice needed. Homemade scones, whipped cream with sliced strawberries if you got this far!
 
Sounds to me like you have already made your mind up :) Go with your gut feeling, can you see her being your horse? She sounds nice. Obviously you are looking for something young so whatever you buy will need work. Hope you have lots of fun with her if/when you get her.
 
Haha, its the first one I've seen but then again there isn't much I've seen online I've thought was worth the fuel!

Jeesshh! I dunno...I think I perhaps have made my mind up a bit but I can't get carried away XD I guess the vetting and whether the vet in question thinks this mare will stand up to an eventing career is what my decision hangs on... because if not then its a no go really...

I feel like a yoyo >_<
 
Can I just get the scone? lol

I think if you felt something there, then sometimes it's worth putting in that extra bit of time to reap the reward of something so much better. IMHO I love to work on things and enjoy the feeling when it all works out and they start to go the way you want knowing you were the one that put in all that hard work. Everyone wants to find a diamond and this maybe yours. However, I guess it depends what her attitude is like to schooling and learning etc.
I would also worry that maybe you were some what so shocked by the second horse that you thought the first is the best you could get? Maybe go and look at some more before you make your final choice?
Any chance you could have her on a trail?
Sometimes you have to go with your gut feeling though.... Sorry if that didn't help much :s
 
PeggyPatch said:
I would also worry that maybe you were some what so shocked by the second horse that you thought the first is the best you could get? Maybe go and look at some more before you make your final choice?
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Thankyou, actually I think that could have been part of it and I am looking for others but nothing really cuts it at the moment which is concerning as I have about just over a month until I move down!

Thanks its all helpfull guys! :-D xx
 
BEUnderTheInfluence said:
Haha, its the first one I've seen but then again there isn't much I've seen online I've thought was worth the fuel!

Jeesshh! I dunno...I think I perhaps have made my mind up a bit but I can't get carried away XD I guess the vetting and whether the vet in question thinks this mare will stand up to an eventing career is what my decision hangs on... because if not then its a no go really...

I feel like a yoyo >_<
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yeah, go a couple of times too see her and obviously it depends on what the vetting comes back with. I suppose it is like shopping for a dress, going round hundreds of shops and getting the one you saw in the first shop :p nothing wrong in getting the first one you see if it is the right one.
 
I would want to see her over a jump,loose if she has not jumped ridden yet but an event horse has to jump and it would help if you could see what sort of shape she makes,also her attitude.This would,even over a X pole,make a decision easier for me.
Yes the flat work can be improved,although in my experience curling behind the bit is one of the most difficult things to work through and a tense mare can be tricky.
Often the first one you try is the right one to buy but do try and see several,there are some nice youngsters around at the moment,maybe something unbroken.
 
I completely forgot to mention the jumping..!

I saw her over a xpole in the tiny school and the fact she managed to balence before and after (litterally was the size of a 15m circle) and made a good shape impressed me. This is what I want to get a feel for if I go it again in the week, like you said, jumping is easy to improve but the issues with tension is where the hard work and patience will come in.
 
I always think that you should drive away from a viewing wanting to buy the horse, not drive away convincing yourself to buy it. Which camp were you in? If the owner rang today and said it was sold, how would you feel?
 
Why not ask for a months trial, having agreed the price, insured and vetted. Vettings will require better facilities anyway.
You are looking at a rough diamond, you really can't check on its ability to jump [vital in an eventer of course], based on one or two attempts but you can tell if it has nice paces and decent conformation. Balance and mouthing issues can usually be sorted out, but not in an hours' trial on limited facilities.
You will be aware that this is a major investment, and I don't mean the purchase cost, so you are entitled to take your time, if I were the vendor, I would be glad of someone experienced to take it on, and sort out minor problems, have it shod, balance and fitness improved, even if it is returned, it must be a better horse.
I think that too many people consider racehorses to be small with bad feet and bad habits, sounds as though this one needs time to grow and develop, we don't know why it came out of racing, but I would be contacting the trainer [racing post website].
Please don't try to fit every horse in to the schedules as laid down by BE and others, this horse is not going to be ready to compete at any decent level for a year or so, and look at the age of horses at Burghley, some of the best are in late teens!
Also take the opportunity to ask the YO where you are going if she knows of any nice sorts that might suit you, keep your options open in case this comes to nothing.
 
