To Insure Or Not To Insure?

cowgirl16

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OK - I know this has been done to death - but I'm having a bit of a wobble. Policy runs out on 9th July. Been insured with these people (NFU) for donkey's years. No claims. Premiums increase each year. Had a chat with them last year and reduced insured value of horse, which reduced premium a fraction. Been trawling the interweb for quotes - makes my policy look good value! but - it's going to cost me £56 per month which I could do with out spending. I have a couple of credit cards - not huge credit limits on them - but the two combined amount to the vet's fee cover on the policy. My sensible brain is telling me to cancel the policy, and if the brown stuff hits the fan, pay with the card. Soppy side of brain is panicking. Got liability cover with BHS, so don't have to worry about that. Don't do much with the boy now - haven't competed for ages - hack occasionally - he's mostly a field ornament. I've always had him insured, and the thought of having no insurance fills me with dread. Tell me I'm stupid please?
 

Pearlsasinger

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Could you put at least part of the £56 in a bank account- and know that you have the cc available as well? If you could 'grow your own' insurance, you wouldn't feel that the premium is wasted money, as it feels now when you have made no claims. I think that you do have to be sure though that if something happens the day after your cover is cancelled, you do have some way of paying any vet bills.

We stopped insuring ours when we struggled (and gave up) to get a 'loss of horse' payout after a sudden illness and vet saying that pts met BEVA guidelines. We are quite firm that we wouldn't want to put them through colic surgery, or anything that involved protracted box rest. We do know that we could pay vet bills if needed for both dogs and horses. Insurance premiums for that lot would be astronomical.
 

splashgirl45

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i stopped insuring mine when nfu put the price up as i had claimed for some lameness and so those legs/feet were excluded. she had cushings and i had already decided that i wouldnt put her through any invasive procedures or lengthy box rest and if she got colic i wouldnt have the op anyway because of the long recovery. i just used my cc for any vets bills and tried to put the amount of the premium in a separate account...
 

paddy555

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OK - I know this has been done to death - but I'm having a bit of a wobble. Policy runs out on 9th July. Been insured with these people (NFU) for donkey's years. No claims. Premiums increase each year. Had a chat with them last year and reduced insured value of horse, which reduced premium a fraction. Been trawling the interweb for quotes - makes my policy look good value! but - it's going to cost me £56 per month which I could do with out spending. I have a couple of credit cards - not huge credit limits on them - but the two combined amount to the vet's fee cover on the policy. My sensible brain is telling me to cancel the policy, and if the brown stuff hits the fan, pay with the card. Soppy side of brain is panicking. Got liability cover with BHS, so don't have to worry about that. Don't do much with the boy now - haven't competed for ages - hack occasionally - he's mostly a field ornament. I've always had him insured, and the thought of having no insurance fills me with dread. Tell me I'm stupid please?

why do you want to insure? would you put him through colic surgery, if so then I guess you need insurance. If he went lame would you want lots of scans, work ups, visits to specialist vets etc or would you be happy to turn him away for a while and let him rest?
£56 pm is £672 pa. Is he a terribly accident prone horse or, in all honesty, is nothing much likely to happen in the next year or so, if at all?
Every horse can have an accident but only you can consider how likely it is and how much treatment you would want. (before putting him out to rest where he is ATM)
If you cancel the insurance I would however make sure you save the £56 pm in an account you cannot touch. No insurance and not saving the premium is very risky.
None of mine are insured, I don't have sleepless nights and I prefer it as I am in control of the vets and we don't need permission from the insurance company.
 

teddypops

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£56 per month is not much in the grand scheme of things. I would continue to insure as you just don’t know what is going to happen.
 

Littlebear

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I wouldn't ever insure again but I do have savings higher than the value of what the insurance would pay out in an emergency situation. Over at least 20 years I haven't had anything happen where I would have used insurance, everything that's happened has been a few hundred so over 20 years if I had paid £56 that's over 13k saved (as long as you do put the money away instead). When I did have insurance I just felt that every penny of the possible allowed claim was rinsed unnecessarily at times and all treatment was at the mercy of the insurer, I wouldn't want to be in that position again. Plus the extremely whimsical way exclusions are added on put me off.
I put the money into premium bonds so I am not tempted to touch the money on a whim.
 

welshcobabe

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I also gave up with the NFU after it went up around 4 years ago I have direct debit into a savings account and I have got a healthy balance in there now so if it is needed, the trick is not to dip into the pot ! which I have managed to do :)
 

The Fuzzy Furry

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Just remember that the BHS liability insurance is an insurance of last resort.
Basically, it means if you have any other insurance that could cover 3rd party (often found on house insurance for example) then the BHS would direct you to the other insurance company 1st.
 

marmalade88

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it's the luck of the draw, that's why it's called insurance. I'm with NFU and my premiums are a fair bit higher than with other insurers but they pay out without quibble. Has a freak field accident in Feb, emergengy operation and 5k later it's more than paid for itself. Personally after having an accident like that I would never be without it now. However if i'd never had an accident or had an older horse who I wouldn't put through an op etc then I'd cancel it.
 

