To poo pick or not to poo pick?

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magicmoose

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Normally the answer to my own question is yes, but....

I have two horses on 20 acres, shared with a variable number of sheep. (depending on how many have escaped) The horses have a regular worm egg count and are wormed accordingly.

The field is insanely steep so pushing a wheelbarrow up and down is nigh on impossible and it is also too steep to harrow. Would you persevere to try and poo pick the field?
 
God no! We had two on 9 acres over winter, and although I started off with the best intentions re poo picking, I soon gave up! It was too much space, too steep and too high up (we are +1000 feet, so was very windy and very cold most of the winter). They came off it a few weeks ago and the sheep have gone on, and when we worm counted a month ago they both had very low counts. With that much land, you'll soon be losing the will to live!
 
I'm an obsessive poo picker and poo pick my huge field daily - but twenty acres?! Not a chance!! Will they be on it full time or is this just summer grazing?
 
magicmoose said:
Normally the answer to my own question is yes, but....

I have two horses on 20 acres, shared with a variable number of sheep. (depending on how many have escaped) The horses have a regular worm egg count and are wormed accordingly.

The field is insanely steep so pushing a wheelbarrow up and down is nigh on impossible and it is also too steep to harrow. Would you persevere to try and poo pick the field?
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No way would I poo pick you won't need to with the sheep and that much space.
 
I have five horses on 20 acres and no sheep to clear up after them and I don't poo pick. When they are on the smaller fields (2 - 5 acres each) then I do poo pick.
 
Thank you! I feel much less guilty now. :p

The horses are out 24-7. I'm trying to keep on top of the areas that they hang out regularly, under the trees and by the gate, but my wheelbarrow ran away down the hill again this evening and I had a sense of humour failure!

Work is getting manic for our event in August, and I'm running out of hours in the day.
 
No way, what would be the benefit?
The sheep will deal with any potential worm problem and the soil will benefit from the nitrogen - poo-picking isn't all that it's cracked up to be!
 
I only poo pick my side paddock (1/2 acre) when they are in the big field (8 acres) I leave them to it. Had the horses and my donkey worm counted last month, horses were less than 50 the donkey was 800 so she got wormed and kept in. I also graze my sheep in with them through the autumn.
 
I am obsessive over poo picking. My 2 are on about 5 acres and I do it every day. In the winter we had 5 on about 10 and I still cleared it twice a week. I can't help myself. I love to see a spotless field :(
 
I used to poo pick in summer - 9 acre field, but sectioned in summer with horses on 3.

This year, in Spring, I went along to a talk by a vet who does a lot of research with the Glasgow University Vet School.

He explained about worm resistance to wormers, and that the population of wormer resistant worms was increasing. This would ultimately lead to a situation where none of our existing wormers will work.

He went on to explain that obsessively poo picking makes this situation worse. Take a normal field, with a few well managed horses pooing away. The horses take in worm eggs, the worms mature and the horses poo out eggs which are deposited on the ground. Of these worms, some are wormer resistant, and some aren't. The eggs get taken into the horse again, let's say in a 5% resistant and 95% non resistant ratio. At this point, you administer a wormer. All the non resistant worms are killed and excreted. The resistant worms meanwhile lay eggs that are deposited on the pasture. Because you're poo picking, you pick up all the poos, but the horses still contain wormer resistant worms, some of which are transferred to the grass unless you're literally walking behind your horse picking it up as they poo. But now, the ratio is more like 20% resistant, 80% non resistant ratio... and increasing with each wormer cycle. Do you see where it's going?

However, if you don't poo pick, the worms that can be killed by wormer continue to make up a reasonable percentage of the worm eggs on the pasture. Meanwhile, you do a fecal egg count on your horses, find (as is usual) that most of them have a low worm burden, but one or two have higher counts. You then worm the ones with higher counts, knowing that your wormer has a reasonable chance of being effective.

So there you have it :) Vet sanctioned argument for not obsessively poo picking - by poo picking, you are creating a super race of worms, resistant to all known wormer :p

I can see a few flaws in the argument, but because I want a solid, scientific excuse not to break my back poo picking 9 acres of steep hillside, I'm happy ;)
 
I poo pick Boyos fields clean whenever I go up (his owner poo picks them clean too when we are not there), but v interesting post Brightbay..... I like it! A scientific excuse NOT to poo pick :D :D
 
Copperpot said:
I am obsessive over poo picking. My 2 are on about 5 acres and I do it every day. In the winter we had 5 on about 10 and I still cleared it twice a week. I can't help myself. I love to see a spotless field :(
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Me too I have four on four acres most of which is flat but I still poo picked the big field that had a hill in it when that was their grazing but it is only me being anal about it I would tell anyone else not to bother:D
 
It's that bad that if I'm walking back up the field with the last full wheel barrow and I see them do another one, I have to go back and get it :) my OH wishes I was as anal about keeping the house clean :) but unfortunately for him it's just horses and their stuff which has to be nice!
 
I do on the summer field, 4 horses on 3 acres,so do it at least every other day.
The 6 acres in the winter field, i do of its dry but it gets harrowed along with the other and topped and rolled when its hot then left for 4 -5 months to rest
 
yep me too I even keep the poo picker to hand when the Connie is being ridden as she is a gas and poo machine while she is schooling in the field:rolleyes:
 
Brightbay said:
I used to poo pick in summer - 9 acre field, but sectioned in summer with horses on 3.