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SpottedCat said:
I always think that you should drive away from a viewing wanting to buy the horse, not drive away convincing yourself to buy it. Which camp were you in? If the owner rang today and said it was sold, how would you feel?
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Ditto this :D

Reading between the lines, you've made up your mind already, but the fact that she is not 'what you went looking for' is stopping you making the Yes noise outloud :cool:.

She's a lot more work that you expected to end up with, but from what you've said, she sounds like she will be worth it (horses - always a lottery anyway!).

The questions are: will you have the time; and, do you want to spend the time, letting this horse mature and grow up and become the competition horse you want?

Having met a few ex-racers who have been allowed to just be horses and been brought on nice and steady after the end of their racing careers, I'd say it was the way to go, but it demands time and patience.

*takes a scone, says thankees, and goes off to nibble it in a corner*
 
Thanks for the advice everyone. The reason I'm going back this week is to get a feel for its jumping ability loose really and I think perhaps a couple weeks trial could be useful.

I mentioned the BE age equiv to level thing because of the general timespan horses need (obviously not specific to any individual and this changes for every horse) my point being that sort of thing would need to be thrown out the window really.

I'm going from yes to no to yes to know it is so frustrating but thankyou for your advice and perspectives, It all helps balance things out!
 
Ditto SC's comments.

If you're struggling to find nice/suitable horses to view then PM Measles on here. I know that's she has,or just about to, taken ownership of a nice young eventer ;) alongside her other super smart horses.
 
For me, the fact that you're dithering means it is a no. Do not underestimate how hard you will be working as a WP and how little time you will have for your own horse - something as straightforward and with as few issues as possible will mean you get the most out of your time there I'd say. They won't have hours to help you with a difficult horse, and you won't have hours to ride in either. Plus if they offer a chance to compete, will you be fine with seeing other WP (if there are any) out doing BE when you cannot?
 
As a WP, will you get daily supervision? That would be my main question. If so, I'd go for it - she sounds like she's going to be a stunning mare with correct training.

I wouldn't worry about the age thing at all, it's like dressage isn't it - "in theory" 6 year olds should be out competing at Advanced Medium, but in truth, not all do. It's not a problem.
 
BEUnderTheInfluence said:
Haha, its the first one I've seen but then again there isn't much I've seen online I've thought was worth the fuel!

Jeesshh! I dunno...I think I perhaps have made my mind up a bit but I can't get carried away XD I guess the vetting and whether the vet in question thinks this mare will stand up to an eventing career is what my decision hangs on... because if not then its a no go really...

I feel like a yoyo >_<
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My horse of a lifetime was bought cheaply out of a trainers yard, where they said she was the most ignorant thing they had ever seen. At 7, she had taken me to HOYS, where she was in the final of the Working Hunter, I then won a P-T-P on her. After having a foal, she came back and qualfied first time out for the RIHS, where she was 4th . She then went on to event to 2* Intermediate. She was only 16 hands, with a backside like a bus and a big second thigh. She was sprint bred, and I've gone for that type ever since, as they have the engine, and are always very laid back. If this mare gives you a good feeling, then go for it. depends of course, what they are asking for her, as TBs are going for next to nothing.
 
I think you have a bit more time to keep looking! :)
I know a very nice 16h gelding for. Sale, 5 years old lots of ability and potential, has been out competing at PN this year very consistently :) if you want more info pm me :)

buying a horse is a time consuming procedure so don't rush into buying the wrong one :)
 
SpottedCat said:
For me, the fact that you're dithering means it is a no. Do not underestimate how hard you will be working as a WP and how little time you will have for your own horse - something as straightforward and with as few issues as possible will mean you get the most out of your time there I'd say. They won't have hours to help you with a difficult horse, and you won't have hours to ride in either. Plus if they offer a chance to compete, will you be fine with seeing other WP (if there are any) out doing BE when you cannot?
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Good points. Mind you I dither about everything because I am so conscious of how long it took to scrape the funds together and how wrong things can go. Its not neccesarily a 'probem' horse, just needs producing properly.