Hormonal Filly

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It depends I think.. if hes a field ornament I personally would not insure. Depends how long you've owned them and what their history is like! It is complete luck of the draw..

One gelding of mine is insured, hes a nut job in the field and in general, done a suspensory and NFU have paid out £5,000 on one claim already. I have insured him for the last 2 years paying £400 a year so better off than I would be if not insuring.

We have 2 dogs, one that was insured for 4 years (so must of spent thousands on insurance) and NEVER claimed so we cancelled her policy as it went to over £100 a month (yes, mad!) and touch wood never had any issues since.

Our other dog has been insured since 12 weeks old. I nearly didn't insure him and was going to use a CC incase required but decided to insure last minute. He has now just turned 2.. hes nuts and injury prone, we have claimed 4 times already within those 2 years (one claim at 6 months old) and they must of paid a good £5000 out within 2 years and I've paid about £600 in policies..
 

mustardsmum

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Harry Hall now offering a basic vet fee insurance for £75 for external and visible injuries which might give you peace of mind without the financial cost? Insurance relies on your insecurities about the "what if" senario - hundreds of years ago I worked in insurance and they really were more interested in making money than anything else - I am sure that hasn't changed much! I have both BHS and Harry Hall membership so I have 3rd party cover and personally, this is the most important for me after a horse of mine ran 3 miles loose on the road years ago. Luckily no one but me was injured (I'd fallen) but having 3rd party cover for the "what if" is my area of particular insecurity. As Pearlsasinger suggests, put the money to one side. It will soon mount up to cover any emergencies. Having had horses for longer than I care to imagine, I have never had any big vets bills (should I say that, have I just been lucky?!) This year, I have had my daughters horse with a tendon injury, which I have paid to have treated, lots of scans etc and I had one with lami in the past. I still think I have spent less on the vets fees for both these cases in the last three years than had I paid £56 a month for the last 30 years......
 

Leandy

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I also haven't insured for years and have saved thousands. I truly believe the perceived benefits of insurance are largely illusory. It doesn't adequately cover ongoing or repeat conditions as they will be excluded on renewal anyway. It is extremely difficult to get them to pay full insured amount on loss of use and you still have the ongoing costs of keeping the horse which are the major expense of horsekeeping. Vets fees become much more reasonable if you tell them you aren't insured - expensive diagnostic procedures are often "nice to have" not "must have", simple rest cures many ills without investigating and monitoring at significant cost. You may well lose control over treatment, and in particular the decision to say enough or carry on, in having to defer to the insurance company. Theft is exceptionally unlikely. For more minor illness and injury cases you will likely claim back less than your premiums have cost. I can only see a real use for insurance for one off catastrophic injury or illness cases and how common are these at all, in particular those where the horse has a good prognosis and future to look forward to afterwards? OP, if you are either prepared to pay a large bill or are at peace with making a tough decision in the extremely unlikely event of a catastrophe, go with your gut instinct and don't renew.
 

Dru

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I maxed out 3 claims last year totalling £10,500. Unfortunately I had to pay a further £10k on top of that but for now I wouldn't be without insurance. If too many things were excluded then I probably would cancel.
 

dollymix

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I maxed out 3 claims last year totalling £10,500. Unfortunately I had to pay a further £10k on top of that but for now I wouldn't be without insurance. If too many things were excluded then I probably would cancel.

Mine hasn’t been quite so high as yours but easily went over the £5k max claim amount. (If your horse is hospitalised for more than a day or so it quickly adds up and most insurance don’t cover the hospital livery).

I thank my lucky stars the insurance paid out the max amount so I only had another £4K to find myself personally!

I do have a credit card but there’s no way it would have paid the final bill if the insurance hadn’t covered the largest part of my bill.

I don’t think I’d ever take the risk of not insuring mine.
 

Bernster

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Hmm in your situation I’d also think about bhs plus the Harry hall type basic insurance. Other companies might offer similar. It’s for the big stuff really like colic surgery etc and if you can afford it or wouldn’t go to that expense, it does make more extended insurance look unnecessary.
 

milliepops

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very personal decision and ultimately it boils down to your personal circumstances and perception of risk.

I now only insure the ones I would operate on. The retirees would be pts if they had an injury that required expensive or lengthy treatment. My competition horse would get every treatment option on offer! And the newbie has to prove himself a bit before I decide ;)

It's not just colic surgery to consider, one of mine had surgery for a soft tissue injury a few years ago. If I hadn't been insured, I wouldn't have been able to pay for that. pretty much as soon as they are admitted for a GA you are several £k down.
 

ihatework

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Ask yourself the question how far are you wanting to go to a) save the horse and b) throw everything medically possible at them .... that then drives how likely I am personally to insure.

The big spends are:

Intensive investigations to diagnose and treat mild lameness - these are often only pick up in loss of performance situations and probably not quite as relevant in a happy hack.

Colic - always best to have a strategy in your mind about whether to operate or not. PTS is a very realistic decision in these cases, post op success isn’t guaranteed and relapse is frequent.

Penetrating wound / joint flush / external stuff - can rack up, usually worth treating but you can get policies that cover this type of thing quite cheaply.