This year, in Spring, I went along to a talk by a vet who does a lot of research with the Glasgow University Vet School.

He explained about worm resistance to wormers, and that the population of wormer resistant worms was increasing. This would ultimately lead to a situation where none of our existing wormers will work.

He went on to explain that obsessively poo picking makes this situation worse. Take a normal field, with a few well managed horses pooing away. The horses take in worm eggs, the worms mature and the horses poo out eggs which are deposited on the ground. Of these worms, some are wormer resistant, and some aren't. The eggs get taken into the horse again, let's say in a 5% resistant and 95% non resistant ratio. At this point, you administer a wormer. All the non resistant worms are killed and excreted. The resistant worms meanwhile lay eggs that are deposited on the pasture. Because you're poo picking, you pick up all the poos, but the horses still contain wormer resistant worms, some of which are transferred to the grass unless you're literally walking behind your horse picking it up as they poo. But now, the ratio is more like 20% resistant, 80% non resistant ratio... and increasing with each wormer cycle. Do you see where it's going?

However, if you don't poo pick, the worms that can be killed by wormer continue to make up a reasonable percentage of the worm eggs on the pasture. Meanwhile, you do a fecal egg count on your horses, find (as is usual) that most of them have a low worm burden, but one or two have higher counts. You then worm the ones with higher counts, knowing that your wormer has a reasonable chance of being effective.

So there you have it :) Vet sanctioned argument for not obsessively poo picking - by poo picking, you are creating a super race of worms, resistant to all known wormer :p

I can see a few flaws in the argument, but because I want a solid, scientific excuse not to break my back poo picking 9 acres of steep hillside, I'm happy ;)
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He seems to arguing for a worm burden that consists of resistant and non resistant worms, but overall a higher worm burden in total.

Surely the moment you use a wormer, you are "making room" for more resistant worms?:confused:

Sorry, but I'm not convinced you can give up the poo picking yet.:D
 
Well I have poo picked religously for many years but two horses, twenty acres and sheep, let alone the steepness of the field - no!,
 
mine are in a herd of 11, in the winter up to 60 aches, so we just harrow once a year... otherwise I would have to poo pick as a full time job! currently they are on about 15 aches summer field and in parts its a bit phooey, but as I only have 2 and my friend has 7 of them and doesn't poo pick I'm certainly not!
they can harrow quite un-level fields, none of ours are completely flat
 
Poo pick daily or twice a day in summer on dog walk(poor bored dog). I try to do it in the winter. I bag the poos to take away to an allotment(they can have the worms). BUT if I had a load of acreage like above posters I would not poo pick. In the winter if it gets dire due to weather I will poo pick and dump it on a fenced off section and chain harrow the lot in and leave for about 6-9 months for it to go away! I find the rain washes it in to the ground. But it takes that long for it to truly go and even then I find dried bits of poo.

If I had lots of grazing and could leave a whole paddock for 9 months I would not bother poo picking and just chain harrow the lot. I would like to have some sheep too that sounds ideal. I still think poo picking must keep worm burden down. Wormers are big business too and worm twice a year spring and end of summer.

I would like the luxury of hired help really.
 
He seems to arguing for a worm burden that consists of resistant and non resistant worms, but overall a higher worm burden in total.

Surely the moment you use a wormer, you are "making room" for more resistant worms?

Sorry, but I'm not convinced you can give up the poo picking yet.
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No, he's arguing that most horses seem to have a stable but small worm burden - and if you're already using one of the "intelligent worming" programmes, you will already be skipping them for most worming doses. But some horses (with the same management) come out with high worm burdens, so you target your worming for those ones (whose health would otherwise suffer). So probably a once yearly dose for encysted and tapeworm for all horses, and apart from that only worm if the horse shows a high egg count, which is what I've been doing anyway, although accompanied by poo picking).

He says the science argues that it's better to have horses with a small burden of non-resistant worms, than continue to develop worm resistant worms by worming regularly and collecting poo (he was very very anti the "worm every 6 weeks regardless" worming programmes and said we're going to be in a very bad place in a few years using these). I guess you could say he was saying "it's part of our responsibility to breed worms" :D It's been interesting since I stopped poo picking - the horses have started developing a toilet area themselves, so the poo is less scattered than it used to be.
 
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Copperpot said:
I am obsessive over poo picking. My 2 are on about 5 acres and I do it every day. In the winter we had 5 on about 10 and I still cleared it twice a week. I can't help myself. I love to see a spotless field :(
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^ this I poo pick every day. I hate seeing fields covered in poo. ( people are all for making the bedroom area clean and neat but not their play area
Looks a mess and un cared for.
For small acre age I would always do wheel barrow or tractor and trailer. larger i would use a field vac.


actually 20 acres with small tractor and trailer does not take that long

would not do it with wheel barrow tho . but with our Kubota i would
 
I have a similar set up op - 21 acres with permanent sheep grazing it and sometimes cattle as well. No way am I poo picking that! But I do pick up if I am using a fatty paddock, and sometimes go out with a barrow round the main fields but that's purely for gardening purposes :-)
 
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