The other two girls aren't really competative and one is sharing one of the 4* horses thats permanently off with a tendon injury which limits it to small things which still I think is a great opportunity. It wouldn't bother me producing this horse slowly if I had something at the end worth the effort but I guess there is no fool-proof way of knowing what you're gonna get!
 
I would video it next time and if you can send it to your future employer,they should then be able to give an opinion that would be invaluable.I am sure they would be happy to do this for you as you will be in their yard to learn and having a suitable horse will make their job easier.
 
If you are like the mare and are prepared to work through her issues then from your post it sounds like you are sold! And she does sound lovely.
Also being a WP for a good rider sounds like the perfect place to take a 'challenging' horse!

Remember even if they pass the vetting there is no stopping them from killling themselves the next day in the field so even if you are not certain she is perfect if she ticks enough boxes to want to take a punt go for it!

Beau was the first and only horse we went to look at when we moved to Aus, only one that sounded reasonable from the add & inital phone call. He was lovely to handle on the ground and moved well. Sure there are days I'd happily send him off for glue he has been and still is a pleasure to own. And we never regretted that grand.
 
QR Sounds to me like you are putting pressure on yourself to get something to take with you to your new job? I know with a new job (and moving too?) you might not have as much time to look as you do now, but is it not better to find the right one than make the mistake you fear? I guess all I'm saying is don't put unnecessary additional pressure on yourself because of deadline that's of your own making.

Having said all that, the mare does sound like she's promising and if you can get the support and help you might need with her, it could work out well.
 
go for it! if she passes the vetting of course, she sounds like she matches your description perfectly! you will get so much satisfaction out of doing it all yourself, throughbreds are great! so intelligent and versatile! hope you do whats best for you!
 
she sound lovely. it also depends on your budget, and if at the top end of it could you get a horse of her quality with more education for the money?

When I viewed my current horse, I walked away telling my friend he was just way too green as I was recovering from a badly fractured ankle. Friends response was but 'what did he do wrong?' He is far better behaved than the one you have been riding the last 8yrs :p So I went back next day, tried him again and bought him BY FAR THE BEST decision, he is fab !!!!

The one I had 8 yrs I knew as soon as I saw him. However he was extremely hard work the whole 8 yrs I've had him, whereas new lad is so easy!!
 
It depends on how much money you have. If you are on a budget you usually have to compromise on something and it depends if you are willing to accept the compromises on this one or not...
If not, then you either have to save up more money or go with one that has different compromises. Maybe a horse that's more advanced in it's training and a bit less sensitive and less fussy with it's mouth ect but one that maybe doesn't have as much raw ability?!

I don't know it's up to you. If you are worried maybe spend a week or two more looking within your budget to see what else is available and then make your mind up?
 
I've got one who's a little older than you want (7) but is doing BE90 at the mo and could easily come out at PN in the spring and Nov by the end of next year. She needs a competent rider to be competitive (but could be ridden by a novice/numpty - they just might not get the best out of her). Nice paces, won BD.
If you wnated something to compete immediately you could do worse... ;)

When I go to view a horse I say one of three things on the spot: 'no', 'yes' or 'I'll ring you in the next 24hrs'. If it's the last option I invariably end up saying no. Now that the shoe's on the other foot and I'm selling I realise how rare my decisiveness is!
 
How much is she?

I agree with Gamebird - I am fairly decisive and have never yet needed a second viewing - go with your gut.

I also think the point someone made about how you would feel if she was sold before the seconbd viewing is a really good one - would you think *****, or oh well, plenty more fish.....
 
With regards to Gamebird - I only have two responses - yes or no!
The only time I walk away is if it is not for the correct money. I love haggling.
 
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