Internal stuff not lameness related - these can be a right pita and very expensive.

There are policies that offer limited cover, and as you don’t have savings and would be reliant on CC this might be something to consider.

I’ve found KBIS to offer the best choice in limited cover policies - you can choose a variety of vets fee limits, a variety of excess and a variety of cover options (accident, catastrophe, with/without colic, full) - but first worth thinking very carefully about what you would/wouldn’t want to treat irrespective of insurance
 

splashgirl45

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i have always made my decisions on quality of life for the horse and never money based. i have credit cards with very large limits so i know i could cover any treatment required. my cushings horse always had the best treatment ..i am very much a person who would pay with the credit card and worry about paying it later, poss not the most sensible attitude but it worked for me....it also depends on what you feel is acceptable re treatment combined with the age of the horse and any existing problems...
 

Annagain

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I stopped insurance when the boys turned 17 - the cost shot up and cover shot down and both had exclusions on the things that would be most likely to cause them problems. I've paid £100 a month into an account ever since then. I set myself some rules - that I would only dip in when I would have claimed and that the vet must treat them as if they are insured and not skimp because they're not. There was only one occasion when I was going to dip in - a £2k bill for a stay in horsepital, bone scans and treatment - but a couple of weeks before I was due to pay I had an offer for 0% on purchases on a new credit card so I chucked it on that instead and paid it off at £80 month over 2 1/2 years. If you have a decent credit rating I'd definitely recommend this, it worked out so much better for me.
 

AFB

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I don't insure as front legs were excluded and I probably wouldn't go down the colic surgery route.

I've saved about £3500-4000 in premiums and paid out about £400 (of which I would have had to pay the excess anyway) - so to date it's paying off for me. I just hope that lasts!
 

Shilasdair

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I gave up insurance (or perhaps the insurance companies gave me up) a few years ago. I found that, although insurance covered things up to a limit, it only really worked for one year. As soon as renewal time came around, everything was excluded. So given the limits in both time and maximum cover, I decided to save money instead.
For my two, I have been putting £100 monthly into a savings account - the trick is not to take money out for your annual vaccinations/small things, but to treat it as you would an insurance claim. It only really works if you are self disciplined. I also have credit cards with high-ish limits which would be able to cover any treatment anyway. I've already got around £4k in the savings account.
I only wish I'd done this earlier....
 

JoannaC

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None of our animals are insured although I did think i'd have the new one insured but when I heard the premium I decided against it. Would rather keep the money in a savings account.
 

cowgirl16

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Many thanks for all your responses and wise words! I've bitten the bullet and cancelled the policy. I've always been of the opinion that insurance wasn't worth the paper it's written on - but then I've never been in the unfortunate position of having to make a big claim! (hanging on to wood saying this!). I wouldn't put the boy through colic surgery, nor anything that required extensive confinement. If problems arise in the future, then we'll deal with it. Now - all I have to do is decide whether to insure the dog - hmmmm …..
 

Antw23uk

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I dont insure. I would stick anything suitable on the CC or pts for things like colic surgery. Everything else would be based on quality of life and if i had the money. I certainly wouldnt cripple myself financially for an animal! (sorry sounds harsh but thats how it is!)

OP scare tactics are part of what insurance companies do. They plant seeds of doubt to scare you into thinking the worst will happen if you dont insure ..... its a terrible tactic. Dont fall for it!
 

The Trooper

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I've been considering taking out new insurance for Bonnie and Belle recently, but I am also having the same thoughts about whether to bother with insurance... It's tricky and quite daunting to be honest!
 

Slightlyconfused

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I am thinking of not insuring my spotty, he has had a huge op two years ago, he has a few exclusions and I would put half the amount into a savings account for a just incase.

But I already know what I will and won't do any more.

My other one only came sound for his RH suspensory after he 8 months feild rest, the box rest he did not improve at all.

It's a scary thought but this Friday I will cancel it, I think.
 

Slightlyconfused

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Many thanks for all your responses and wise words! I've bitten the bullet and cancelled the policy. I've always been of the opinion that insurance wasn't worth the paper it's written on - but then I've never been in the unfortunate position of having to make a big claim! (hanging on to wood saying this!). I wouldn't put the boy through colic surgery, nor anything that required extensive confinement. If problems arise in the future, then we'll deal with it. Now - all I have to do is decide whether to insure the dog - hmmmm …..

Now my dog is insured with pet plans lifetime policy and thank goodness I did as she needs injections everymonth that cost more than the policy over the year, a lot more.
 

paddy555

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Now my dog is insured with pet plans lifetime policy and thank goodness I did as she needs injections everymonth that cost more than the policy over the year, a lot more.

my horses are not insured but my GSD 18 months has always been insured with pet plan lifetime with the max amount they will pay. The logic is that for the horse treatment is more limited due to it's size, the fact I would probably not do colic surgery etc etc but with a dog you can put it in the car and have it at the other end of the country in less than a day to a specialist vet who will no doubt cost the earth. Also in my breed there is more that can go wrong but could be treated if sufficient money was thrown at it.
 
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